A moment of jaw dropping shock (political)

[rgraham666]

Over at another forum I followed a link to this article.

When I read this particular piece of it I had a moment of self revelation.

Granted, when it comes to defining exactly what authentic conservatism entails, considerable disagreement exists even (or especially) among conservatives themselves. My own definition emphasizes the following:

a commitment to individual liberty, tempered by the conviction that genuine freedom entails more than simply an absence of restraint;

a belief in limited government, fiscal responsibility, and the rule of law;

veneration for our cultural inheritance combined with a sense of stewardship for Creation;

a reluctance to discard or tamper with traditional social arrangements;

respect for the market as the generator of wealth combined with a wariness of the market’s corrosive impact on humane values;

a deep suspicion of utopian promises, rooted in an appreciation of the sinfulness of man and the recalcitrance of history.

Holy shit! I'm a conservative!



Well, I don't share the author's view on every point. But overall I'm far more in agreement than disagreement.

 

[SemiColon]

Me, too. I had to read it again. Unfortunately that's not the end of their views, and therein lies the problem.

 

[rgraham666]

Yeah. If I were American I'd fight bitterly in defense of Roe vs. Wade. And the same in favor of gay marriage.

I suspect my idea of limited government is different from the author's as well.

But I do agree on many things. Especially "respect for the market as the generator of wealth combined with a wariness of the market’s corrosive impact on humane values".

 

[Guest]

Over at another forum I followed a link to this article.

When I read this particular piece of it I had a moment of self revelation.



Holy shit! I'm a conservative!



Well, I don't share the author's view on every point. But overall I'm far more in agreement than disagreement.

Isn't that was Colly believed?

Classic conservatism.

Of course in the U.S., the party really isn't that way anymore.

They're about power and wealth and making certain they hang onto both without having to share.

I think.

I suppose we could toss in some sort of desire to control everyone else's religious beliefs, too.

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

Don't sweat it, Rob. I'm told some of the best families have a conservative or two among their ranks.

Rumple Foreskin

 

[rgraham666]

It's one of the reasons I adored Colly.

However we did have some bang up verbal tussles about guns and public health care.

 

[rgraham666]

Don't sweat it, Rob. I'm told some of the best families have a conservative or two among their ranks.

Rumple Foreskin

I don't sweat it. My official political stance is still 'heretical'.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Most Americans are conservative when you get right down to what conservatism is.

 

[Liar]

But I do agree on many things. Especially "respect for the market as the generator of wealth combined with a wariness of the market’s corrosive impact on humane values".

It's that last part that so many self entitled conservatives and libertarians alike forget.

 

[Liar]

veneration for our cultural inheritance combined with a sense of stewardship for Creation;

a reluctance to discard or tamper with traditional social arrangements;

Remove these and I'm a conservative too.

Problem is, I'm too fond of freedom to compromize it with cultural or social oppression.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

LIAR! What a crock of crap.

Damned nearly everyone respects tradition. Otherwise the world would wake up every morning and have to re-invent the wheel again.

 

[DesertPirate]

There is an old joke:
If you are not a Liberal at 20 you have no heart.
If you are not a Conservative at 40 you have no brain!

 

[Guest]

There is an old joke:
If you are not a Liberal at 20 you have no heart.
If you are not a Conservative at 40 you have no brain!

Classic conservativism, certainly.

Not what it has been warped into.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

SARAH

Youre talking out your ass again. Conservatism isnt steel or plastic to be molded. Its a political philosophy with definite principles that remain unaltered like the Ten Commandments.

 

[DesertPirate]

Classic conservativism, certainly.

Not what it has been warped into.

I am a classic conservative

 

[Guest]

I am a classic conservative

So are my parents.

I see their confusion at what is happening today.

They can't turn their backs on what they've been, but each news broadcast clearly demonstrates this is not what they voted for.

Quite a conundrum, yes?

 

[DesertPirate]

So are my parents.

I see their confusion at what is happening today.

They can't turn their backs on what they've been, but each news broadcast clearly demonstrates this is not what they voted for.

Quite a conundrum, yes?

Very much! There are a few I'd like to slap silly. Then again I'd love to do the same to all those that have perverted the Liberal tag too! About the only true Liberal around is Lieberman.

 

[Carnevil9]

No conundrum. There ARE no conservatives in office in the US today. And there is no "Conservative Party" either, unfortunately.

 

[Guest]

Very much! There are a few I'd like to slap silly. Then again I'd love to do the same to all those that have perverted the Liberal tag too! About the only true Liberal around is Lieberman.

I have a few to slap silly on my list, too.

 

[amicus]

Clever, clever, clever, but oh so transparent; here, let me clean your windshield.

Classic Liberalism, for those of you who really have an interest, demonstrated that Liberalism and its compatriot, the free market place, Capitalism, engendered, ethics, morals and values inherent in free enterprise.

"...combined with a wariness of the market’s corrosive impact on humane values"..."

What a crock! Collectivism, the 'command economy', is that which is inhumane and destroys basic human values by destroying the individual and tradition and culture and diluting grandeur with the commonplace.

Modern Liberals absconded with the title, 'Liberal' in the socialist 1930's, because they had not the courage to identify themselves as Communists or Socialists and old Senator McCarthy put a cap on that in the 50's, so the left went underground, was reborn and came back as the Liberal Left.

Such a deal.

And now here they are again, ashamed of their philosophy and groveling to identify with 'Conservatism', of all things.

The first, 'baby boomer', recently retired and applied for Social Security at age 62. (it was in the news)

Funny thing is, rejecting conventional and traditional values, tradition and culture, the 'baby boomers', don't have babies! Thus the Ponzi, Pyramid scheme of Social Security, which depends on a mass of the innocent young paying into the fund, is about to collapse. It is happening in Europe and Asia also as the white population declines because of a 1.25 birth rate.

Such a deal.

The left hasn't changed a bit and adding 'Conservative' to their repertoire, ain't gonna change the feathers of this sick bird.

They still favor forced retirement contributions (SS), forced education, (Public Schools) Socialized Medicine(disguised as national health care) butchering babies and empowering sterile, same sex marriage (contradiction in terms). They would happily vote for and welcome Obama(which the article was all about), the most far left Senator in Congress and somehow sell him as a Conservative?

Ya gotta be jerkin me?

Ah, enough entertainment this morning, my garden beckons me.

Amicus...

 

[Guest]

Oh, ami. None of us are jerking you.

Seems to me you do that enough to yourself.

 

[WRJames]

Quote:
Granted, when it comes to defining exactly what authentic conservatism entails, considerable disagreement exists even (or especially) among conservatives themselves. My own definition emphasizes the following:

a commitment to individual liberty, tempered by the conviction that genuine freedom entails more than simply an absence of restraint;

a belief in limited government, fiscal responsibility, and the rule of law;

veneration for our cultural inheritance combined with a sense of stewardship for Creation;

a reluctance to discard or tamper with traditional social arrangements;

respect for the market as the generator of wealth combined with a wariness of the market’s corrosive impact on humane values;

a deep suspicion of utopian promises, rooted in an appreciation of the sinfulness of man and the recalcitrance of history.

Sounds great. But as usual, the devil is in the details. Just how do you balance "individual liberty" and a "belief in ... the rule of law."

What if excercising that liberty would endager "traditional social arrangements"

Just what "cultural inheritance" are we venerating? The reactions to Reverend Wright's attempts to establish a "black" cultural identity and an alternative reading history suggest that the conservative cultural identity is "American" -- that is, white European.

How "limited" should limitied government. Should government be providing education, roads, water, sewers?

What about other universally required services -- health care, electricity, communications?

There is a range of opinion on all of these --

As for the market as a generator of wealth -- well and good when it is working properly. Lest we forget, the free market collapsed completely in 1929. There are a lot of regulations and shock absorbers in place now to try to prevent that from happening again. This requires, inevitably, government intervention.

Which is not to say that I am in disagreement with most of this -- however there are "liberal" principles such as concern for social justice which most people would agree with also.

 

[DesertPirate]

Oh, ami. None of us are jerking you.

Seems to me you do that enough to yourself.

I agree with some of his comments but he does take it a bit far at times.

 

[Guest]

I agree with some of his comments but he does take it a bit far at times.

Oh, I wasn't talking about any of his comments.

 

[DesertPirate]

Oh, I wasn't talking about any of his comments.

*SPEW*
Damn, now I have to clean up the coffee