Coming to the Tipping Point: Gas is Just too Expensive!

[amicus]

Not that it matters, but it rather makes the point that the left will tolerate any inconvenience rather than question their own failed policies.

While the true believers will not, most rational people will acknowledge that forty years of no growth, eco, green oriented, not in my back yard, no exploration for fuel sources, no mining, no drilling, no oil wells, no refineries, no nukes, the whole eco mantra of the left, is fully and truly responsible for high gas prices.

And....t'will get a lot worse before(if) it ever gets any better.

Ami...

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

Not that it matters, but it rather makes the point that the left will tolerate any inconvenience rather than question their own failed policies.

While the true believers will not, most rational people will acknowledge that forty years of no growth, eco, green oriented, not in my back yard, no exploration for fuel sources, no mining, no drilling, no oil wells, no refineries, no nukes, the whole eco mantra of the left, is fully and truly responsible for high gas prices.

And....t'will get a lot worse before(if) it ever gets any better.

Ami...

If you want to say "no growth," Ami then you need to explain why two Bush Adminstrations have taken the U.S. into deep recessions. And don't try and blame the Clintons. That old line is way too frayed with unbelivablilty given the current state of the economy.

Food it high because of fuel prices. The employment roster is shrinking (ergo the "housing crunch") because of fuel prices. The USGS is pointing out new sources of oil regularly, but the oil companies don't plan on taking advantage of the information. The refineries along the gulf coast were destroyed by Katrina. How many were rebuilt?

The list goes on.

 

[amicus]

Dear Jenny....sighs....the Gulf Coast refineries were repaired and back in production with six months of Katrina.

The profit return for the five major oil companies runs at 8% on investment, you could make more return on your money by investing in Walmart stocks, oh, thas right, you hate Walmart too, sorry...

Amicus...

 

[Weird Harold]

...I don't know how fast the engineers are allowed to go but I do know that I've seen and ridden some Metra trains that were just booking it between stops, ...

I believe the US speed limit for trains is 72 MPH except for specially certified sections of track in the eastern corridor used for high-speed passenger service where Amtak's high-speed trains can hit 100+ MPH. But those speeds require both specially maintained/certified tracks and special engines and cars.

Even at lower speeds, trains are simply impossible to stop in anything like short distances -- at 45 MPH, a typical passenger train requires almost a half mile to come to a complete stop under perfect conditions. More importantly,Trains can't swerve to miss something on the track.

The local RTA made in interesting (and possibly wise) choice for their "fixed guideway" project -- a system that doesn't require a "guideway" (although it can use specially painted lines to automatically line up at stops) and can temporarily or permanently change it's route and stops without construction of new tracks. It's the same Irisbus built diesel-electric coaches they use for the existing MAX line.

There is a monorail in town, but the cost of the various schemes for extending it are horredously expensive and the proposed routes keep changing. (It initially used second hand, second generation Disneyworld trains.) I have to wonder if the cost of monorail or light-rail tracks wouldn't be better spent on twice as much capacity in conventional or hybrid busses and dedicated bus lanes?

 

[Stella_Omega]

The MAX drivers have a really bad rep for that kind of thing, actually. Now they have added commuter trains and I believe one of the requirements to drive those is KAMAKAZE training. They've killed a number of people over the past couple of years - in cars and pedestrians.

That kind of thing will stop as more and more middle-class people begin using the system. Yuppies won't stand for it.

 

[matriarch]

I live 3 miles from my work, and I drive, despite the fact it costs me £35 ($70)a go to fill up my little old car, to do just over 300 miles.

There are buses every 9 minutes which stop right outside the prison, but it's a mile walk from my house to the bus stop - up hill. In English winter weather? No thanks. And the cost.......£3.00 each way...that's £6 a day.....

Sorry, despite the cost of gas, I'm sticking to my car.

 

[Weird Harold]

The coldly analytical part of me thinks that increased gas prices are actually a good thing, especially in the long term. It encourages people to seek out public transportation, ride share, and live closer to their work site. It also encourages auto manufacturers to come up with move efficient cars and alternative fuel sources. ...

Actually, it encourages automakers -- at least US automakers to come up with marketing scams that unload inventories of their less desireable, less efficient lines at less cost to the companies than conventinal rebate and reduced price offers:

See Chryslers Refuel America campaign, guaranteeing gas prices of $2.999/gal for three years or their competitor's copycat campaigns. Critics of the campaign estimate it will cost Chrysler about $400/car (sold at or near full MSRP) as opposed to more conventional $2,000 MFR's Rebate campaigns.

It's a brilliant marketing plan, feeding on the fear of ever rising fuel costs, but it relies on the American consumers' limited vision through their navels ('cause thy've go their heads up their butts) and does nothing to decrease the number of gas-guzzling SUVs on the roads.

The USGS is pointing out new sources of oil regularly, but the oil companies don't plan on taking advantage of the information.

On May 8th, the associated Press reported on the American Petroleum Institute's statistical report for calendar year 2006; the Headline was $109.8 Billion spent on oil exploration.

That 109.8 Billion dollars was actually spent on drilling and equipping new gas and oil wells with about 30% going to "dry holes." Perhaps the oil companies aren't jumping on every new USGS "find" because they don't have the budget for more exploration and equipment -- or maybe they don't just have mineral rights to the USGS "finds."

The absolute numbers of oil company profits are astounding, but they are among the lowest profit margins among major corporations.

 

[amicus]

Not that you will agree, Matriarch, especially coming from me, but a government monopoly on transportation is a most dangerous path to follow.

Your six pounds per day for transportation does not go to improve services, but to pay the inflated wages of government employees who, if anything like public servants here, DMV, Post Office, License officials, are surly and uncaring about the public.

Further, should the powers that be decide to suddenly stop the tranny system, where are you then? And governments have been known to take such punitive actions on a whim.

Amicus...

 

[Stella_Omega]

The absolute numbers of oil company profits are astounding, but they are among the lowest profit margins among major corporations.

That's what volume will do for a business. In my biz, if I sell my goods one-at-a-time at full retail, I don't see as much real money as I do when I supply in bulk to an equipment manufacturer at ten cents over my cost.

Those hedge fund guys who are taking home seven billion a year-- their earning are *only* 2% of their clients' profits.

But-- as you say-- the absolute numbers are astounding.

 

[matriarch]

Not that you will agree, Matriarch, especially coming from me, but a government monopoly on transportation is a most dangerous path to follow.

Your six pounds per day for transportation does not go to improve services, but to pay the inflated wages of government employees who, if anything like public servants here, DMV, Post Office, License officials, are surly and uncaring about the public.

Further, should the powers that be decide to suddenly stop the tranny system, where are you then? And governments have been known to take such punitive actions on a whim.

Amicus...

The bus company I refer to is a private company. It is the only one in this area, and has a complete monopoly. It is nothing to do with government - local or central. Very few of our bus companies are government owned. A few of the bigger cities (unlike USA, our cities are few and far between. The rest are towns, plain and simple) run their own bus companies. Most of the UK bus users depend on private bus companies - good old capitalism in action.

The only government rule they have to abide by, is the one giving free bass passes to all pensioners - women over 60 and men over 65. For that concession the local council pays a subsidy to the bus company.

 

[amicus]

Not that I challenge your assertions at all, but I keep hearing from Oggbashan and you and others, from England, that government really doesn't manage the affairs of the people and that private enterprise is flourishing.

Either the media sources which I depend on are fallacious when they speak of the faults of a social democracy, exemplified by shortages and hardships in England, or I am so biased in my opinions that I color all the information to suit my basic premises.

So, I guess all is well in Limey land? Good to hear that.

Amicus...

 

[JagFarlane]

That kind of thing will stop as more and more middle-class people begin using the system. Yuppies won't stand for it.

Really? So what are they going to do about it? Install 20' electrified fences along each side of a track? Trust me, the rail companies would love something that would effectively stop people from committing suicide upon thier rails. Why? Simple...it costs them huge amounts of cash. The day my train hit the trespasser, that person cost Amtrak in delays, canceled tickets, cost of food [they gave out the trains supply of food to the people stuck on the train], bus fares for some, as well as having to inspect the undercarriage of the train and its cars before it could go back into service.

 

[Stella_Omega]

No, I was talking about the rude and semi-brutal behaviour of the operator-- that Jenny was talking about. I grabbed the wrong quote...

What will stop human stupidity regarding the tracks? I don't have an answer for that. Maybe having more than one generation grow up with the crossings might help. Maybe special classes to teach the difference between gaming and real life would make a difference for certain classes of our citizens.

I lived almost two years in Zurich, late 1970's. I don't recollect that the trams were involved in many accidents, and I don't remember hearing about any fatalities. They went kinda slow, though, and I doubt that Americans would tolerate slow speeds.

 

[JagFarlane]

No, I was talking about the rude and semi-brutal behaviour of the operator-- that Jenny was talking about. I grabbed the wrong quote...

What will stop human stupidity regarding the tracks? I don't have an answer for that. Maybe having more than one generation grow up with the crossings might help. Maybe special classes to teach the difference between gaming and real life would make a difference for certain classes of our citizens.

I lived almost two years in Zurich, late 1970's. I don't recollect that the trams were involved in many accidents, and I don't remember hearing about any fatalities. They went kinda slow, though, and I doubt that Americans would tolerate slow speeds.

Ahhhh ok lol.

Mmmm that was also the 1970's...train technology has made rapid leaps forwards and thus allowing for faster transportation. And considering the train industry has to compete with airlines, they, of course, want faster trains, thus Amtrak's Acela train and of course, the supertrains over in Japan.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Yeah, like i said, Americans won't tolerate slow speeds.

But you know, the airlines are not going to last any longer than the automobiles will, once the gas crunch really hits. We will become a world of dirigible users-- big, graceful, elegant, and... slow.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Yeah, like i said, Americans won't tolerate slow speeds.

But you know, the airlines are not going to last any longer than the automobiles will, once the gas crunch really hits. We will become a world of dirigible users-- big, graceful, elegant, and... slow.

Not dirigibles, they're inherently unsafe. Blimps I could do. However, to get back on the cost of fuel, supply and demand in today's world doesn't support a price of more than about $80/barrel according to an analysis I read. The rest of it is all due to commodities speculators trying to make an extra $.001 profit each quarter. It's all another bubble and Hell will break loose when it pops. It will make the dot.com meltdown look like peanuts.

Does your pension fund "invest" on hedge funds?

 

[JagFarlane]

Interesting...Mercedes Benz just brought over in January a new car. Its a little two seater, no trunk, and by little I mean 6' long. However it gets 50mpg, and costs about 13K base price. If you're curious, you can find it here:

Smart Car

 

[rgraham666]

And when nanotech gets going, you won't need to use lighter than air gases. They'll be able to build the airships where the lifting bags are mostly vacuum.

Also, I gather the TGV, Train à Grande Vitesse being used to link cities in Europe. Faster than planes because it takes you from downtown to downtown.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Not dirigibles, they're inherently unsafe. Blimps I could do. However, to get back on the cost of fuel, supply and demand in today's world doesn't support a price of more than about $80/barrel according to an analysis I read. The rest of it is all due to commodities speculators trying to make an extra $.001 profit each quarter. It's all another bubble and Hell will break loose when it pops. It will make the dot.com meltdown look like peanuts.

Does your pension fund "invest" on hedge funds?

My pension, sir? Why, whatever do you mean?

Or;

Pensions? We don't need no stinkin' pensions!

I have no pension, I'm an entrepreneur. Unwillingly, I might say.

I don't understand hedge funds and there's something repellent to me in making money out of making money out of... how much further into virtual reality could it get!

 

[amicus]

Heard on the news just today, India is manufacturing and selling a car for $2500.00 American...heard no further details....

ami

 

[amicus]

Some still adhere to the old biblical sin of Usury? OMG! How ancient!

there's something repellent to me in making money out of making money

Right back to the dark ages, now how silly is that? I suppose you believe in circumcision, also?

ahem...

Amicus...

 

[Stella_Omega]

And when nanotech gets going, you won't need to use lighter than air gases. They'll be able to build the airships where the lifting bags are mostly vacuum.

Also, I gather the TGV, Train à Grande Vitesse being used to link cities in Europe. Faster than planes because it takes you from downtown to downtown.

Ah, yeah there's that-- Say the plane trip is a four-hour hop, but leaving the house on time and getting to the airport a minimum of two hours in advance--three is better for the big airports-- makes eight, plus the hour-and-a-half waiting for luggage and finding your way out of the destination, plus however long it takes you to get from the out-laying area to the place you need to be.
Twelve hours of adrenaline-fueled travel, sometimes. Certainly better than months in a wagon train, but two days on a comfortable train would be easier on the body and soul, all things considered and the quality of airline food being what it is these days...

 

[amicus]

You can't afford a train ride, they run on diesel, ahem and they have outlawed coal fired boilers on trains, besides coal is expensive too!

Youse bums are gonna get your wishes in spades, back to horse and wagon days, hope y'all like horsepoop!

amicus...

 

[R. Richard]

Heard on the news just today, India is manufacturing and selling a car for $2500.00 American...heard no further details....

ami

The Tata Motors People’s Car has a rear-wheel drive, all-aluminium, two-cylinder, 623 cc, 33 PS, multi point fuel injection petrol engine. This is the first time that a two-cylinder gasoline engine is being used in a car with single balancer shaft. The lean design strategy has helped minimise weight, which helps maximise performance per unit of energy consumed and delivers high fuel efficiency. Performance is controlled by a specially designed electronic engine management system.

 

[S-Des]

One of my friends told me an interesting statistic about the train conductors in Boston. Apparently the average conductor who works a full career will end up killing at least one person, mostly suicides. Apparently they have a program in place to help the conductors deal with this because it happens often enough. Basically if you are driving a train and someone is standing on the tracks, there is nothing you can do.

We had a horrific accident here (in Cary, Illinois) about 15 years ago. A school bus was crossing the train tracks when the light on the other side changed. The car in front of the bus decided not to go, stranding the bus on the tracks. About 10 seconds later the kids heard the train whistle and began running towards the front, screaming for the driver to move. Evidently the woman panicked because she did nothing (obviously the bus was big enough to push the car in front) and the train hit the bus at about 70 mph killing seven of the students. The incident changed the crossing laws for the entire state, so now when a train is approaching, the light changes in case anyone is stopped on or near the tracks. The maximum speed trains are allowed to travel was also changed.

I can't even imagine the kind of pain that train's operator had to deal with. Seeing a school bus stopped in front, knowing there's nothing he could do to stop.....just terrible. {shudder}