First major-party African-American presidential nominee

[sr71plt]

Everyone but me expected Hillary to give it up yesterday. She didnt, and I wasnt surprised.

The delegates dont count till late August, and I think she wont leave the arena until Bill and Chelsea drag her out by her feet. She reminds me of Hitler at his end.

Every minute she remains damages Obama with the polarity she creates. She makes Old Maids and Chickenkickers into Lost Cause Rebels.

As usual, you know squat about the political process. Just leaving now would be the worst thing she could do for the party. (If she wants a good slice of her supporters to switch over to Obama, she has to take time to let them cool down and be ready to switch with her.) And you don't understand Hillary Clinton at all. She takes a very long view and will do whatever it takes for a Democratic Party win in November--with her an obvious factor in that win. She's in a necessary adjustment period now. If you haven't noticed both Obama and Clinton adjusting to each other--and reality--already, then you are truly as dumb as your inane postings are.

 

[Guest]

Geraldine Anne Ferraro


It's was pre TV... she went by Gerry Ferraro, most voters thought she was an Irish-Italian

1984 according to Wikipedia. Pre TV?

And not very black. So Thee must be thinking of someone else.

Agreed.

But neon made me spit out my raspberry tea.

 

[sr71plt]

So I guess the african american woman vice presidential candidate from a couple hundred years ago doesn't count?

The first black woman vice presidential candidate was Charlotte Basss in 1952 for the Progressive Party. No black woman vp candidate for a major party. (The first black woman to run for president in a major party and get primary votes was Shirley Chisholm in 1972).

 

[jomar]

Listening to NPR just now, it sounds like the world is behind Obama. A few celebrations, polls and hopeful op-eds, really, but his nomination truly has captured global interest.

 

[Belegon]

1884 - Marietta Lizzie Bell Stow
She was the running-mate of Belva Ann Bennett Lockwood of the The Equal Rights party.

US History Encyclopedia:
Equal Rights Party


The Equal Rights Party was a minor political party that supported woman's suffrage. It also advocated prohibition; uniform rights under marriage, divorce, and property law; civil service reform; and world peace. Its presidential candidate in 1884 and 1888 was Belva A. Lockwood, a leader in the woman's suffrage, peace, and temperance movements. The party failed to receive any important support, even from the suffrage organizations, and polled at most only about two thousand votes. Major feminist leaders, including Elizabeth Cady Stanton and Susan B. Anthony, opposed it on the grounds that suffrage could only be achieved by working within the existing two-party system.

 

[Belegon]

As usual, you know squat about the political process. Just leaving now would be the worst thing she could do for the party. (If she wants a good slice of her supporters to switch over to Obama, she has to take time to let them cool down and be ready to switch with her.) And you don't understand Hillary Clinton at all. She takes a very long view and will do whatever it takes for a Democratic Party win in November--with her an obvious factor in that win. She's in a necessary adjustment period now. If you haven't noticed both Obama and Clinton adjusting to each other--and reality--already, then you are truly as dumb as your inane postings are.

I hope you are right.

My emotional reaction to Hillary was basically pissed off.
It was along the lines of, "Look, the gun has sounded, the buzzer went off, the top of the tenth is next and WE AIN'T TIED. Decision? What decision? You lost. No competitive person likes to lose, but you ran out of time and outs and you are behind on the scoreboard. Show some fucking sportsmanship."

 

[3113]

I hope you are right.

My emotional reaction to Hillary was basically pissed off.
It was along the lines of, "Look, the gun has sounded, the buzzer went off, the top of the tenth is next and WE AIN'T TIED. Decision? What decision? You lost. No competitive person likes to lose, but you ran out of time and outs and you are behind on the scoreboard. Show some fucking sportsmanship."

Don't be pissed at Hillary. Intentionally or not, she's done the democratic party and Obama a great favor...she's kept the Republicans from being able to use their nastiest trick on him up till now. Now the Swift Boat guys will be out with their guns, and right-wing media will be listening to every word to fall from his lips in order to pounce and malign it to their advantage.

So long as Hillary and Obama were neck-n-neck, the Republicans had no one target. They kept swinging the gun band and forth between the two of them. Now and then they got a shot in, but thanks to this tight race, there was no fixed target. And she did something else, she allowed every single democrat in the U.S. to feel that their vote mattered. Usually it's been, "What does it matter? My primary comes in June and it's a non-issue, the decision's been made." This time around, everyone got their chance to have the candidates there in their state, making speeches, kissing their babies, and they got to feel that maybe their vote would be the deciding vote, not a pointless vote.

And that means that they're more invested in the process and more likely to vote come November. Because they've been made to feel it matters, and that they matter.

So, yeah, I understand that a lot of people have been frustrated by her hanging in there. But she had good reason to--it was a close race and the tide seemed to turn several times. AND, I think it was, in the long run, a good thing. I think, in the long run, it did more good than harm. Obama got a chance to cut embarrassing ties, thicken his skin, and to learn how to really swim before diving into the deep end. This is the deep end, and he needs to be a strong swimmer. Hillary's given him a chance to strengthen his muscles, and get his game on. This long training period will, I think, serve him well in the months to come.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

And why would Hillary quit now? Obama is over the top only because of superdelegates. Over the next five months his big mouth will expose himself for the beast he really is and they will abandon him for Hillary.

Hillary just needs to bide her time.

Now at the end of the mess I have only one thing to say - DUMP THAT SEXIST ASSHOLE, HOWARD DEAN.

 

[Guest]

And why would Hillary quit now? Obama is over the top only because of superdelegates. Over the next five months his big mouth will expose himself for the beast he really is and they will abandon him for Hillary.

Hillary just needs to bide her time.

Oh, for heaven's sake.

 

[sr71plt]

1884 - Marietta Lizzie Bell Stow
She was the running-mate of Belva Ann Bennett Lockwood of the The Equal Rights party.

US History Encyclopedia:
Equal Rights Party


The Equal Rights Party was a minor political party that supported woman's suffrage. It also advocated prohibition; uniform rights under marriage, divorce, and property law; civil service reform; and world peace. Its presidential candidate in 1884 and 1888 was Belva A. Lockwood, a leader in the woman's suffrage, peace, and temperance movements. The party failed to receive any important support, even from the suffrage organizations, and polled at most only about two thousand votes. Major feminist leaders, including Elizabeth Cady Stanton and Susan B. Anthony, opposed it on the grounds that suffrage could only be achieved by working within the existing two-party system.

Stowe wasn't black.

 

[cloudy]

And why would Hillary quit now? Obama is over the top only because of superdelegates. Over the next five months his big mouth will expose himself for the beast he really is and they will abandon him for Hillary.

Hillary just needs to bide her time.

Now at the end of the mess I have only one thing to say - DUMP THAT SEXIST ASSHOLE, HOWARD DEAN.

...and I've seen you post that it's Obama that's dividing the party. Look in the mirror lately?

 

[sr71plt]

I hope you are right.

My emotional reaction to Hillary was basically pissed off.
It was along the lines of, "Look, the gun has sounded, the buzzer went off, the top of the tenth is next and WE AIN'T TIED. Decision? What decision? You lost. No competitive person likes to lose, but you ran out of time and outs and you are behind on the scoreboard. Show some fucking sportsmanship."

Politicians at the national level don't think in terms of one office all or nothing. Hillary has a gigantic bandwagon--and many of those on this bandwagon are so pissed that Obama has (they would argue) gone out of turn that as of last night, they wouldn't vote for him and might even start up something independent. Clinton has lost the nomination--but very closely, really, certainly closely enough for her to have continued building political power by staying in the campaign even beyond her expectations of winning. But what she also has in hand gives her leverage for all sorts of negotiations for position. She's not dumb. She's not just going to throw in the towel until she sees what she can leverage out of this and until she can cool down as many as her pissed supporters as is possible to stick with the party campaign (as she most certainly will). Note that even when Edwards threw in the towel, he didn't endorse anyone and started using his leverage to get both Obama and Clinton to take up some of his issues.

Throughout the campaign the political pundits have been saying that a problem for Obama and Clinton in the nomination campaign was that there wasn't a hair's breadth of difference between them politically. You can count on even that small gap evaporating in the coming weeks. And, you can count on seeing Hillary either on the ticket or as Governor of New York soon--and even more powerful than ever inside the Democratic Party.

You might even see her having enough leverage of her own to dump Bill.

 

[Liar]

And why would Hillary quit now? Obama is over the top only because of superdelegates. Over the next five months his big mouth will expose himself for the beast he really is and they will abandon him for Hillary.

Hillary just needs to bide her time.

Five months? I was under the impression that it was crunch time for the Democratic convention pretty soon.

Or do you mean she should run as an independent?

Meh, I dunno. Not my election anyway.

 

[Belegon]

Stowe wasn't black.

hmmm... well, I'm gonna throw that one on the search engine then. Because that came up when I googled "black female vice-presidential candidate".

Believe me, I don't know that much about the 1884 election.

 

[sr71plt]

And why would Hillary quit now? Obama is over the top only because of superdelegates. Over the next five months his big mouth will expose himself for the beast he really is and they will abandon him for Hillary.

Hillary just needs to bide her time.

Now at the end of the mess I have only one thing to say - DUMP THAT SEXIST ASSHOLE, HOWARD DEAN.

That would be pretty dumb in terms of public support. You may think Hillary is dumb, but I don't. She'll be right there, ready to go, if Obama gets popped off, certainly (which is a reason to go for the vp spot), but she isn't dumb enough to want the presidency from behind the eight ball. She'll make "wonderful miracle worker" within the party and bide her time on that basis.

 

[Belegon]

That would be pretty dumb in terms of public support. You may think Hillary is dumb, but I don't. She'll be right there, ready to go, if Obama gets popped off, certainly (which is a reason to go for the vp spot), but she isn't dumb enough to want the presidency from behind the eight ball. She'll make "wonderful miracle worker" within the party and bide her time on that basis.

I repeat that I hope you are right.

It doesn't change that she could have accomplished these same goals in a manner less likely to piss off the Obama supporters, which obviously include me.

 

[sr71plt]

hmmm... well, I'm gonna throw that one on the search engine then. Because that came up when I googled "black female vice-presidential candidate".

Believe me, I don't know that much about the 1884 election.

Your search engine doesn't give you just the intersection of the terms you put in--it broadens the search out to any combination of the terms. Do more googling and you'll get Basss as the first BLACK woman vp candidate of any national party--and then if you do some research on Stowe, you'll find she wasn't black.

(And if you google the Equal Rights Party, you'll find it was talking exclusively about equal rights for woman, not blacks--as the issues indicate even in the reference you cite.)

 

[sr71plt]

It doesn't change that she could have accomplished these same goals in a manner less likely to piss off the Obama supporters, which obviously include me.

In political campaigning, I rather doubt that's possible. And the flip side is that Obama could have done a whole of a hell lot more not to piss off Hillary's supporters too--he dug himself a hole to get out of wit a big slug of the Democratic Party faithful. But since Hillary is more politically experienced than he is, he has her to help him with that now. Wonder what he'd do if the roles were reversed.

 

[neonlyte]

1984 according to Wikipedia. Pre TV?

And not very black. So Thee must be thinking of someone else.

I'm a fiction writer

 

[shereads]

Even so, a McCain-Obama contest is the best news this country has had in decades. For the first time I could willingly vote for either and won't regret the election of the one I don't vote for. At least Billery seems out of the picture. And if I were Obama, I'd be looking really closely at Richardson. If I were McCain, I'd be doing my best to change Condi's mind. Of such things, dreams are made.

McCain is anti-choice on abortion rights. That's a deal-breaker for me.

If he really wants to cement the idea that he is Bush 3, Condi Rice on the ticket would do it.

 

[S-Des]

Your search engine doesn't give you just the intersection of the terms you put in--it broadens the search out to any combination of the terms. Do more googling and you'll get Basss as the first BLACK woman vp candidate of any national party--and then if you do some research on Stowe, you'll find she wasn't black.

(And if you google the Equal Rights Party, you'll find it was talking exclusively about equal rights for woman, not blacks--as the issues indicate even in the reference you cite.)

I haven't seen the episode TGP was referencing, but the Robert Wuhl show has some astonishing facts that are pretty dependable (they use an entire research staff to find historical facts that are generally unknown). That said, Obama is one of two finalists (and the odds-on favorite to win), so it's a totally different ballgame.

As an outsider, I think Hillary is either under the belief that Obama will self-destruct before the convention (not likely), will lose so is positioning herself to run in 2012, or believes that between the economy, Iraq, and other factors, he'll be so damaged by his first term that she can run against him in 2012. I don't believe she has gone through 20-40 million dollars of their own money to gain more power in the Democratic party. She wants to go down in history as the first female president, period.

 

[Belegon]

In political campaigning, I rather doubt that's possible. And the flip side is that Obama could have done a whole of a hell lot more not to piss off Hillary's supporters too--he dug himself a hole to get out of wit a big slug of the Democratic Party faithful. But since Hillary is more politically experienced than he is, he has her to help him with that now. Wonder what he'd do if the roles were reversed.

" Obama could have done a whole of a hell lot more not to piss off Hillary's supporters too"

Huh? I assume you are talking about the whole campaign, not just last night... but still, Obama has run a campaign that was dramatically less confrontational and nasty than any we have seen in recent years. I would love to have you elaborate on this statement.

Obama talking abut Hillary last night:

That is particularly true for the candidate who has traveled further on this journey than anyone else. Senator Hillary Clinton has made history in this campaign not just because she’s a woman who has done what no woman has done before, but because she’s a leader who inspires millions of Americans with her strength, her courage, and her commitment to the causes that brought us here tonight.

We’ve certainly had our differences over the last sixteen months. But as someone who’s shared a stage with her many times, I can tell you that what gets Hillary Clinton up in the morning – even in the face of tough odds – is exactly what sent her and Bill Clinton to sign up for their first campaign in Texas all those years ago; what sent her to work at the Children’s Defense Fund and made her fight for health care as First Lady; what led her to the United States Senate and fueled her barrier-breaking campaign for the presidency – an unyielding desire to improve the lives of ordinary Americans, no matter how difficult the fight may be. And you can rest assured that when we finally win the battle for universal health care in this country, she will be central to that victory. When we transform our energy policy and lift our children out of poverty, it will be because she worked to help make it happen. Our party and our country are better off because of her, and I am a better candidate for having had the honor to compete with Hillary Rodham Clinton.

ummm.... that's not exactly ripping into her now, is it? Pretty complimentary I think...

 

[Boxlicker101]

I hope you are right.

My emotional reaction to Hillary was basically pissed off.
It was along the lines of, "Look, the gun has sounded, the buzzer went off, the top of the tenth is next and WE AIN'T TIED. Decision? What decision? You lost. No competitive person likes to lose, but you ran out of time and outs and you are behind on the scoreboard. Show some fucking sportsmanship."

The gun has not sounded and the buzzer has not gone off. The contest is limited by time, not innings. To quote another famous sportsman, Larry "Yogi" Berra, "It ain't over 'til it's over."

Obama does have a small lead in pledged delegates, but they can, if given sufficient provocation, violate that pledge. The super delegates have announced a preference, but they can change their minds if new facts come to light. Hillary is slightly behind on the scoreboard, but time has not run out yet.

 

[S-Des]

McCain is anti-choice on abortion rights. That's a deal-breaker for me.

It will be for a lot of Independents/Moderates. Then again, if he tried to hedge a position he's held for 25 years in the Senate, he'd be making himself out to be a complete panderer and untrustworthy. I think his best approach is to be himself and hope enough people will look past the areas they disagree on.

If he really wants to cement the idea that he is Bush 3, Condi Rice on the ticket would do it.

I agree completely. I like Rice, but she brings very few positives and a bunch of negatives. If she had any interest in breaking that ceiling, she needs to get elected to something and develop her own political record. At the moment, Bush has damaged her to the point where she'd be a drag on the ticket.

 

[sr71plt]

I haven't seen the episode TGP was referencing, but the Robert Wuhl show has some astonishing facts that are pretty dependable (they use an entire research staff to find historical facts that are generally unknown). That said, Obama is one of two finalists (and the odds-on favorite to win), so it's a totally different ballgame.

As an outsider, I think Hillary is either under the belief that Obama will self-destruct before the convention (not likely), will lose so is positioning herself to run in 2012, or believes that between the economy, Iraq, and other factors, he'll be so damaged by his first term that she can run against him in 2012. I don't believe she has gone through 20-40 million dollars of their own money to gain more power in the Democratic party. She wants to go down in history as the first female president, period.

Well, yes, she was campaigning to win. But she didn't. And what she's doing now is "next besting" in longer view terms. Beyond that, I'm not sure what your first paragraph means at all, and, as far as your second paragraph, I don't think Hillary is dumb enough to think that Obama self-destructing and still giving her the nomination is her "next besting" position. These aren't one-dimensional cartoon characters.