Congress to Repeal Law of Supply & Demand!

[keeblercrumb]

Ah, in full denial of the peace and love generation that long preceded either Slick Willie or Dubya...and you are wrong, there is no help on the way from either direction.

You're gonna enjoy the fruits of the hippie generation for years and years to come, hunker down boobsie...

ami

I thought us hippies were doing okay, until YOUR guys took over the joint.

And as my old yippie hero Phil Ochs penned...

" I know that you were younger once, 'cause you sure are older now".

Love,

-Boobsie

 

[Carnevil9]

I'm afraid that Amicus is correct. The current economic woes all come from the price of a barrel of oil, and THAT comes from lack of drilling and lack of nukes in the USA. And THOSE come from the unwise prohibitions of the peace+love generation who did their best to legislate us back to the stone age. Well, here it comes......Carney

 

[neonlyte]

I'm afraid that Amicus is correct. The current economic woes all come from the price of a barrel of oil, and THAT comes from lack of drilling and lack of nukes in the USA. And THOSE come from the unwise prohibitions of the peace+love generation who did their best to legislate us back to the stone age. Well, here it comes......Carney

No... the current economic woes come from greedy bastards selling houses to people who couldn't afford the payments, then selling on those contracts to more greedy bastards who forgot to check the substance of the mortgagees. If I was a banker down 4bn$ on sub-prime's I'd trade in commodities to force the price up. Oil has to be bought to keep industry turning, it's a margin game on the way up, and down manipulated with the assistance of oil majors and kingdoms who keep oil reserve figures under close wraps. The recently discovered Brazilian field is reportedly bigger than Saudi's declared reserves, but drilling 3miles to reach it is an expensive business. The oil industry has a vested interest in forcing prices higher, bankers have a vested interest in assisting them, that way their development loans are secure.

 

[keeblercrumb]

Soviet Era Condom

I'm afraid that Amicus is correct. The current economic woes all come from the price of a barrel of oil, and THAT comes from lack of drilling and lack of nukes in the USA. And THOSE come from the unwise prohibitions of the peace+love generation who did their best to legislate us back to the stone age. Well, here it comes......Carney

Yeah right.... If the price of oil was the only problem we had, we would not have any problems.... And all with Mr. Oil and Gas himself as President. Where was HIS dedication to finding alternate sources of energy?


The quazillions we have spent on the Iraq debacle have nothing to do with all this..... I suppose. And the tax cut freebies for his billionaire friends.... all irrelevant...

The "lack of nukes" comes from Chernobyl and Three Mile Island scaring the living crap outa folks, if you don't remember. Not exactly an irrational conclusion on the part of the public, I would think.

That and the minor little detail of quazillions suddenly being required to find a hole to bury the waste in.....and the hemoraging of money spent on building the damn things when we discovered that this radiation shit was.... oh my God.... dangerous.

And, in one of those ironic little twists, you may remember the entire nuclear industry that you all are pining for... was CREATED ENTIRELY BY FEDERALLY FUNDED REASEARCH! Where is theanalogous "green" investment in research in altenative energy sources now???? Oh yeah.. George liked oil better.

It had zilch to do with greenies running around with signs.....

Europe was doing just fine all these years paying the same price Americans are only now beginning to pay.

The problem with the price of oil is just old fashioned supply and demand by the booming economies in the East.... AND, of course, the oil producing cartels manipulating supply (even Saint Rand was against that!).

Frankly, I do not see the problem with not fucking up the Santa Barbara coast just because the Russians and Saudi's want to cut back on Production.

Here's a suggestion! Let's use THEIR oil all up before we use ours!!! Cool, huh?


Sorry... gotta run.. the Germany/Turkey game is on....

-KC

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

The way I see it, the Arabs and Alaska are shipping all the oil we really need in this country. However, because of "slack demand" the oil companies claim they've slowed down production at the refineries. How odd. One person in the oil business claims that "supply is lagging demand" so prices go up. Another says "suppies are adiquate but demand is sagging" so prices go up.

Can they really have it both ways?

 

[colddiesel]

The current oil situation is based on:-

1 The historical fact that America has developed a wonderfully sucessful economy based on cheap energy especially oil which it has used profligately.

2 Third world demand has increased exponentially especially in India and China. The third world also uses its enegy wastefully being over reliant on cheap labour.

3 Government obstructionism and especially green politics has interfered with sensible oil and uranium exploration. They have also prevented the proper development of Nuclear Power (except in France) and supported some absurd initiatives eg. ethanol from corn.

4 In the short to medium term (up to 7 years) Demand will be much more elastic than Supply. Most of the chatter including here, has been about increasing supply. However most economies have done precious little about reducing demand. They are about to, drastically. It will be entirely driven by consistently higher prices for the forseeable future. The irony now is that in order to increase the supply of energy it will be neccessary for us to maintain and perhaps increase energy prices.

5 There will be severe side effects. The price of basic food commodities will continue to increase sharply. Inflation will increase quickly especially if irresponsible central Bankers continue to increase the money supply through cheap credit.

6 Politicians and governments will blather and blather. Commentaters including us will develop their favourite conspiracy theories :- "it was the banks - no it was the Arabs, the Russians - no the lefties, perhaps the neo cons. Perhaps it was the sorcerers in the futures market or even the wicked oil men".In the wash up none of these factors will be decisive or even important .The laws of supply and demand in a global economywill grind out a new future and that will be shaped as always by prices, higher prices.

Conclusion . We are in for a bumpy ride with significant economic social and political consequences.

 

[amicus]

1 The historical fact that America has developed a wonderfully sucessful economy based on cheap energy especially oil which it has used profligately.[/QUOTE]

~~~

Well, CD, when I was a young lad, gasoline was under twenty cents a gallon, but wages that I worked for, in the fields, was fifty cents an hour.

I didn't really feel profligate or wasteful, when I used the change in my pocket for gas to go out on a date to the drive-in movie.

'Americans' in general are far from wasteful, a way of life for most, has always been under a very tight budget.

I suggest, that perhaps a lot of the enjoyment of life, following the Depression of the 30's and the wars of the forties and early fifties, which included buying cars and appliances and building homes without great regard to conserving what appeared to be an endless resource, was more a sigh of relief that a free society had overcome the worst of all fears and survived.

Just why that 'baby boomer' generation, children born of world war two veterans and survivors, turned away from prosperity and sought to return to nature, I confess, I do not fully comprehend.

Perhaps it is a natural sequence of events; perhaps an aberration, again, I do not fully understand why an entire generation turned away from modern progress and sought the solace of pastoral passivity. Then again, my choice of words implies that I do indeed have at least a theory.

Being aware of the impending societal changes due to this backward looking generation, I suspect it behooves most of us to turn away from whatever sense of life the 'boomers' embraced and look elsewhere for our future and that of our children.

Just a thought...


Amicus...

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

1 The historical fact that America has developed a wonderfully sucessful economy based on cheap energy especially oil which it has used profligately.[/QUOTE]

~~~

Well, CD, when I was a young lad, gasoline was under twenty cents a gallon, but wages that I worked for, in the fields, was fifty cents an hour.

I didn't really feel profligate or wasteful, when I used the change in my pocket for gas to go out on a date to the drive-in movie.

'Americans' in general are far from wasteful, a way of life for most, has always been under a very tight budget.

I suggest, that perhaps a lot of the enjoyment of life, following the Depression of the 30's and the wars of the forties and early fifties, which included buying cars and appliances and building homes without great regard to conserving what appeared to be an endless resource, was more a sigh of relief that a free society had overcome the worst of all fears and survived.

Just why that 'baby boomer' generation, children born of world war two veterans and survivors, turned away from prosperity and sought to return to nature, I confess, I do not fully comprehend.

Perhaps it is a natural sequence of events; perhaps an aberration, again, I do not fully understand why an entire generation turned away from modern progress and sought the solace of pastoral passivity. Then again, my choice of words implies that I do indeed have at least a theory.

Being aware of the impending societal changes due to this backward looking generation, I suspect it behooves most of us to turn away from whatever sense of life the 'boomers' embraced and look elsewhere for our future and that of our children.

Just a thought...


Amicus...

These people don't know about slaving in the berry and bean fields for $0.06/lb, Ami. They don't let the kids do that anymore (unless you are mexican).

 

[amicus]

Hi, Jenny....I suppose if I have to, I can admit that age plays a role, for of course it does. My children and grandchildren are growing up in a world of computers, the internet, the Iphone, they have 'Blackberries' devices.

So much is different, I had my first job at age 8 and my first car at age 12, nowadays you need a work permit and a birth certificate at 15 or 16, I think.

And yes, I remember .06 a lb for green beans and strawberries by the flat, that bought my school clothes.

Then again, Jen, these kids on the line making Burrito's & Big Mac's, running a computer driven register and such, know things that were not available to a generation before even television.

I am pleased that my kids did not have to spend ten hours under a hot sun picking berries and beans just to buy school clothes...but then, things gained, things lost I suppose...

Ami...

 

[SweetPrettyAss]

The way I see it, the Arabs and Alaska are shipping all the oil we really need in this country. However, because of "slack demand" the oil companies claim they've slowed down production at the refineries. How odd. One person in the oil business claims that "supply is lagging demand" so prices go up. Another says "suppies are adiquate but demand is sagging" so prices go up.

Can they really have it both ways?

I think the biggest part of our imported oil comes from Mexico.

Yea, they can do that. If they were more honest, they would say something like: "We can charge you anything we please, because we have what you need and there's no other way you can get it. If you don't like it, try pissing in your gas tank and run on that."

 

[colddiesel]

1 The historical fact that America has developed a wonderfully sucessful economy based on cheap energy especially oil which it has used profligately.[/QUOTE]

~~~

Well, CD, when I was a young lad, gasoline was under twenty cents a gallon, but wages that I worked for, in the fields, was fifty cents an hour.

I didn't really feel profligate or wasteful, when I used the change in my pocket for gas to go out on a date to the drive-in movie.

'Americans' in general are far from wasteful, a way of life for most, has always been under a very tight budget.

I suggest, that perhaps a lot of the enjoyment of life, following the Depression of the 30's and the wars of the forties and early fifties, which included buying cars and appliances and building homes without great regard to conserving what appeared to be an endless resource, was more a sigh of relief that a free society had overcome the worst of all fears and survived.

Amicus...

For every dollar a US citizens spend per head on Energy in 2008
a Japanese spends 41cents
a Brit spends 47cents
a German spends 46 cents
and a Frenchman spends 44 cents

(source Financial Times UK)

The only first world country which comes close in energy use per head to the USA is my adopted home, Australia and we don't even have cold winters! (I don't know Canada figures)

Therefore I suggest from the standpoint of 2008 America's continued use of oil at the present level would definitely be profligate and I agree with your second paragraph above insofar as I am pretty certain that given current prices Americans will soon start to use their ingenuity to reduce their energy consumption rapidly. Australians will do the same but we will have minor impact because there's only 20 million of us.

Post 1945 America adopted a policy of cheap energy whilst other countries elected to raise revenues on it through heavy taxes. By doing so The US economy advanced more rapidly. The US attitude to Oil consumption was appropriate then but is not now.

My basic point is that Joe Public has a much bigger and more immediate benefit for the next 5 to 7 years by addressing the Demand rather than the Supply issues for Oil.

Regards, Colddiesel

PS My first employment was also by a farmer. I agreed to stack some bales for him for one pound, about $3 then. When I went to collect He said "you can bugger off and be grateful for the lesson." I wasn't grateful but I did learn from it.