Juicy college: discuss

[Recidiva]

it is nice to know that beating the crap out of someone makes one a guy...feee is glad to know it doesn't make one a man

No, that's not at all what I'm saying.

What I'm saying is that if someone comes at you physically and with no warning, it's a good idea to win.

 

[Guest]

As they grow, they gain skills. They adapt. Our daughter is four years older than our son and we can see the positive gains in her since she was in elementary school.

At least having a high IQ is a good thing with the Asperger's. They tend to hang out with other "geeks" and smart kids, generally get in groups with others of their own kind, so to speak. That group can be more accepting of differences.

One of the child psychs we see told us that as they grew, they would find others like them. They would seek out others who were similar.

We told our kids they were like X-Men. Different. Special.

 

[Recidiva]

As they grow, they gain skills. They adapt. Our daughter is four years older than our son and we can see the positive gains in her since she was in elementary school.

At least having a high IQ is a good thing with the Asperger's. They tend to hang out with other "geeks" and smart kids, generally get in groups with others of their own kind, so to speak.

One of the child psychs we see told us that as they grew, they would find others like them. They would seek out others who were similar.

We told our kids they were like X-Men. Different. Special.

Yup. Fortunately my son's brilliant, really truly brilliant. He's got a great future as a mechanic or a game tester or anything involving comprehension of the physical universe.

Just not so much comprehension of the human psyche, but I think the first is of more value anyway. He'll be fine.

I say it's a blessing in disguise, it's just a really good disguise.

 

[feeeriek]

No, that's not at all what I'm saying.

What I'm saying is that if someone comes at you physically and with no warning, it's a good idea to win.

and what feee is saying is that fighting does not make one a guy or a man it is something that unfortunately happens sometimes...which i asked how it makes one a guy

 

[Recidiva]

and what feee is saying is that fighting does not make one a guy or a man it is something that unfortunately happens sometimes...which i asked how it makes one a guy

I didn't say it made you a man. I said it was part of being a guy. Physical confrontation is also part of being a girl.

Fighting is something I avoid by being good at it.

I'd simply like to pass that along to my son.

 

[Guest]

Yup. Fortunately my son's brilliant, really truly brilliant. He's got a great future as a mechanic or a game tester or anything involving comprehension of the physical universe.

Just not so much comprehension of the human psyche, but I think the first is of more value anyway. He'll be fine.

I say it's a blessing in disguise, it's just a really good disguise.

Yep.

That same child psych said our daughter would be planning the first manned mission to Mars, then get lost trying to find her car in the parking lot on the way home.

 

[where]

Isn't this just like other free speech issues - if you don't want to hear it, don't read it/support it?

That would be the case except if one is 'outed' as gay, rape victim whatever, then it impacts on your social relations within your community because someone will read it and spread it. Rather than seeing such sites as upholding 'free speech', I think seeing them as violating the human right to privacy and confidentiality. But then I have never got the obsession with free speech anyway. Probably because I'm a Brit

 

[Recidiva]

That would be the case except if one is 'outed' as gay, rape victim whatever, then it impacts on your social relations within your community because someone will read it and spread it. Rather than seeing such sites as upholding 'free speech', I think seeing them as violating the human right to privacy and confidentiality. But then I have never got the obsession with free speech anyway. Probably because I'm a Brit

Well, this is the hard knock life.

I don't think there's anything shameful about being gay or a rape victim. Anyone making it seem so is a dick.

There really is no right to privacy.

 

[where]

Well, this is the hard knock life.

I don't think there's anything shameful about being gay or a rape victim. Anyone making it seem so is a dick.

There really is no right to privacy.

no, nothing shameful at all, but people have the right to privacy.

 

[feeeriek]

I didn't say it made you a man. I said it was part of being a guy. Physical confrontation is also part of being a girl.

Fighting is something I avoid by being good at it.

I'd simply like to pass that along to my son.

no you didn't say it made you a man...feee said it didn't....you said you thought it was required to be a guy and gave an example of how various members of your family handled a physical confrontation...that did however not clarify for feee how that made one a guy

 

[Recidiva]

no, nothing shameful at all, but people have the right to privacy.

According to what enforcable law, is there any right to privacy?

 

[Recidiva]

no you didn't say it made you a man...feee said it didn't....you said you thought it was required to be a guy and gave an example of how various members of your family handled a physical confrontation...that did however not clarify for feee how that made one a guy

Okay, well, if my clarification didn't clear anything up, then we'll just remain unclear, there's not much more I can say about it.

 

[feeeriek]

Okay, well, if my clarification didn't clear anything up, then we'll just remain unclear, there's not much more I can say about it.

fine so according to what you are saying violence is a good answer to resolving conflict...nice to know that

 

[where]

According to what enforcable law, is there any right to privacy?

... maybe not enforcable in the US, but the UN Declaration of Human Rights considers it to be fundamental and in the UK it is enforcable under the Human Rights Act 1998

 

[Recidiva]

... maybe not enforcable in the US, but the UN Declaration of Human Rights considers it to be fundamental and in the UK it is enforcable under the Human Rights Act 1998

How well is it enforced?

 

[where]

How well is it enforced?

well newspapers have been taken to court by celebs. Those ones make the news. I should think if there was a website like that in the uk it wouldn't last that long. The point is, it is recognised as a right in law

 

[Quinn71]

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/webguide/internetlife/2008-03-19-juicycampus-investigation_N.htm


Here's a general idea.

Juicy College is a website where posters are allowed to spread malicious gossip about their peers.
I saw the story on 20/20 last night.
The guy who runs the site is remaining hidden behind the scenes and is using the First Amendment for protection.

This site has caused students to be slandered, stalked, have criminal acts forced upon them...etc. Its horrifying.

One girl was raped on campus.......guess where it showed up? One poster said "she deserved it" and "I wish it was me that did it"

Gay students have been outted......others accused of racism.
Posters on this site are anonymous, they leave no email address to join, nothing traceable.

Its appalling and crap like this threatens good places like Lit.

It is absolutely appalling what is becoming of our society.

Like the guy who pays people to go beat up homeless people while he videotapes it all.

 

[Recidiva]

well newspapers have been taken to court by celebs. Those ones make the news. I should think if there was a website like that in the uk it wouldn't last that long. The point is, it is recognised as a right in law

Okay.

To be clear I think it's entirely infantile and destructive behavior. I wouldn't associate with anyone who posted there. Then again I wouldn't associate with anyone who gave a damn about what was posted about them there.

But lots of physical adults behave in infantile and destructive ways. I avoid them.

The problem here is that the "damages" are entirely social and entirely subjective.

The law runs into huge troubles when you put a value on "privacy" or "feelings."

You can put a value on the TV set someone stole. You can put a value on the bones someone broke, on medical bills...

But when we get into "they hurt my feelings and damaged my ego and pride" I have very little sympathy. There's no real physical cost, and the emotional cost is entirely subjective.

I can't just shrug off that someone broke into my home or physically harmed me. I can entirely ignore insults. I think that's the mature approach.

So I don't think that police should be out arresting people for being meanspirited. I think there are more serious crimes and a much more mature approach to dealing with it.

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me."

It really does come down to that for me. Otherwise we become obsessed by every little detail and every tiny slight as if everyone must adore us at all times.

 

[where]

Okay.

To be clear I think it's entirely infantile and destructive behavior. I wouldn't associate with anyone who posted there. Then again I wouldn't associate with anyone who gave a damn about what was posted about them there.

But lots of physical adults behave in infantile and destructive ways. I avoid them.

The problem here is that the "damages" are entirely social and entirely subjective.everything connected with the law and rights are subjective and contextual

The law runs into huge troubles when you put a value on "privacy" or "feelings."'feelings' fair enough. Privacy is quite another matter. If someone has been raped they have the right to keep that fact private just as someone has the right to have their sexual preferences kept private assuming they comply with the law

You can put a value on the TV set someone stole. You can put a value on the bones someone broke, on medical bills...

But when we get into "they hurt my feelings and damaged my ego and pride" I have very little sympathy. There's no real physical cost, and the emotional cost is entirely subjective.emotional cost is subjective and I'm not suggesting you quantify it. But supposing you were outed as a lesbian or as being in a BDSM master slave relationship on such a site and consequently lost your job, were unable to pay your mortgage and then lost your home?

I can't just shrug off that someone broke into my home or physically harmed me. I can entirely ignore insults. I think that's the mature approach.I could shrug off having my tv or car nicked. Having my name dragged through the mud and my kids tormented and bullied because of something LEGAL I chose to do in the privacy of my own home I couldn't

So I don't think that police should be out arresting people for being meanspirited. I think there are more serious crimes and a much more mature approach to dealing with it.

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me." I work with people labelled as having learning difficulties, and being called retards,spazzy and morons does hurt and damages self esteem. Just as calling black people niggers and women whores and bitches damages and objectifies them

It really does come down to that for me. Otherwise we become obsessed by every little detail and every tiny slight as if everyone must adore us at all times.

I have to put something here or it won't post

 

[Recidiva]

Everything connected with the law and rights are subjective and contextual

'feelings' fair enough. Privacy is quite another matter. If someone has been raped they have the right to keep that fact private just as someone has the right to have their sexual preferences kept private assuming they comply with the law

Emotional cost is subjective and I'm not suggesting you quantify it. But supposing you were outed as a lesbian or as being in a BDSM master slave relationship on such a site and consequently lost your job, were unable to pay your mortgage and then lost your home?

I could shrug off having my tv or car nicked. Having my name dragged through the mud and my kids tormented and bullied because of something LEGAL I chose to do in the privacy of my own home I couldn't

I work with people labelled as having learning difficulties, and being called retards,spazzy and morons does hurt and damages self esteem. Just as calling black people niggers and women whores and bitches damages and objectifies them

Your argument is based on people attempting to demean someone else.

There's nothing shameful about being a lesbian or being in a BDSM master/slave relationship.

If you lose your job, get another one. Work with someone who isn't an asshole, or sue them for wrongful termination. "Wrongful termination" IS a law.

I AM a person labeled with learning, medical, social, religious and other social issues. This is my solution.

There's nothing shameful about being black or a woman, either.

I damage myself if I let someone else objectify me. The only insult that matters to me is the one I take into myself as truth. Otherwise it's just meanness and ignorance and cruelty.

Call me a bitch, a whore, a heathen, a gimp, that's fine.

I really have lived through every last insult and opinion and it never stopped me from working for people who don't give a damn about what people say about me. Admiring me, in fact, for being able to just do a day's work without drama.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I think that malice is easily recognized.

Like - I don't need to go to the site because of it's stated purpose.

Picking out malice and slant in outlets that purport to be "fair" is harder.

Bottom line: Everyone has an agenda and a slant. Some are easier to pick out and are as easy to see as someone holding a knife. Some are much more insidious. I worry much more about the good liar than the socially dysfunctional drama queen.

Jumping into this awfully late in thegame, but-- we were talking about this in another community. There are two answers to this problem; one is shunning, which removes the problem makers from the pale of human interaction. it works very well in real life communities, where it's obvious that every back is, literally, turned towards you. But it doesn't work on the internet. If Diva ignores this site-- not one single person how goes there will ever notice her absence.

The other way is to speak up and protest. Fill the site with pro-politeness trolls. Free speech can go both ways, after all. If fuckwads can say what they wish here on lit-- antifuckwads can say what they wish there on juicy. And of course, your identity is completely protected.

Also-- this investigation and any precident it sets, might be helpful in the Lori Drew case.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

The other way is to speak up and protest. Fill the site with pro-politeness trolls. Free speech can go both ways, after all. If fuckwads can say what they wish here on lit-- antifuckwads can say what they wish there on juicy. And of course, your identity is completely protected.

Counter-guerrilla operations . . . I like it.

 

[Recidiva]

Jumping into this awfully late in thegame, but-- we were talking about this in another community. There are two answers to this problem; one is shunning, which removes the problem makers from the pale of human interaction. it works very well in real life communities, where it's obvious that every back is, literally, turned towards you. But it doesn't work on the internet. If Diva ignores this site-- not one single person how goes there will ever notice her absence.

The other way is to speak up and protest. Fill the site with pro-politeness trolls. Free speech can go both ways, after all. If fuckwads can say what they wish here on lit-- antifuckwads can say what they wish there on juicy. And of course, your identity is completely protected.

Also-- this investigation and any precident it sets, might be helpful in the Lori Drew case.

Protest is great, if you have the energy and the inclination.

From my own life, my daughter came home from school one day vaguely upset that someone had accused her of being a wiccan lesbian.

I ask "Honey, is there anything wrong with being either a wiccan or a lesbian?"
"No."

She's straight, but she played up the wiccan and the gay thing. She has a T-shirt that says "Thank Goodness Nobody Knows I'm Gay" which I love and just resulted in confusing people. Bonus. She would be present at any gay rights event. She ended up championing the cause of alternate religions and alternate sexualities, and I couldn't be prouder.

There's some elegant protest.

When I was in high school people made up rumors about me. I countered by starting my own. Being creative and being smarter is pretty much my solution. In my son's case, I don't think he has the social creativity or panache to fight and win. So pacifism for him.

If you have the sense of humor, the energy and are interested, by all means, make the assholes look exactly like what they are - meanspirited morons.

But do it because you're already right. Don't do it because you think they made you lose.

I'm not familiar with the Lori Drew case.

 

[Stella_Omega]

The Lori Drew case is on a thread down the way-- a 49 year old woman stalked a very young teen, megan meier, who had quarrelled with her daughter. She created a false identity on myspace, pretended to be a boy who liked Megan, and "josh" eventually told Megan that she was horrible and hateful.

Megan hung herself.

There are no laws in Missouri, evidently, which cover a case of cyber-stalking. The woman has been in danger of being lynched and the state is desperate to find something they can officially charge her with-- to prevent mob violence.

It's understandable to make decisions about your own fund of energy, we all have to do it, but don't make your own energy level a moral bellwether, huh? In the juicy case, the rumors can be enough to destroy a young person's career before it's gotten started. Even more than that-- the unbridled expressions of homophobia, misogyny, bigotry are very damaging to the fabric of our society. They make other people think that it's okay to think like that and say things like that. The best way to fight that tendency is to get in there and express to opposing view.

 

[Recidiva]

The Lori Drew case is on a thread down the way-- a 49 year old woman stalked a very young teen, megan meier, who had quarrelled with her daughter. She created a false identity on myspace, pretended to be a boy who liked Megan, and "josh" eventually told Megan that she was horrible and hateful.

Megan hung herself.

There are no laws in Missouri, evidently, which cover a case of cyber-stalking. The woman has been in danger of being lynched and the state is desperate to find something they can officially charge her with-- to prevent mob violence.

It's understandable to make decisions about your own fund of energy, we all have to do it, but don't make your own energy level a moral bellwether, huh? In the juicy case, the rumors can be enough to destroy a young person's career before it's gotten started. Even more than that-- the unbridled expressions of homophobia, misogyny, bigotry are very damaging to the fabric of our society. They make other people think that it's okay to think like that and say things like that. The best way to fight that tendency is to get in there and express to opposing view.

I don't think I can be accused of not expressing opposing views.

But I also think other people have a right to their views.

Being homophobic, misogynistic and bigoted is also damaging to someone's career, and there are laws against it.

Young, inexperienced people are at risk in so many ways.

I'm not saying how the world should be. I'm attempting to deal practically with what it is, and what advice I would have given my daughter if someone started screwing with her on MySpace - ignore them. Fortunately my daughter has had her own doses of internet bullshit and she's dealt with them sanely and with humor. She's navigated it successfully. I doubt my son could do the same and I fear for him. But in the end it's up to me to protect him from that by either restricting his online time or making sure I guide him correctly. Otherwise it's a tragedy from beginning to end, someone a predator and someone not avoiding being prey.

I'm counseling against self-inflicted injuries that can be entirely prevented by ignoring other people's negative opinions and how to go about determining that someone else doesn't have your best interests at heart.

There's no way to counsel that young lady now and there's nothing left but tragedy. I grieve for what her relatives have to contend with and they have nothing but my sympathy and hope for healing.