First major-party African-American presidential nominee

[shereads]

For those who have dismissed the Obama win as historically inconsequential - and the few here who dismiss racism as a significant influence in modern American life:

VOICES OF COLOR
By Eli Saslow and Jonathan Mummolo
Washington Post Staff Writers
Thursday, June 5, 2008; Page A01

Elation Is Tinged With Incredulity

They watched on television as Barack Obama basked in a standing ovation and read off his thank-you list. They listened to him claim the Democratic nomination for president. They sat glued to the news for hours, as if repetition might make the scene more real.

And even still, some of Obama's most ardent supporters went to bed Tuesday night wondering: Could this really have happened?

The final reality of Obama's victory over Hillary Rodham Clinton, predestined for weeks, still struck Obama's supporters -- young and old, white and black, the believers and the skeptics -- with the sudden weight of history.

For some black Americans, the impact of his win reached into the improbable, registering as a shock inconsistent with a lifetime of experience. Adrian Cheeks, 45, from Falls Church, had considered Obama's candidacy a "chance in hell -- snowball." Mildred Taylor, 80, from Los Angeles, was convinced she'd never see a black president in her lifetime.

Reveling in Obama's historic achievement, a California man planned a cemetery visit to share the news with a dead relative. Others taped Obama's picture to their front doors. Many considered the possibility of a black president with a woman for his running mate and marveled at how drastically the world had changed.

"I'm amazed that we've grown up," said Crystal Hill, 31, an African American who lives in Northwest Washington. "We've still got a long way to go, but we're getting there."

For Tamim Rahim, 21, of the Chantilly area, Obama's ability to fight through one of the most bruising nomination battles in history, combined with the historic obstacle of his ethnicity, proved the candidate's mettle.

"Quite honestly, when Obama first started, I didn't think he was going to go too far," said Rahim, who is of Afghan descent. "I know 100 years ago no one would have thought an African American would get this. . . . He went through a lot of difficult obstacles. . . . I think he's made his point. In my mind, he's won his battles."

But for some, looking ahead to Obama's remaining battle against John McCain, skepticism still lurked: Could this really happen again?

"It does say something about how far the country has come along," said Cheeks, an information-technology support technician. "Now comes the real test. You still have a core group of Americans who will not vote for him because of the color of his skin."

Many of Obama's younger supporters chose a more hopeful outlook. In downtown Washington, Becky Ogunwo, 20, handed out brochures about environmental issues and gushed, "We're a much more diverse country in our thinking now." Donte Frazier, a 32-year-old local cook, talked about "a moment of hope." Keisha Brown, 21, from Chicago, whose mother has a nightgown with a picture of Obama on it, said, "Everything will be different now."

To the Rev. Steve Merki, who is white, Obama's victory was more than just a racial milestone. "I think he certainly represents a new generation and new ideas," said Merki, 50, of La Plata.

In California, Marlon Morton felt deep vindication over a heated argument he had with his aunt three decades ago. He said a black man could become president; she said he was dreaming.

"I'll never forget it," said Morton, 45. "She said, 'You know what, Marlon, you'll never see a black president in your lifetime.' And I said, 'There's going to be one.' "

Morton planned to visit his aunt's grave sometime this week to spread the news. He plans to make a return trip in November, too. "It hurts me that she doesn't get to see it," he said. "I'm going to tell her: 'There's a brother who might be president.' "(my boldface - sr)

Many of Obama's supporters spoke with a bit more caution. Yes, they said, the successful primary effort had instilled them with new faith in the American electorate. But they remained hesitant to trust it.

Ed Lyles, a 58-year-old African American, went to get his hair cut yesterday in Inglewood, Calif. He sat in the barber chair and offered a political prediction: "I still don't think it's going to happen," he said.

"Why do you say that?" replied the hairstylist, I.D. Stringer, 60.

"We're just as much ready for a black president as we are for Hillary as vice president," said the Vietnam War veteran.

"Well, he's got my vote," Stringer said.

"He's got my vote, too," Lyles said.

For Obama's supporters, the mere taste of history made them antsy for more. They said Obama has built the perfect coalition to defeat McCain: young Americans, black Americans, college-educated Americans -- all voting in record numbers, and all inspired.

"Obama was very successful with bringing in so many new voters," said Maury Tobin, 39, a white communications consultant from Port Tobacco, Md. "If they came out and voted for him in the primary in record numbers, they're going to come out again in the general. That's going to put some states in play for the Democrats that they never imagined would be there."

And if all goes according to plan, Obama supporters said, there will be a lot more history to celebrate.

Mildred Taylor, the 80-year-old from Los Angeles, contacted her great-grandchildren yesterday. They're too young to know what she knows, but she still wanted to make sure they realized that something historic had happened.

"You can do anything you want to do," Taylor told them. "This has opened up the door, so it's up to you to walk through it."

source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/04/AR2008060404175.html

 

[elsol]

"It is not about race!" They all scream in unison, yet the thread title belies the very fact that it is about race and gender. The liberal egalitarian left has finally justified emancipation of both women and blacks.
Amicus...

Why does emancipation of women and black need to be justified?

Emancipation -- The act of setting free from the power of another, from slavery, subjection, dependence, or controlling influence.

Since I have stated my thoughts before, it will come as no surprise when I say that neither women or blacks, following their entrance into the affairs of men, have earned the right to speak with a rational voice.

If black men aren't men... then what are are they?

 

[sr71plt]

Why does emancipation of women and black need to be justified?

Emancipation -- The act of setting free from the power of another, from slavery, subjection, dependence, or controlling influence.



If black men aren't men... then what are are they?

Good questions. But why even bother to respond to such tripe?

 

[keeblercrumb]

Perhaps, but my broader point remains. The 1964 Dem party you are "proud" of was a marriage of convenience between southern segregationists and New Deal economic liberals. And there's no gainsaying the fact that 80 percent of Repubs voted for the bill.

There are many individuals and groups that deserve pride and honor, but U.S. political parties as such are not amongst them.

My how the worm turns...... You are exactly right about who the Democrats were in 1964.

And you are also right about those soon to be extinct "Rockefeller Republicans"... they were the last generation of the Party of Lincoln.. I know it well... my father was one. While opposed to the socialist New Deal, he was even more steadfast in the struggle for Civil Rights... but all that came crashing down in 1964 with the Goldwater candidacy.... (a child of my father.. had 18 year olds been able to vote then.. I would have voted for AuH2O myself.... silly boy that I was).

The only thing that depressed my father more than the LBJ landslide.. was that for the first time in his life "his" candidate only carried the deep south.. in the final days of the pre-voting rights south. He hated that he was associated with the segregationist dixie-crats who had morphed into Republicans.... and would, in the years to come, take over the Party's heart and soul.

I would have thought it was indisputable that today's Republican "neo-cons" are the direct descendents of that transformation.... The white south being their core constituency.

And for the Democrats? It was also the time when they were able to expunge that ugly side of themselves....and the selling out the rights of man for political expediency.

But then... how soon we forget....

-KC

 

[S-Des]

For those who have dismissed the Obama win as historically inconsequential - and the few here who dismiss racism as a significant influence in modern American life:

I certainly don't think it's inconsequential, and haven't really seen that expressed here. I think the word significant is a trap, because it could mean virtually anything. There are historical inequities that have led to limited opportunities for some, but if you're saying at this point in time the color of your skin is more important than your level of education or how hard you work, then yeah I would disagree (at least where I'm from).

If Obama getting this far (or if he happens to get elected) can help erase some of those stereotypes, then I'm happy for the people it helps. As to the wailing and gnashing of teeth about how he'll never get elected or if he doesn't become president then it will never happen, that's just utterly silly (and fairly narcissistic). You have a young, inexperienced Senator from a corrupt state who happens to have the most Liberal voting record in the Senate and has a list of friends that make even his allies cringe.....yet he's still in first place in the polls. Anyone who looks at that and thinks there won't ever be another black person able to get this far is seriously invested in being a pessimist.

 

[keeblercrumb]

I would think it is our universal hope here that this distinction (African-American Presidential candidate) will pass into historical trivia and become a quaint and curious factoid to our next generation as say... JFK's being Catholic was in my teen years..

And for those who weren't there, JFK's religon WAS a huge issue in that campaign.... silly as it sounds today. After all, this would mean the Pope was going to be running the country!!! Luckily for all of us, Pope Pious mostly slept through those years... so we will never know!

 

[S-Des]

I would think it is our universal hope here that this distinction (African-American Presidential candidate) will pass into historical trivia and become a quaint and curious factoid to our next generation as say... JFK's being Catholic was in my teen years..

And for those who weren't there, JFK's religon WAS a huge issue in that campaign.... silly as it sounds today. After all, this would mean the Pope was going to be running the country!!! Luckily for all of us, Pope Pious mostly slept through those years... so we will never know!

Amen! Of course, that will lead to the next group of "controversial nominees" (i.e. Gays, Muslims, Atheists, Actors......oops, we checked that one off already! ). This argument will go on long beyond this election, or our lifetimes. As I said before, the next big one I'm looking forward to is the first minority Republican to run (to see if he's treated fairly by the Left, or if they only will support minorities with the "correct" philosophy). Bobby Jindal looks like a major rising star and is someone Conservatives are in love with already. Assuming he doesn't get involved in any political scandals and doesn't lose his taste for politics, he'll be a leading candidate in 8 - 12 years.

 

[colddiesel]

Dead Popes

Unsurprisingly sleepy, seeing that PiusXII died in 1958. John XXIII was then Pope until June 1963 when he was replaced by Paul VI

 

[keeblercrumb]

Unsurprisingly sleepy, seeing that PiusXII died in 1958. John XXIII was then Pope until June 1963 when he was replaced by Paul VI

Extremely sleepy! Okay... you got me! I was raised a Prebyterian.... so I was predestined to forgetting my popes.....



Luckily, John was pretty cool as I remember....

-KC

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

So much ignorant bullshit here. It's like a committee of schizophrenics trying to create a political consensus of reality.

People voted for LBJ because he stigmatized Goldwater as hot to get a Vietnam war going. LBJ was the real Dr. Strangelove because he escalated the war to a major military conflict.

Republicans were the real engine that made civil rights a reality. Almost every Southern congressman opposed civil rights, and every one of them was a Democrat. If you check Goldwater's record he was pretty moderate about most issues.

 

[keeblercrumb]

So much ignorant bullshit here. It's like a committee of schizophrenics trying to create a political consensus of reality.

People voted for LBJ because he stigmatized Goldwater as hot to get a Vietnam war going. LBJ was the real Dr. Strangelove because he escalated the war to a major military conflict.

Republicans were the real engine that made civil rights a reality. Almost every Southern congressman opposed civil rights, and every one of them was a Democrat. If you check Goldwater's record he was pretty moderate about most issues.

Well.... yeah... that's what I said... absent the insults of course. Those "Civil Rights" Republicans are long gone..... And Goldwater moderate on those issues? And why again, for the first time ever( I believe, not counting reconstruction), did he carry the deep south?

You are right about LBJ, ironically, painting Goldwater as the "pro-war" candidate (uhhhh which he was, of course); the infamous atomic bomb TV spot add during the campaign. That is one of the reasons he carried the rest of the country...

But again... this was about the association of Republicans with Civil Rights... and why the civil rights radical "Party of Lincoln" has disappeared into history and was replaced by "conservatives" opposed to anything that smacked of progress in human affairs...

And if you are going to agree with me, at least say so!! Although frankly, I like it much better when you don't.

Like my Dad hated having voted with the Segregationist Deep South in 1964.

-KC

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

KEEBLER

In 1964 my hometown elected a black councilman. He was the first black elected to anything in this state. We were as Southern as anyone. The school produced a minstrel show in 1960.

You dont understand Southerners. In the Southern mind its perfectly okay for a black to live in your home but not okay for them to live next door. Its okay for a black to be on the city council but not okay that he should go to your school. A black can eat off your china using your silver, but eat in the kitchen.

Southerners, you see, are not racists theyre clannish, because most of us come from Scotland. Who your clan is is who you are. The whole racism thing is really ethnocentricity. Blacks play for the wrong team.

Read Florence Kings book about Southerners.

 

[keeblercrumb]

KEEBLER

In 1964 my hometown elected a black councilman. He was the first black elected to anything in this state. We were as Southern as anyone. The school produced a minstrel show in 1960.

You dont understand Southerners. In the Southern mind its perfectly okay for a black to live in your home but not okay for them to live next door. Its okay for a black to be on the city council but not okay that he should go to your school. A black can eat off your china using your silver, but eat in the kitchen.

Southerners, you see, are not racists theyre clannish, because most of us come from Scotland. Who your clan is is who you are. The whole racism thing is really ethnocentricity. Blacks play for the wrong team.

Read Florence Kings book about Southerners.

Hmmmm. You have reminded me that we too, in my Rockefeller Republican Upstate New York town high school, also had Minstrel Shows at that time... Even stranger was that my school was probably 20% African American and they took part in those shows as well.

That... and "Amos and Andy".... were not as mean spirited as they might now appear... We were just ignorant as to how extraordinarily insulting they were.

At the time, we were all appalled by segregation in the South.. And the opposition to voting rights... etc.., But in our naivety, we just did not appreciate our OWN hypocracy on the subject.

Damn. Maybe you are right. We WERE neo-cons back then, too.

As in his classically Politically Incorrect song (perhaps defining the genre)

"Red Necks", Randy Newman wrote:

Last night I saw Lester Maddox on a TV show
With some smart ass New York Jew
And the Jew laughed at Lester Maddox
And the audience laughed at Lester Maddox too
Well he may be a fool but he's our fool
If they think they're better than him they're wrong
So I went to the park and I took some paper along
And that's where I made this song

We talk real funny down here
We drink too much and we laugh too loud
We're too dumb to make it in no Northern town
And we're keepin' the niggers down

We got no-necked oilmen from Texas
And good ol' boys from Tennessee
And colleges men from LSU
Went in dumb. Come out dumb too
Hustlin' 'round Atlanta in their alligator shoes
Gettin' drunk every weekend at the barbecues
And they're keepin' the niggers down

CHORUS
We're rednecks, rednecks
And we don't know our ass from a hole in the ground
We're rednecks, we're rednecks
And we're keeping the niggers down

Now your northern nigger's a Negro
You see he's got his dignity
Down here we're too ignorant to realize
That the North has set the nigger free

Yes he's free to be put in a cage
In Harlem in New York City
And he's free to be put in a cage on the South-Side of Chicago
And the West-Side
And he's free to be put in a cage in Hough in Cleveland
And he's free to be put in a cage in East St. Louis
And he's free to be put in a cage in Fillmore in San Francisco
And he's free to be put in a cage in Roxbury in Boston
They're gatherin' 'em up from miles around
Keepin' the niggers down

CHORUS

Oh I hope we are past all that now, but something (Or maybe it was an Amicus rant) tells me we aren't.

-KC

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

KEEBLER

I dont think any of it was insulting. For every AMOS & ANDY there was a LIL ABNER or SNUFFY SMITH or BEVERLY HILLBILLIES ridiculing poor Southern Whites. On AMOS & ANDY the bad guys were always white.

 

[keeblercrumb]

KEEBLER

I dont think any of it was insulting. For every AMOS & ANDY there was a LIL ABNER or SNUFFY SMITH or BEVERLY HILLBILLIES ridiculing poor Southern Whites. On AMOS & ANDY the bad guys were always white.

You may have a point (now THAT is a shock!) about poor southern whites... but here is the thing: clean him up, buy 'em some shoes, put a suit on him, and he is no longer treated differently. African descendents, as with other racial minorities, could not escape the very real, pernicious discrimination in the work place and in society with which they were confronted.

Humor is a funny thing(sic). Racist ridicule and stereotypes DID effect everyday opportunity for those being ridiculed. It is a HUGE difference in the grand moral scale of things.... and how it was felt by them.

There is a similar thing I learned from a marriage counselor many years ago. Many if not all couples began their relationship built on gentle (or not so gentle) teasing. Early on, it was funny and humor is the cornerstone to many young relationships. But after a few years, you have heard the jokes about your funny nose. And after the first 1,000 times one hears it, particularly in the presence of others, it just flat hurts. Ironically, as relationships become stressed like this, the partner frequently resorts to even more of it…. Because it was the “humor” that brought them together and they instinctively think it will make the other person laugh.

But they aren’t laughing anymore.

And so it was with the minstrel shows.. and Andy and Amos. African Americans quit laughing.

-KC

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

KEEBLER

Everyone quit laughing. America is too uptight to laugh at itself since about 1968. Its still cool to laugh at Rednecks, though.

Something I noticed working with blacks: If the black person is from Africa or the Caribbean they come across totally different from African-Americans. And they get treated differently. They dont have the chip on their shoulders.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

Personally, JamesB... I loved Watson's take on black culture in his interview on the DNA basis of intelligence.

He said there is no DNA evidence found that shows blacks any less intelligent than other groups. But they need to stop studying basketball and start studying the things that really matter in making a better life for themselves and their families.

That's not racist. It's true.

John and Bobby Kennedy enforced integration in the the south back in the 60's. LBJ made segregation illegal. The predominatly white congress passed "Affirmative Action" legislation.

Now 30 years later it's been turned around. Blacks (here, at least) feel entitled. They work the system to their benefit at the expense of the whites, whine "Racist" whenever they don't get their way and blame whitey for the murders, drugs and whores in the black community.

It's frustrating for those of us who have supported them for years to see what it's come too.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

JENNY

Sure! The Feds made a deal with African-Americans, like Art James? used to make with poor white women on tv; you can take this fist full of cash OR take your chances on whats behind Door #3. That is, you could get a mansion in Beverly Hills or a year's supply of lard.

Blacks chose the fist-full of cash. Later the Feds upped the ante to low-level, white-collar government jobs. Again, they could take their chances in the market OR be a minor bureaucrat with a steady check.

 

[amicus]

Going to make another small effort to open an eye or two concerning the voting habits and records of women and blacks as an indicator that both groups have yet some maturation to take place before they qualify as worthy of participating in the democratic process.

One expects the Union voter to always vote overwhelmly for the advocates of big government, the Democrats, mere pigs at the trough, why bite the hand that feeds you?

One expects the Catholic voter to always vote in the majority for the advocates of big government, Catholicism is a weaker variety of a communal existence and a command society, they flourish under strong leadership and direction ala Pope wise.

Women, as a group, are less inclined to be so overwhelmingly in support of big government, instead, they have concentrated on 'women's issues', which, since those perquisites are provided by big government and enforcement of 'equal opportunity' legislation, they too, qualify as less than rational, objective, independent voices in the electorate.

And the 90 to 96 percent of the black vote that went to Obama, and this is a primary, mind you, with a woman as his opponent, added to the fact that blacks always vote 90% for the Democrats, the party of big government, should be at least a mild indicator to even the blindest of you.

You may not agree with my conclusions, and that is fine, but I challenge you to refute my attention to detail on how these minority groups actually vote.

There is a difference in ideology in America, usually reflected by a close division between how groups of people cast their votes, that small percentage of 'swing voters', according to the pundits, usually decides elections.

Blacks vote for blacks, women vote for women, this indicates that neither group are weighing issues, philosophies or ideologies, but voting single issue events, which means they can be boxed and stored away as predictable.

So be as outraged at my contentions as you may, I think you just don't want to perceive the facts as they are.

Amicus...

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

KEEBLER

Everyone quit laughing. America is too uptight to laugh at itself since about 1968. Its still cool to laugh at Rednecks, though.

Something I noticed working with blacks: If the black person is from Africa or the Caribbean they come across totally different from African-Americans. And they get treated differently. They dont have the chip on their shoulders.

The difference is a toxic culture of "therapeutic alienation," as described by John McWhorter here. It's insightful and sad.

 

[cloudy]

But they need to stop studying basketball and start studying the things that really matter in making a better life for themselves and their families.

That's not racist. It's true.

Wrong. It's racist as hell, and you should be ashamed for saying it, but you won't. You don't see anything but what affects you, and apparently have never known anyone that wasn't as white as you are.

People are not stereotypes, but you won't ever learn that particular lesson.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Then its just as racist to lump Blacks together as disadvantaged and special needs.

 

[cloudy]

Then its just as racist to lump Blacks together as disadvantaged and special needs.

Believe it or not, I agree. Skin color means nothing to me. It means something to Jenny, though.

 

[rgraham666]

Believe it or not, I agree. Skin color means nothing to me. It means something to Jenny, though.

Here's a page to watch.

Snopes on Obama.

 

[IrezumiKiss]

Personally, JamesB... I loved Watson's take on black culture in his interview on the DNA basis of intelligence.

He said there is no DNA evidence found that shows blacks any less intelligent than other groups. But they need to stop studying basketball and start studying the things that really matter in making a better life for themselves and their families.

That's not racist. It's true.

John and Bobby Kennedy enforced integration in the the south back in the 60's. LBJ made segregation illegal. The predominatly white congress passed "Affirmative Action" legislation.

Now 30 years later it's been turned around. Blacks (here, at least) feel entitled. They work the system to their benefit at the expense of the whites, whine "Racist" whenever they don't get their way and blame whitey for the murders, drugs and whores in the black community.

It's frustrating for those of us who have supported them for years to see what it's come too.

Ha. It's true, huh?

Funny...I just happen to know PLENTY of professional Black people in many noble, upright professions outside of basketball that they studied very hard for....like genetic research, for example. Or civil engineering. Or industrial designing. Or automotive repairing. Or upholstery and furniture restoration.

Of course, those (and many, many other) professions aren't really all that glamourous or high-profile enough for today's (Black) youth to emulate and be visually impressed by to believe in a future they'd like to live in that gives them wealth, fun and popularity...you know, to be the kind of high-paid, platinum AMEX-carrying athletic-superstar Black person that those four (White) women from Sex In The City would stand next to and wanna get their groove on with — you know, those four (White) women that practically reinvented sex for the Modern American (White) Woman and pushed an unapologetic "culture" of star status symbol cock-sucking and brand-name shopping whore-ship onto the fantasy ideals and fucked-up credit ratings of many an Modern American (White) Woman for like, eight years...and running, if you count the box office placement value of the movie and the continued syndication of the sexless version on TBS...and of course, those four Modern American (White) Women are doing LOADS for pushing a "better lifestyle" agenda for them and theirs...that's why they're so popular right now...but hey, don't worry about all that superficial crap. I mean, it's not like it's a young Black (or any race's) person's fault that certain sports are repeatedly pushed as the most viable and immediate way out of worsening social conditions, not to mention having higher financial opportunities than most other professions in America that they're more likely to get shut out of, which would deprive them of the star status symbolizing and brand-name shopping whore-shipping that's championed by templar American popular media expressions of a better lifestyle for a person and their families, such as Sex And The City...

....but you get the REAL gist here, right? I mean, you sure as hell don't see any Black people going out for curling, do ya? Maybe we shoulda tried to intergrate that back in the '50s...the world might've been forever changed for the better...

But never mind all that. Basketball is a black person's "culture," after all. Like you say, that's all most of us are doing instead of studying the things that really matter in making a better life for themselves and our families. Even though a Black person isn't commissioning the sport, or selling it to the masses, or setting up inflated salaries for its players, or raising ticket prices to the people making it the money-first, talent-second, class-last institution it is today, it's still our fault for buying the kit and kaboodle of basketball, hook, line and sinker. You don't have to feel bad. I'm sure you tried your best and gave your all when you were "supporting their futures" back when the game was still white and respectable.