Tipping

[JagFarlane]

So, the concept of tipping has been around for a long time. Long enough, that it has become standard practice in this country. And every now and then [particularly in early Dec/late Nov] I see articles come up about it.
Now, I understand certain fields, say, waiting tables for example. Having worked in the restaurant industry, I can attest to servers getting low wages [in '98 ours got $2.50 an hour] due to expected tips. Of course, when I grew up, I remember 10% being the standard, and now it seems 15% is supposed to be the minimum with 20% for decent-good service. And, I've always made it a point to tip a hairstylist a buck or two [most of my haircuts are like $12-15 so $2 I figure is a decent tip].
But now, it seems, everywhere you go, there is a tip jar. Starbucks, for example. Hell I've seen Dunkin Doughnuts with a sign that said not to tip servers, and a tip jar right next to the sign. The December holiday time seems to be the big one. I've seen where you should always tip the doorman at your apt, newspaper delivery people, school bus drivers, teachers, etc etc. Where does it really end?
And its not just an American thing, take for example Japan. Over there, most people aren't tipped. However, back in the old days, it was customary to give a landlord a small amount of money to thank them for letting you live in your apartment. Its become so standard, that over there, besides the 1 months rent deposit, plus 1st months rent, you are also charged 1-2 months rent under that custom.
So, I'm curious to see, with this wide range of people and wide range of jobs here, where you expect to tip, and perhaps even how much.

 

[PublicAffection]

I work in the restaurant industry, and so I will almost always tip my servers (unless service is horrid). I am "bad" at it though because I can't bring myself to tip someone 20% unless they seriously go above and beyond to EARN it. I tend to tip on a scale of 5% for minimal service, 10% for expected service, 20% if they knock my socks off. Part of my problem with tipping the waitstaff up here more than 10% though is that minimum wage is already fucking $8 per hour.

I've never tipped my postal worker, delivery guy, bus driver, etc. I don't get a tip for working my ass off - I get a paycheck. I generally think that those people getting a paycheck don't need a tip.

There is ONE taxi driver who I will tip because he is always on time, and when he's available he's a hoot to ride to the airport with. But generally I don't tip cab drivers either because I'm already paying to ride in their damn car by the MILE.

Tipping is a sensitive subject for me. lol.

 

[JagFarlane]

I work in the restaurant industry, and so I will almost always tip my servers (unless service is horrid). I am "bad" at it though because I can't bring myself to tip someone 20% unless they seriously go above and beyond to EARN it. I tend to tip on a scale of 5% for minimal service, 10% for expected service, 20% if they knock my socks off. Part of my problem with tipping the waitstaff up here more than 10% though is that minimum wage is already fucking $8 per hour.

Hmmm well, for some reason I think restaurants are allowed to pay servers less than minimum wage due to them expecting to get tips. Example: '98 when I worked for Perkins as a busboy, minimum wage was $5.35 an hour. Our servers got like $2.50 an hour, and originally bussers got $3.50 [they're supposed to recieve a cut of a servers tips, but ours were greedy lil people whom out and out refused to. -sigh- which meant many a night watching as some counted out well over $100 in tips, some earning as much as $400-600 a week, whilst a lot of bussers were lucky to break $150 a week, but I digress]

 

[PublicAffection]

Unfortunately, not in Oregon/Washington. At least, not that I am aware of - and we've tracked the minimum wage laws pretty closely.

 

[JagFarlane]

Unfortunately, not in Oregon/Washington. At least, not that I am aware of - and we've tracked the minimum wage laws pretty closely.

-nods- Interesting point then

 

[PublicAffection]

-nods- Interesting point then

I love your AV by the way. Lol. (You do glow... you just don't know it)

 

[lesbiaphrodite]

I tip 15% generally. I tip restaurant wait-staff, cabbies, hairdressers and hotel maids.

 

[Katyusha]

Warning: Long Post

I always tip according to the service I receive, regardless of the fact that many who customarily receive tips are paid half minimum wage, and I couldn't really give a crap if it's "customary" to tip a certain amount or not. I will not give someone a 15% or higher tip if they give me lousy service. Now, an example of what I consider lousy service: we ate dinner once at a Denny's in Fairbanks. Our server forgot two of our side dishes, and when we asked her where they were she mumbled some type of apology, went back into the kitchen, bs'ed with people back there for a half an hour, and then brought our dishes out to us COLD. When we complained about them being cold she actually said, "Well they sat there for awhile, what do you expect?"

She received $1 as her tip, on a $25 check.

I do NOT hold servers responsible for my food being burned, raw, or otherwise cooked improperly though (I know a lot of people who do). If my food isn't prepared according to what I asked for, I'll either deal or I'll let the server know and have them bring me another plate. Any server who does that quickly (with or without an apology on behalf of the kitchen) will likely receive a little extra in their tip.

I know that many places have a tip-sharing pool; servers are required to share their tips with the bartenders, buspeople, hosts, etc. At some places all tips are shared with all people who serve/host/bus/tend bar, at others all servers' tips are shared with other people, but not between themselves. I've had people get on my case regarding low tips because of that type of thing but my feeling is that if the staff wants more tips for the pool, they should talk to the one who gave me bad service. In addition, I feel that someone who needs their tips to get by needs to worry about how their doing their job instead of expecting their customers to simply give them the customer 15%.

Okay, so with all of that out of the way, I've seen a couple of articles about tip jars recently. A lot of those are put out by college students who are making minimum wage and want a little extra to help them pay for their expenses. One article mentioned how effective that type of thing could actually be, while another mentioned that we already tip our restaurant servers, bartenders, hair dressers, etc., and we should not be expected to tip all the cashiers at all the places we go to as well. I tend to agree more with the latter because in places like fast-food chains, retail stores, etc., the people who have these tip jars out are essentially only cashiers.

But more than that, it's the feeling of guilt that I see these jars put on people, because when many people see that they see someone who's struggling financially and they want to help. These days, more and more and more of us are struggling financially. I don't get so much as a 1% commission for delivering all the cars I deliver each day, not from the store owners, not from corporate. The people who work at the store I'm based at don't get tips and people would be highly offended if they asked for them, but those two, despite all the work that they do there, haven't even received a raise in 3 years and are both on the verge of losing their houses not to foreclosure, but because a raise is the only thing that will keep them from having to make a decision between the gas needed to get to work and the food they need to put on the table.

I dunno. I wish business owners and corporations treated us better, because ultimately that's what all of this boils down to; "customary" tipping is going up because living expenses are going up and wages aren't keeping up, and because wages aren't keeping up people who DON'T normally receive tips become pressed to ask for them. Then you have people like me whose gut reaction to that second part is, "Why should I be expected to tip you? I don't get tips at my job. I'm having money issues too. I can't afford to tip every single person who asks for one."

 

[Katyusha]

Hmmm well, for some reason I think restaurants are allowed to pay servers less than minimum wage due to them expecting to get tips.

They are. Under federal law, establishments who employ people who make regular tips are allowed to pay those people no less than half minimum wage. As far as I know, most states' labor laws are in accordance with that as well.

ETA: I wrote this post before I saw the one about Oregon and Washington.

 

[3113]

I've never tipped my postal worker, delivery guy, bus driver

I think there's some confusion here about what is "tipping." I consider tipping something you do on the fly--you get a service, you give a little something extra as a thank you to someone who isn't being paid much, and you feel deserves a little extra for their good effort. Like a waitress, a barrista, a bellhop, taxi, etc.

A postal worker or a newspaper delivery man, on the other hand, doesn't get a tip, but they may get a gift of money during the holiday time which customers can give them to show their appreciation for a year's worth of good service. I don't know if this once-a-year-gift can properly be counted as a "tip." And I've never heard of a teacher or bus driver being tipped--unless it's a bus that, like a taxi, is specially chartered to deliver you from one place to another usually with luggage.

Tipping is never mandatory, but you're going to see a lot more of it because we're heading into bad economic times and people are going to be struggling to make ends meet on what they're being paid. I would, myself, rather that everyone got a decent wage, but we in the U.S. really like things cheap and fast--so tipping will remain. It's still a better practice than in some countries where it's not tipping, it's a bribe and if you want any kind of service at all you'd better pay. At least in the U.S. you'll still get the service even if you don't tip--abet, in some cases, you might not get it as well.

So far as I know, the best person to always tip is the bartender. Do it upfront with, say, a twenty, and he'll be attentive to your drink orders for the rest of the night.

 

[matriarch]

Tipping in the States is one of my big bug bears......I wasn't aware of the whole 20% tipping thing. In UK, people tip what they feel like, be it nothing or a lot, and we don't add it on to the bill, we usually leave cash on the table.

(be patient, I'm getting to my point).

Back in 2005, when staying P-town for a holiday and L&V's commitment ceremony, I had booked a table for the evening of the ceremony, at a lovely restaurant, asked them to obtain a cake for the meal, iced with their names, and champagne. The owner was happy to do this, all we had to do was turn up at the appointed time, and eat a delicious meal. We had a great time, the wine was delicious, the chocolate cake was orgasmic, and when the time arrived, I paid the bill, and not being aware of this tipping thing, I just added on what I thought was a reasonable amount, handed over my card, and left the restaurant.

Then the fun began, we were standing around outside, in the evening sun, lighting cigarettes, revelling in the pleasure we were all feeling, when suddenly the owner comes running out, shouting at me, grabs me, and proceeds, in public, in front of my dinner guests, to ball me out for not paying the 'normal tip'. WTF?? What normal tip? I was so stunned (no-one in the UK would ever do that), I let him rant for a few seconds, before asking him to not do this in front of my guests, and moved to the side. He proceeded to regail me with the effort he'd gone to (actually cylcled up the street myself to get the cake), asked me if the service wasn't satisfactory. I was so confused and asked him what was the problem. He said it was 'normal' to pay 20% tip on top of the meal....ye gods, another fifth on top of what I'd already paid? I responded that that was not the way we did in the UK, and I wasn't aware of this 'rule' (that's the impression he gave me).

By now, I was so embarrassed.....and very angry.....I just wanted out......he responded with something along the lines of well you're not in the UK, and this is how we do things here.

The rest of the group had begin to notice that something was up, and were moving in, so I merely amended the tip to the 'required' amount, told the guy that unfortunately for him, that was the last time I would ever eat in his restaurant, and would be telling all my friends to do the same.

I have to add, this is the only time I've ever been chase outside the restaurant, and berated in public because of not paying the 'required' tip.....but it's something I've never forgotten, and never forgiven.

The man was an arsehole, an arrogant, rude, arsehole. And I haven't eaten there again, even during another trip back to P-town.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

 

[PublicAffection]

I think there's some confusion here about what is "tipping." I consider tipping something you do on the fly--you get a service, you give a little something extra as a thank you to someone who isn't being paid much, and you feel deserves a little extra for their good effort. Like a waitress, a barrista, a bellhop, taxi, etc.

A postal worker or a newspaper delivery man, on the other hand, doesn't get a tip, but they may get a gift of money during the holiday time which customers can give them to show their appreciation for a year's worth of good service. I don't know if this once-a-year-gift can properly be counted as a "tip." And I've never heard of a teacher or bus driver being tipped--unless it's a bus that, like a taxi, is specially chartered to deliver you from one place to another usually with luggage.

Tipping is never mandatory, but you're going to see a lot more of it because we're heading into bad economic times and people are going to be struggling to make ends meet on what they're being paid. I would, myself, rather that everyone got a decent wage, but we in the U.S. really like things cheap and fast--so tipping will remain. It's still a better practice than in some countries where it's not tipping, it's a bribe and if you want any kind of service at all you'd better pay. At least in the U.S. you'll still get the service even if you don't tip--abet, in some cases, you might not get it as well.

So far as I know, the best person to always tip is the bartender. Do it upfront with, say, a twenty, and he'll be attentive to your drink orders for the rest of the night.

Off-topic... but WHERE can I get a keyboard like the one in your sig line? I covet it.

 

[jomar]

Tipping anyone outside the food industry annoys me, including hair stylists and bag handlers. I'm with PublicAffection on this, paycheck-wise.

 

[3113]

Off-topic... but WHERE can I get a keyboard like the one in your sig line? I covet it.

[threadjack] That is from the stunning "steampunk" computer and you're not the only one who covets the thing. Wait till you see the entire computer that goes with it! It was amazingly and, lovingly crafted by the Steampunk Workshop.

I doubt such lovely, cool items are ever going to be mass produced, but if they were, I'm sure they'd fly off the shelves. Alas, such keyboards/computers are usually one-of-a-kind items created by artists for lovers, friends or e-bay [/threadjack]

 

[PublicAffection]

It's gorgeous. Ok. Back to tipping.

Sorry for the threadjack Jag.

 

[JagFarlane]

Tipping in the States is one of my big bug bears......I wasn't aware of the whole 20% tipping thing. In UK, people tip what they feel like, be it nothing or a lot, and we don't add it on to the bill, we usually leave cash on the table.

(be patient, I'm getting to my point).

Back in 2005, when staying P-town for a holiday and L&V's commitment ceremony, I had booked a table for the evening of the ceremony, at a lovely restaurant, asked them to obtain a cake for the meal, iced with their names, and champagne. The owner was happy to do this, all we had to do was turn up at the appointed time, and eat a delicious meal. We had a great time, the wine was delicious, the chocolate cake was orgasmic, and when the time arrived, I paid the bill, and not being aware of this tipping thing, I just added on what I thought was a reasonable amount, handed over my card, and left the restaurant.

Then the fun began, we were standing around outside, in the evening sun, lighting cigarettes, revelling in the pleasure we were all feeling, when suddenly the owner comes running out, shouting at me, grabs me, and proceeds, in public, in front of my dinner guests, to ball me out for not paying the 'normal tip'. WTF?? What normal tip? I was so stunned (no-one in the UK would ever do that), I let him rant for a few seconds, before asking him to not do this in front of my guests, and moved to the side. He proceeded to regail me with the effort he'd gone to (actually cylcled up the street myself to get the cake), asked me if the service wasn't satisfactory. I was so confused and asked him what was the problem. He said it was 'normal' to pay 20% tip on top of the meal....ye gods, another fifth on top of what I'd already paid? I responded that that was not the way we did in the UK, and I wasn't aware of this 'rule' (that's the impression he gave me).

By now, I was so embarrassed.....and very angry.....I just wanted out......he responded with something along the lines of well you're not in the UK, and this is how we do things here.

The rest of the group had begin to notice that something was up, and were moving in, so I merely amended the tip to the 'required' amount, told the guy that unfortunately for him, that was the last time I would ever eat in his restaurant, and would be telling all my friends to do the same.

I have to add, this is the only time I've ever been chase outside the restaurant, and berated in public because of not paying the 'required' tip.....but it's something I've never forgotten, and never forgiven.

The man was an arsehole, an arrogant, rude, arsehole. And I haven't eaten there again, even during another trip back to P-town.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Yea there are restaurants that, if you bring in a large party, require a percentage of tip given in the check. This is usually due to needing more than one server, and its so the restaurant can divy out the tip to the servers and avoiding fights. Its also usually a decent sized [15-20%] tip.
The 20% thing has really been something I've seen more of. Usually by servers blogging about why it should be pushed up to that amount.
On the other hand, that person whom chased you down, just did a massive no-no in the industry. As you pointed out, you've never eaten there again.

One other I often wonder about is, recently having ordered pizza, I looked at the check and realized there was a "delivery charge". Wtf? I can't say I've seen this before. So now, not only is the pizza seeming to have gone up in cost, but I have to pay a delivery charge, and a tip!? Ugh, I think I'll stick with DiGiornos.

 

[Xelebes]

I only tip restaurant waiters and cooks. Everything else I expect all expenses and wages to be accounted for in the agreement of exchange.

I work in the food industry, but I get paid 9 bucks an hour as a waiter so tips don't really matter that much, they're a bonus.

 

[only_more_so]

Then the fun began, we were standing around outside, in the evening sun, lighting cigarettes, revelling in the pleasure we were all feeling, when suddenly the owner comes running out, shouting at me, grabs me, and proceeds, in public, in front of my dinner guests, to ball me out for not paying the 'normal tip'

In some states that's actually illegal. I found this out recently when a server came out of the restaurant where some coworkers and I had dined. The server was just returning a credit card that had been left behind, but one of my coworkers explained that it was actually illegal for a worker to follow a customer out of a restaurant. The reason is to prevent them from harassing you about leaving a bad tip.

Anyway, I generally follow the traditional tipping guidelines. 15% for good service, 20% for exceptional service and less for passable or poor service. I only rate the server on his/her service and not the quality of the food. A couple of times I've had to send back food and the manager came over, apologized and comp'ed my meal. In that case I tip based on what I would have paid, since the server still did all the work.

At bars, it varies a bit more. For one the drink price makes the math more challenging. A $4.75 should merit about a 75 cent tip, but when all I have are dollars and a quarter... I also tend to be more generous with the tip on the first couple of drinks, and at places I frequent more often.

When I got haircuts, I usually tipped a dollar or two if he/she did a good job paid attention to what I asked for, etc.

At strip clubs, if I'm sitting at the rail, I generally tip at least a dollar a song. More if they pay particular attention to me, or impress me. If I'm further away, it'll be a couple of dollars a set if she impresses me, pays attention to me, or remembers me from a previous time at the club. If I get a dance, I'll tip for good service (no, not that kind) but will absolutely give no tip if they say or imply they are entitled to a tip on top of the fee.

 

[Stella_Omega]

The rest of the group had begin to notice that something was up, and were moving in, so I merely amended the tip to the 'required' amount, told the guy that unfortunately for him, that was the last time I would ever eat in his restaurant, and would be telling all my friends to do the same.

That's the time when you really want to hold firm! Let your group hear this asshole's story, and let them tell you that the guy is lying.

I would say that, for the cake, and its personalised icing, yeah-- 20%. BUt the owner had no reason to yell at you like that.

I remember when I was part of a working party that finally got a chance to break for lunch. The waiter wanted to practice his comedy skills all over us. We were quiet, exhausted, and each time he came over, there was a visible flinch which he seemed not to notice.

At the end of the meal, our boss left one penny on the table.

he came running out as we were walking down the sidewalk, and my boss went back. The guy showed him the penny, saying; "Are you sure you can afford this?" and my boss said; "Thank you," and took it back.

Nowadays, I wouldn't let it go on that long. I would tell the waiter our situation, and ask him to be kind to a bunch of exhausted people. Give him a chance to earn a decent tip. after all.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

My mother was a waitress, I worked as a busboy/waiter, and I've been part-owner in a restaurant.

I dont care for the system. But lotsa people do. Tips put money in your pocket NOW! If you have a good shift your pockets jingle with gold. Owners like it because problem employees terminate themselves with the bad tips. Also, if the server is good and management ignores the kitchen problems, the server leaves. Tips send a message to management about the kitchen or the bar.

I think tips serve as a feedback mechanism.

 

[glynndah]

I waited tables and bartended. I am very critical about the service and reward good service very generously. Average service gets an average tip.

 

[CharleyH]

So, the concept of tipping has been around for a long time. Long enough, that it has become standard practice in this country. And every now and then [particularly in early Dec/late Nov] I see articles come up about it.
Now, I understand certain fields, say, waiting tables for example. Having worked in the restaurant industry, I can attest to servers getting low wages [in '98 ours got $2.50 an hour] due to expected tips. Of course, when I grew up, I remember 10% being the standard, and now it seems 15% is supposed to be the minimum with 20% for decent-good service. And, I've always made it a point to tip a hairstylist a buck or two [most of my haircuts are like $12-15 so $2 I figure is a decent tip].
But now, it seems, everywhere you go, there is a tip jar. Starbucks, for example. Hell I've seen Dunkin Doughnuts with a sign that said not to tip servers, and a tip jar right next to the sign. The December holiday time seems to be the big one. I've seen where you should always tip the doorman at your apt, newspaper delivery people, school bus drivers, teachers, etc etc. Where does it really end?
And its not just an American thing, take for example Japan. Over there, most people aren't tipped. However, back in the old days, it was customary to give a landlord a small amount of money to thank them for letting you live in your apartment. Its become so standard, that over there, besides the 1 months rent deposit, plus 1st months rent, you are also charged 1-2 months rent under that custom.
So, I'm curious to see, with this wide range of people and wide range of jobs here, where you expect to tip, and perhaps even how much.

Shit, LOL - at first I thought this was going to be the age old NA tradition of tipping cows. I was bracing myself because while a bit humourous (in movies), I've never participated on the grounds that it was a totally cruel practice. Still, not tipping, especially a person who serves you food, is equally cruel. Cab drivers, hair stylists, bellboys, the hotel cleaning lady (whom I always tip just so they don't go through my shit - lol) all get the appropriate minimum wage, if not more. Restaurant food servers (not catering servers) get less than minimum wage in North America, if not less. I have known certain restaurants in high-end areas like Avenue Road in Toronto, Ontario, not to pay their wait staff anything more than the price of cleaning their uniforms. Why? Because of tips. Fair? Well they make $500.00 or more in tips a night. Fair? Hardly. They are shafted!

Here's how the tip-outs work: Waiter/waitress gets below minimum wage, relies on tips to survive, but he/she must pay the other, minimum wage or way above minimum wage employess out of his/her tips at the end of the night: busboy 5%, the bartender 10 to 15%, the kitchen 10 to 15%, the host/hostess/maitre'd 10 to 15% and sometimes (although it is illegal) the house 10 to 15% of their tips on cash out. Fair? Not to the server who must act as host, entertainer and takes the brunt of complaints and deals with all sorts of assholes.

My parents have owned a restaurant for 24 years, and I can say that YES, Mat, for a large party taking most of the space and time in a restaurant, they should be levied a tip fee. Why? Because a table of 20 = 5 hours of time for that server who can't turn over more tables because of that one table, usually demanding (lol - I suppose it's like turning tricks), a table of 10 = 3 hours, a table of 4 = 2 hours and a table of 2 = 1 and 1/4 hours.

I had a disagreement with my sister-in-law not too long ago. They (35 of them) were celebrating a birthday party in a restaurant. The party decided to bring in a birthday cake to the restaurant. She was not a happy camper that the restaurant added a serving fee of $1.00 per person. I felt that $1.00 per person was cheap considering that they brought their own food and that the staff had to stay one or two hours more just to serve what a restaurant could have provided. In no other service industry would you be able to cut your price by bringing your own stuff. Example: would a hair stylist cut the price if you brought your own Henna? Would a cab driver give a lower fee if you brought your own gas?

 

[PublicAffection]

Shit, LOL - at first I thought this was going to be the age old NA tradition of tipping cows. I was bracing myself because while a bit humourous (in movies), I've never participated on the grounds that it was a totally cruel practice.

Don't knock it 'till you've tried it.

 

[CharleyH]

Don't knock it 'till you've tried it.

lol

 

[JagFarlane]

Here's how the tip-outs work: Waiter/waitress gets below minimum wage, relies on tips to survive, but he/she must pay the other, minimum wage or way above minimum wage employess out of his/her tips at the end of the night: busboy 5%, the bartender 10 to 15%, the kitchen 10 to 15%, the host/hostess/maitre'd 10 to 15% and sometimes (although it is illegal) the house 10 to 15% of their tips on cash out. Fair? Not to the server who must act as host, entertainer and takes the brunt of complaints and deals with all sorts of assholes.

It does depend on the restaurant. As a busboy I was initially to be paid below minimum wage, as stated before, but supplemented with a small portion of the tips. Our servers basically threw a fit at this, and in the end management saw more fit to give us minimum wage, but not a potion of the tips.

Though in their defense, you forgot to add that they do have to report all tips made for tax purposes.