Poly + LDR = our crazy whirlwind

[00Syd]

We've examined a load of scenarios. We've talked about a lot of different things. Yep, we've not discussed what would happen if martians invaded. Thoughtless of me, I know.

YOU HAVEN'T??? Every sensible person has thought deeply about this possible scenario and has a plan. How irresponsible of you! Thoughtless, indeed.

 

[Homburg]

I want to thank Homburg, viv and mis for this thread. Poly is a subject that many people feel strongly about. Your situation bring up some unique challenges, but at least from my POV could really be awesome.

I think it is great that some of the tough questions are being brought up. It is still early in your relationship so many questions don't need to be answered yet.

Of course, it really is none of our business what the three of you decide. I truly appreciate what you have shared with us.

You're welcome, ES. And, yes, we are still in the early stages, and this is another reason why we don't have things set in concrete. I'm glad that you appreciate it.

I honestly look to you as a perfect example of Poly + LDR working. Thank you for sharing your life with us as well.

 

[Homburg]

YOU HAVEN'T??? Every sensible person has thought deeply about this possible scenario and has a plan. How irresponsible of you! Thoughtless, indeed.

I have thought about what to in case of zombie invasion. Does that help mitigate the irresponsibility?

 

[00Syd]

I have thought about what to in case of zombie invasion. Does that help mitigate the irresponsibility?

Slightly.

 

[Netzach]

Personally, having 3 pairs of hands in the event of zombies seems like the way to go.

That observation of differing levels of scrutiny is a good one. No one's scrutinizing a lot of other people's choices as hard. Suddenly you add a person and all decisions might be bad ones? You don't need a third to start that dialogue. Any decision can be crappy at any time, such is life.

 

[unpredictablebijou]

You know i am NOT poly at all and i will skip that as i have a big respect for what you 3 trying to do. I am a bit skeptic on the matter for "how long" can something like this work? but its none of my business.

How bout some actual stats. This is not from books or anecdotes; these are actual people I know.

My own household: poly, totally open, MMF, 17 years and counting.

A household of our closest friends, with grown children: Married, straight, open, various live in and distance partners, 29 years and counting.

A local open MFF triad of our acquaintance: 14 years and counting.

A local four-person MFFF household of our acquaintance, with multiple kids from various partnerships: 6 years and counting.

None of these relationships show any signs of falling apart any time soon.

Common denominators, as I see them:
Self-awareness
Constant, powerful willingness to communicate
Everyone's there because they want to be there; this is what works for them
Immaculate honesty
Compassion
Flexibility
Constant re-negotiation of space, lifestyle and emotional desires

Point is, if it's in your nature, if it works for you, and if you're willing to do the work for it, these relationships can last longer than most monogamous marriages I've watched.

I'll put my 17 very happy years up against the multiple divorces common in the rest of my family, for example. Three more years and my partnership will have outlasted anyone in my, or my parents', generation, except of course for my great uncle J and his male partner, who have set the family record at 42 years. And counting.

It IS hard not to get defensive, occasionally. I do see Bunny's point; I'm not in someone else's thread questioning the value or workability of their monogamous commitment. If that's what you want, cool. I'm not recruiting anyone to poly. Quite the contrary; I tend to start my classes and workshops with a little riff that goes, "DO NOT DO THIS. It's too hard and too complicated. But if you're already doing it; if this is your nature, then you're going to need some tools or you're going to fuck up your life. That's where I come in."

What strikes me as funny is how we can refrain from judging the most astounding things in here: pain, scatology, humiliation, etc. But polyamory somehow is harder to deal with than someone who wants to be pegged with fresh ginger or tied to a dentist chair and tortured. (Not judging those: Big fan of both, just to clarify.) It does occasionally feel like a double standard, not just here but in the leather community in general, when I interact in person with those groups.

Meh. These three have taken on a very wild, very risky thing and I'll lend every bit of support I can, knowing there are always potential pitfalls. You just gotta find the thing that works for you, sculpt it carefully and stay very, very flexible and compassionate.

my two scents.

bj

 

[BiBunny]

I am not starting any judgmental cunt-fest here Bunny, so be nice please. I asked because i was really thinking about this and about HOW viv might feel with time. Same with MIS. I hate seeing as people get hurt, i am sorry. And i cannot see this to end different. But thats just my own nerdy and very antipoly opinion, nothing you should worry about.

I wasn't singling you out, however it may have looked. I just get aggravated that every time we try to discuss this like rational adults, the same old people have to come in and make the same old tired arguments. bj said it better than I did up there. ^^^^

And, let's face it, poly or no, in most relationships, somebody's going to get hurt. I think your perceptions of poly are colored by your own experiences, but some of us genuinely love this lifestyle. Nothing--and I mean nothing--lasts forever. It's something Yeti and I were talking about the other day. You can't live your life in fear of what may go wrong. Something will screw up eventually, despite your best efforts. The best thing any of us can do is know that it won't last forever and enjoy the here and now.

 

[kinky_meh]

How bout some actual stats. This is not from books or anecdotes; these are actual people I know.

My own household: poly, totally open, MMF, 17 years and counting.

A household of our closest friends, with grown children: Married, straight, open, various live in and distance partners, 29 years and counting.

A local open MFF triad of our acquaintance: 14 years and counting.

A local four-person MFFF household of our acquaintance, with multiple kids from various partnerships: 6 years and counting.

None of these relationships show any signs of falling apart any time soon.

Common denominators, as I see them:
Self-awareness
Constant, powerful willingness to communicate
Everyone's there because they want to be there; this is what works for them
Immaculate honesty
Compassion
Flexibility
Constant re-negotiation of space, lifestyle and emotional desires

Point is, if it's in your nature, if it works for you, and if you're willing to do the work for it, these relationships can last longer than most monogamous marriages I've watched.

I'll put my 17 very happy years up against the multiple divorces common in the rest of my family, for example. Three more years and my partnership will have outlasted anyone in my, or my parents', generation, except of course for my great uncle J and his male partner, who have set the family record at 42 years. And counting.

It IS hard not to get defensive, occasionally. I do see Bunny's point; I'm not in someone else's thread questioning the value or workability of their monogamous commitment. If that's what you want, cool. I'm not recruiting anyone to poly. Quite the contrary; I tend to start my classes and workshops with a little riff that goes, "DO NOT DO THIS. It's too hard and too complicated. But if you're already doing it; if this is your nature, then you're going to need some tools or you're going to fuck up your life. That's where I come in."

What strikes me as funny is how we can refrain from judging the most astounding things in here: pain, scatology, humiliation, etc. But polyamory somehow is harder to deal with than someone who wants to be pegged with fresh ginger or tied to a dentist chair and tortured. (Not judging those: Big fan of both, just to clarify.) It does occasionally feel like a double standard, not just here but in the leather community in general, when I interact in person with those groups.

Meh. These three have taken on a very wild, very risky thing and I'll lend every bit of support I can, knowing there are always potential pitfalls. You just gotta find the thing that works for you, sculpt it carefully and stay very, very flexible and compassionate.

my two scents.

bj

ok

I am sorry.

 

[myinnerslut]

i have been out of the house all day and havnt had a chance to read this thread until now. i have to say, wow, you all have been busy.

i would like to take this oppurtunity to assure anyone and everyone that the desicion to join as a triad was not one that was made lightly. there was a lot of talk about the feelings of all the participants of the triad. there was a lot of talk about the future. there was a lot of talk about family. there was a lot of talk about the children. there was a lot of talk about my future and career.

mostly there was a lot of talk about the fact that we love each other and becuase of that will do whatever it is that we need to do to make this work. despite being many states away. despite the age difference. despite the religious difference. despite any of the potential issues (which have all been discussed to death).

i hope that answered some questions and alleviated some concerns as to my future and our relationship.

 

[unpredictablebijou]

ok

I am sorry.

no no, baby, like Bunny, I wasn't singling you out. It's true that we get a bit defensive and tend to jump on shit.

Particularly this week. Anyone else noticed a stationary Mood Front hovering over the midwest, the country, the whole world?

bj

 

[intothewoods]

To get back to your post, MIS, about your parents...

What do you think this is really about with them? If I were MIS's mother, I would certainly have and state my concerns. I'd be upset, sure. But I don't think I'd call you a homewrecker. I mean, I find it very bizarre that they grudgingly accepted the age issue and issue of children and then say, wait, you'll be the other woman! My immediate reaction is, is this about them or you? It may be that they have a certain dream for you - even the best parents aren't impervious to projecting a little onto their kids. Maybe they want you to get married and have kids, in a traditional way. And so they're disappointed.

It's hard to give advice without knowing more about your parents, but I think I would say that viv is an adult, and she and h made the decision together. And that you really appreciate their concern, but you are going into this consciously, and fully aware of the choice you're making.

 

[Homburg]

Personally, having 3 pairs of hands in the event of zombies seems like the way to go.

Yup.

"viv, get me more shotgun ammo. MIS, reinforce the door. Kids, stay in the upstairs bathroom til morning."

That said, any time you'd like to share Bull's hands, I hear he does good work, and MIS' shoulder could probably use it.

That observation of differing levels of scrutiny is a good one. No one's scrutinizing a lot of other people's choices as hard. Suddenly you add a person and all decisions might be bad ones? You don't need a third to start that dialogue. Any decision can be crappy at any time, such is life.

QFT.

----

It IS hard not to get defensive, occasionally. I do see Bunny's point; I'm not in someone else's thread questioning the value or workability of their monogamous commitment. If that's what you want, cool. I'm not recruiting anyone to poly. Quite the contrary; I tend to start my classes and workshops with a little riff that goes, "DO NOT DO THIS. It's too hard and too complicated. But if you're already doing it; if this is your nature, then you're going to need some tools or you're going to fuck up your life. That's where I come in."

This line is the biggest one I took away from our discussions on poly, and the one I've repeated more often to friends that were curious.

What strikes me as funny is how we can refrain from judging the most astounding things in here: pain, scatology, humiliation, etc. But polyamory somehow is harder to deal with than someone who wants to be pegged with fresh ginger or tied to a dentist chair and tortured. (Not judging those: Big fan of both, just to clarify.) It does occasionally feel like a double standard, not just here but in the leather community in general, when I interact in person with those groups.

It's a totally seperate kink, and some folks possess that same judgemental ubernilla mentality about kinks that are not their own. It's just like the submissive that freaks out when she finds out her husband is into private cross-dressing.

I prefer to take the stance of "Just don't get your kink on me", so long as it is consensual.

Meh. These three have taken on a very wild, very risky thing and I'll lend every bit of support I can, knowing there are always potential pitfalls. You just gotta find the thing that works for you, sculpt it carefully and stay very, very flexible and compassionate.

my two scents.

bj

Thanks you, darlin. Your support has been greatly appreciated, if I haven't told you that recently.

 

[Homburg]

To get back to your post, MIS, about your parents...

What do you think this is really about with them? If I were MIS's mother, I would certainly have and state my concerns. I'd be upset, sure. But I don't think I'd call you a homewrecker.

Yeah, I found this statement a bit weird too. Then again, the whole situation is weird.

I'm possibly going to be meeting her dad soon. Scares the hell out of me. I have two daughters, and I find that I am putting myself into his shoes, imagining how I would feel if one of mine does this 10-15 years from now. I gotta admit that I'm not looking too kindly upon myself when I use that lens.

That said, she's happy. Honestly happy. He notices that, and has said that he wants to meet the guy that has made his little girl so happy. I'm holding tight to that, because I'm more nervous about meeting her dad than I was about asking viv's dad for his okay to marry his daughter. And that was frikken scary. Then again, when I did that I'd known viv's dad for a while, and I was considerably younger and thus more headstrong. *shrug* I'm older now, and have the perspective that only becoming a parent can bring, and that perspective has me questioning a lot of what I'm doing because I'm looking at this as a father with two daughters of his own. In the end, just like my attitude towards my own kids, I'm hoping that he will just want her to be happy and safe, and I can probably pass those quals.

And I will say that, wow, my kids will get so little grief from me about any odd relationship choices they might make.

Personally, I think meeting her dad will probably help him with his doubts. Assuming we get along, a meeting will humanise me, and give that all important "look each other in the eye" moment. With her mom, it will probably just be a matter of time.

 

[intothewoods]

What strikes me as funny is how we can refrain from judging the most astounding things in here: pain, scatology, humiliation, etc. But polyamory somehow is harder to deal with than someone who wants to be pegged with fresh ginger or tied to a dentist chair and tortured. (Not judging those: Big fan of both, just to clarify.) It does occasionally feel like a double standard, not just here but in the leather community in general, when I interact in person with those groups.

Meh. These three have taken on a very wild, very risky thing and I'll lend every bit of support I can, knowing there are always potential pitfalls. You just gotta find the thing that works for you, sculpt it carefully and stay very, very flexible and compassionate.

my two scents.

bj

I hear you, although I will say that not all of us subscribe to the 'who am I to judge' philosophy, and that applies to every topic here. On the other hand, I think the criticisms are better kept to a more general dicussion of the topic, or in cases where individuals ask, what do I do? I'm so upset, what can I do, etc.

 

[intothewoods]

Yeah, I found this statement a bit weird too. Then again, the whole situation is weird.

I'm possibly going to be meeting her dad soon. Scares the hell out of me. I have two daughters, and I find that I am putting myself into his shoes, imagining how I would feel if one of mine does this 10-15 years from now. I gotta admit that I'm not looking too kindly upon myself when I use that lens.

That said, she's happy. Honestly happy. He notices that, and has said that he wants to meet the guy that has made his little girl so happy. I'm holding tight to that, because I'm more nervous about meeting her dad than I was about asking viv's dad for his okay to marry his daughter. And that was frikken scary. Then again, when I did that I'd known viv's dad for a while, and I was considerably younger and thus more headstrong. *shrug* I'm older now, and have the perspective that only becoming a parent can bring, and that perspective has me questioning a lot of what I'm doing because I'm looking at this as a father with two daughters of his own. In the end, just like my attitude towards my own kids, I'm hoping that he will just want her to be happy and safe, and I can probably pass those quals.

And I will say that, wow, my kids will get so little grief from me about any odd relationship choices they might make.

Personally, I think meeting her dad will probably help him with his doubts. Assuming we get along, a meeting will humanise me, and give that all important "look each other in the eye" moment. With her mom, it will probably just be a matter of time.

If it were me (and it's not, of course), I'd want to meet viv. I'd want to know what you two have considered with respect to your entire family. But maybe he's not concerned about that. Her mother might be though.

 

[Homburg]

If it were me (and it's not, of course), I'd want to meet viv. I'd want to know what you two have considered with respect to your entire family. But maybe he's not concerned about that. Her mother might be though.

*nod* I hope to be able to arrange that. Right at this moment, he wants to meet me. Given that I'm the guy tying up his daughter and beating her, I can kinda understand why he would want to meet me first. To my knowledge, her mother hasn't discussed any sort of meeting at all.

 

[Daddy2mylilgirl]

I think everyone is in a poly relationship of some kind.

If you are a parent and have more than one child then you already know how to love more than one person.

If you have a significant other then you know how to balance your time with them and your friends so no one gets jealous or resentful.

If you are a single parent and find a new significant other then you have to know the right way to incorporate that new person into your life and your child's life.

Yes, I know it's not the same. I know the love between parent/child is different from partner/partner but the principles are still the same.

It just shows that any person can love, care for, nurture, and have a lasting relationship with more than one person.

*shrug* I don't know if I make any sense but it helped me to better understand poly relationships to think of it in this context.

Good luck Homburg, viv, and MIS.

 

[FurryFury]

I wasn't singling you out, however it may have looked. I just get aggravated that every time we try to discuss this like rational adults, the same old people have to come in and make the same old tired arguments. bj said it better than I did up there. ^^^^

And, let's face it, poly or no, in most relationships, somebody's going to get hurt. I think your perceptions of poly are colored by your own experiences, but some of us genuinely love this lifestyle. Nothing--and I mean nothing--lasts forever. It's something Yeti and I were talking about the other day. You can't live your life in fear of what may go wrong. Something will screw up eventually, despite your best efforts. The best thing any of us can do is know that it won't last forever and enjoy the here and now.

Great post!

That's my philosophy although sometimes I fail to live it. I get scared sometimes and hate myself when I do.

 

[Netzach]

I'm either really charmed or really in denial, but the open part of my relationships is like, often the easiest part.

 

[BiBunny]

Great post!

That's my philosophy although sometimes I fail to live it. I get scared sometimes and hate myself when I do.

Me, too. I'm kinda new to doing it this way. But I've started realizing that I screw myself over a lot more by *not* doing things I want to do than by doing them. I've lived in fear of the unknown most of my life, and I feel like I've really missed some important things because of it. I'm trying to change, though I still find myself slipping back into old habits sometimes.

I'm either really charmed or really in denial, but the open part of my relationships is like, often the easiest part.

Me, too. I think it has something to do with the fact that I'm really, really upfront about what I want. "I want to fuck other people. You'll never be my one and only. Can you deal with that?" If the answer's yes, then great. If not, back to the drawing board.

 

[Netzach]

Me, too. I'm kinda new to doing it this way. But I've started realizing that I screw myself over a lot more by *not* doing things I want to do than by doing them. I've lived in fear of the unknown most of my life, and I feel like I've really missed some important things because of it. I'm trying to change, though I still find myself slipping back into old habits sometimes.



Me, too. I think it has something to do with the fact that I'm really, really upfront about what I want. "I want to fuck other people. You'll never be my one and only. Can you deal with that?" If the answer's yes, then great. If not, back to the drawing board.

True, I've been fortunate enough to know that I need to start on that foot at this point in my life. The people who embrace that stick.

 

[BiBunny]

True, I've been fortunate enough to know that I need to start on that foot at this point in my life. The people who embrace that stick.

Me, too. I really do think it works out better this way in the long run.

 

[SubKekiLee]

I think everyone is in a poly relationship of some kind.

If you are a parent and have more than one child then you already know how to love more than one person.

If you have a significant other then you know how to balance your time with them and your friends so no one gets jealous or resentful.

If you are a single parent and find a new significant other then you have to know the right way to incorporate that new person into your life and your child's life.

Yes, I know it's not the same. I know the love between parent/child is different from partner/partner but the principles are still the same.

It just shows that any person can love, care for, nurture, and have a lasting relationship with more than one person.

*shrug* I don't know if I make any sense but it helped me to better understand poly relationships to think of it in this context.
QUOTE]

This is exactly how I feel... But midstream america has been beating it into everyone you MUST be monogamous for so long that everyone thinks you have to be.. we are the only mammals that feel that way... I think you should be how it feels right to be for you we are NO JUDGE NO JURY you have to impress one person in this life.. YOURSELF if you can look yourself inthe mirror everyday and be proud of who you are so be it...

Daddy2mylilgirl you couldnt have said it better..

 

[serijules]

Its no secret I AM AGAINST poly yup. I am jelaous fuck, i know i am, i could never ever do this. I might do this to please my Master, but i would suffer like a dog, inside. I was thinking about viv many many times lately and about how shes really feeling about this. I think we sub's often do things "just" to please our Master... What i am saying is, have viv ever told you shes dreaming about sharing you with another woman Homburg?? I am asking cuz i dunno much woman who dream about it lol. I dunno any actualy. What you do is your thing, i am just trying to say you should be 150% sure that you wont hurt your wife badly with time, as i feel you would hate to do that...

Just my 2 cents.

Anyways, fingers crossed for you 3. I hope everything will work out as you wish.

You don't "get" poly. I don't "get" replies like yours.

Why post about something you don't support, even for others? It comes across as very judgemental. The opinions of those who have some sort of bizarre issue with what works for others and makes them happy really isn't necessary in a thread that is celebrating poly. Seriously. If the topic was "list all the ways poly doesn't work (even though you have zero experience with it)" then that's where your reply would be welcome and a welcome contribution.

You say you don't know any women who dream about it....that's probably because you wouldn't get along with any women that feel that way since yoru own attitude is obviously not supportive. I certainly wouldn't be getting to know you and sharing my dreams with you, if that's the attitude you display, you know? It's not them...it's you. Based on the number of poly relationships out there, I'd say yes, there are plenty of women who dream about it.

 

[serijules]

I hate seeing as people get hurt, i am sorry. And i cannot see this to end different.

And you don't see your attitude and replies as being hurtful?

Sorry, that doesn't match up for me.