Innocence Passing (my 1st story ever)...

[Ms_Vyxyn]

Hi everyone. I've been a reader here for years, and finally decided to try my hand at creating a story myself. While I'm uneducated and have no prior writing experience, I feel that I have learned quite a bit from the process of writing my first story...

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=363612

...especially with the wonderful help of volunteer editor "Lokeman". [He did more than just edit-- he taught me through my mistakes.] May your orgasms be deep & plentiful kind sir!

One thing I learned is that writing (well) is much harder than one might guess, and it will take a whole lot more than one story to learn the art of it. I'm already started on my next tale, but I know there is more I can learn still from the first one. I'd appreciate any feedback you all might be willing to offer.

Warning though: my story is long (27k words - 8 lit. pages) and contains a variety of different kinks.

So if you have an open mind and are bored enough, please check out "Innocence Passing" (link above) and tell me how I might have done it better.

Thank you very much,

Vyxyn


P.S.- I already know there is a glaring mistake half-way down the first page-- that's what I get for not editing my edits, lol.

 

[where]

blimey, you aren't wrong about it being long! Didn't stop me reading till the end though!

I expect there will be comments about it being in the first person, but I thought it worked really well. I do think it could have been a bit shorter maybe... There was a lot of padding it seemed to me.

Either way, it's a fantastic first submission (fnar fnar!) and testament to the powers of a good editor.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

Son of a Bitch! I ain't reading this for three reasons.

First it's 8 fucking Lit pages long. It's a bloody novella. I did read the first few pages, but...

Second for a first try, you really need to go back and write a few "Short Stories" first. (Short Story = A well writting story which can be read in a single sitting.) Somehow, I don't think the first thing Tolstoy wrote was "War & Peace."

Finally, It's BDSM. Nope... I don't go there.

But I will say, your first paragraph was reason enough to not bother reading farther. It's drab and un-inspired. <Back Click> Although I did force myself to read the first couple of pages. The writing, for the most part, seemed okay, but not really engaging.

Trust me, if you want to learn to write, you would do a lot better with 2500 or 3000 words than with 25,000. Learning to write is: write, review, correct. Write, review, correct... That's a lot easier to do if the story isn't monumental.

 

[manyeyedhydra]

Yipesies. It is on the long side.

8 pages is definitely in the non light reading category That will probably scare a few folks off. A common strategy is to break the story down into 3-5'000 word bite-sized chapters and release them over a few days. It's less scary that way.

Jenny makes some good points about getting some practice in with short stories first.

I only read the first page, but the writing seemed pretty good. The pace is slow and it's probably more suited to the printed page rather than a computer screen, but it did have a Victorian-style fantasy feel to it that came through strongly.

I liked the style, but I wasn't so hooked on the story. Same problem I have with a lot of BDSM. I don't understand the D/s dynamic and find it hard to relate to the characters.

 

[Guest]

I do get the BDSM dynamic, but I'm afraid I'm too tired to read the entire story tonight and do it justice. From what I did read, this is an astonishingly good first effort. Keep that in mind as you read the rest.

Three things:

As far as I'm concerned, your story begins here, not with over 500 words of narrative that lacks a hook:

I've read tales of evil, abusive mistresses, and of wonderful, caring ones, of spoiled, impudent slaves, and of eagerly submissive ones. My own Mistress has now owned me since my birthday four months ago, and is among the very best; much better in fact than I could have hoped for.

Work the back story in later; you've got to grab the reader's attention with the opening paragraph.

Secondly, the time setting of the story bothers me--this appears to be a pre-industrial culture (hence the carriage and horses and a total lack of any form of technology in the part that I read), yet there are references to "baby-doll pink," of which wiwkipedia says:

"It is said the name was popularized by the 1956 movie Baby Doll starring Carroll Baker in the title role, which essentially marked the beginning of the enduring popularity of the style for adults."

There are also references to a "black sateen teddy," a "thin, pale pink, gauzy halter-dress with a short flared skirt at the waist," and "Some pearly white thigh-high stockings." What century are we in? The modern references seem jarring. Perhaps it's that I didn't read far enough?

Finally (again, as far as I read) Mistress Kathryn remains in her role at all times. I understand that quite a bit of BDSM fiction favors this approach (I don't, and worked hard to humanize the character of Most Beloved Mistress in my own BDSM series) but it can render the character almost a caricature, flat and uninteresting.

 

[The_Fractal_King]

Hi everyone. I've been a reader here for years, and finally decided to try my hand at creating a story myself. While I'm uneducated and have no prior writing experience, I feel that I have learned quite a bit from the process of writing my first story...

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=363612

...especially with the wonderful help of volunteer editor "Lokeman". [He did more than just edit-- he taught me through my mistakes.] May your orgasms be deep & plentiful kind sir!

One thing I learned is that writing (well) is much harder than one might guess, and it will take a whole lot more than one story to learn the art of it. I'm already started on my next tale, but I know there is more I can learn still from the first one. I'd appreciate any feedback you all might be willing to offer.

Warning though: my story is long (27k words - 8 lit. pages) and contains a variety of different kinks.

So if you have an open mind and are bored enough, please check out "Innocence Passing" (link above) and tell me how I might have done it better.

Thank you very much,

Vyxyn


P.S.- I already know there is a glaring mistake half-way down the first page-- that's what I get for not editing my edits, lol.

Really needs to be broken into 3 or 4 chapters, simply seeing 8 pages will stop some people from reading no matter how good the story is.

I read the first two pages. You're a very good writer and I very much enjoyed the relaxed nature of the scenes and dialogue (as opposed to the "kneel and suck it" stuff that gets thrown around in the BDSM section all too much).

The basic advice of start close to or during the action applies. I would suggest faster pacing but everyone has their own speed.

On the critical side by the point I got to in the story the main characters were a bit flat--though I felt they were life like--and the relationship between them was a bit limited.


All in all, it's ambitious and well written, just intimidatingly long.

 

[sr71plt]

It's unfortunate you say this was edited (and identify the editor), because it wasn't edited very well at all. Punctuation, grammar, hyphenation problems in just the first three paragraphs. It perhaps was read by a second pair of eyes--but not competently edited. OK as a submission if there was no claim of an edit.

 

[tickledkitty]

The problem I noticed in the beginning with people who volunteered to edit for me was that they weren't really editors, and some of them had no interest in actually editing at all. Honestly, my feeling was that they looked at my name (yeah, I should have chosen more wisely) and made some judgments and acted on them. Then, when I said no, I really do want an editor, they'd disappear. I'm not sure why they would think someone would go to the trouble of writing a story just in order to find someone to have cyber of phone sex with. Weird.

Oh, and BTW, these were not people who are involved in the VE program. They were just random people who saw my request for an editor and PM'd me.

My point is (yeah, I had one) that it's really hard to find a good editor when you're a newbie.

 

[sr71plt]

The problem I noticed in the beginning with people who volunteered to edit for me was that they weren't really editors, and some of them had no interest in actually editing at all. Honestly, my feeling was that they looked at my name (yeah, I should have chosen more wisely) and made some judgments and acted on them. Then, when I said no, I really do want an editor, they'd disappear. I'm not sure why they would think someone would go to the trouble of writing a story just in order to find someone to have cyber of phone sex with. Weird.

Oh, and BTW, these were not people who are involved in the VE program. They were just random people who saw my request for an editor and PM'd me.

My point is (yeah, I had one) that it's really hard to find a good editor when you're a newbie.

Yeah, I see the value of having a second reader. As a professional book editor, though, it bothers me that these people are selling themselves as editors--because most of them aren't anything close to that. They are backup readers. Writers, for the most part, are not getting what they think they are getting. Sometimes what they originally wrote is better than what was done to it by someone pretending to be an editor. And the damage will show up in their next story, as well.

 

[where]

I think the best thing to do about editors is find a writer you like and who writes well and approach them. That's what I did and I think I picked a good 'un. Totally professional and would even chide me if I got vaguely flirtatious or personal. Just a pity he's so damn busy now!

 

[Ms_Vyxyn]

Humble thanks to you all. Very good advice all around, and I can now see all my story's flaws. I must, however, defend my editor: Lokeman. He did NOT edit my story--he showed me examples of my many mistakes, explained what was wrong and why, and then gave direction on how I might correct them. I take full credit for all that's wrong with it. If you want to call him something other than an editor, that's up to you, but it was obvious to me throughout the process that he is very educated, knowledgeable, and thorough in his work.

I'll remove my story now and perhaps re-submit it in the future. Thanks again for your feedback and advice!

Vyxyn

 

[where]

Humble thanks to you all. Very good advice all around, and I can now see all my story's flaws. I must, however, defend my editor: Lokeman. He did NOT edit my story--he showed me examples of my many mistakes, explained what was wrong and why, and then gave direction on how I might correct them. I take full credit for all that's wrong with it. If you want to call him something other than an editor, that's up to you, but it was obvious to me throughout the process that he is very educated, knowledgeable, and thorough in his work.

I'll remove my story now and perhaps re-submit it in the future. Thanks again for your feedback and advice!

Vyxyn

Just get it proof read and resubmit it in chapters. Like I said, I read to the end and I don't even like those kind of stories so must be doing something right!

 

[sr71plt]

Humble thanks to you all. Very good advice all around, and I can now see all my story's flaws. I must, however, defend my editor: Lokeman. He did NOT edit my story--he showed me examples of my many mistakes, explained what was wrong and why, and then gave direction on how I might correct them. I take full credit for all that's wrong with it. If you want to call him something other than an editor, that's up to you, but it was obvious to me throughout the process that he is very educated, knowledgeable, and thorough in his work.

I'll remove my story now and perhaps re-submit it in the future. Thanks again for your feedback and advice!

Vyxyn

Well, umm, OK, but if he didn't edit your story, you really shouldn't be calling him your editor for the story. That's misleading.

 

[where]

Well, umm, OK, but if he didn't edit your story, you really shouldn't be calling him your editor for the story. That's misleading.

I think that if you are new to this, you can be unaware of what an editor actually does. I hit lucky and got a proper one and was stunned at the stuff he did. It was above and beyond what I was expecting.

Now before this, I would have offered to edit a story, but now, no way. Not now I know what editing is about.

I suspect Vyx and Lokeman were like me, not really sure what it entailed.

 

[sr71plt]

I think that if you are new to this, you can be unaware of what an editor actually does. I hit lucky and got a proper one and was stunned at the stuff he did. It was above and beyond what I was expecting.

Now before this, I would have offered to edit a story, but now, no way. Not now I know what editing is about.

I suspect Vyx and Lokeman were like me, not really sure what it entailed.

Agree--although Vyxyn seems to be holding out that Lokeman may really be a competent editor. And that might be true. In which case it's all the more important not to credit Lokeman as the editor of a story that has some (not a lot of) glaring evidence that a competent editor hasn't done an actual copyedit of it. (Which isn't to say the story is badly presented--it just hasn't been edited properly.)

 

[ellynei]

Please stop talking about how this story wasn't edited well enough to be called edited.

Being a complete amateur myself, to me this story doesn't look anywhere near as un-edited as claimed in this thread. When people who knows writing well claims it is, it probably is. It's just not that visible for the untrained eye... (i. e. my eyes.)

Quite frankly it is depressing to have work of this standard referred to in such terms.

I'm a noobie, my own grammer is a nightmare and I couldn't find the immense grammatical issues on the first page, mentioned in this thread.

To me it was easy to read, maybe that just means there is something wrong with me. It would be nice if someone would take a short moment to present one or two examples of the awful punctuation they notice so Vyxyn as well as other beginners who reads here (like me) could learn from it? It is hard to be told something is wrong, when that something is not specified, very confusing.

I don't like being confused

I must admit I also do not understand why a person must be able to edit like a professional for a beginner to be allowed to refer to that person as their editor, or be allowed to say:

"He/she/it helped me lots by editing my work."

What I mean is if I say: "Tomorrow I'm gonna help my sister with some gardening" it wouldn't be considered inferring that I am an educated gardener...


Vyxyn, I only read the first lit page of your story, because it is clearly BDSM (as you so nicely warned in foreword) this it not a genre I usually enjoy, so i stopped at end of first page.

The fairytale setting was enjoyable, interesting and imaginative (I am assuming the time and culture is fictional/fantasy, not a referral to a certain medieval timeperiod).

The intro just below the foreword halted me greatly, I read it twice trying to figure out if this was real or part of the fiction. It still bugs me!!

GnomeDeplume suggested previously in this thread that you should start the story at: "I've read tales of evil abusive..." and work the back-story in later.

I think that sounds like good advice. The beginning of your story is not disinteresting but starting with "I've read.." is not just a more magnetic intro, that will cause fewer back clicks, it is also where the reader begins to understand the theme of the story, (hence the place that would catch the people that will truly enjoy the story, again interpreting from reading one lit page of it).

I don't think it is so bad that you should simply remove it. Quite frankly I don't think it's bad at all... If you got advice that is useful to you, keep working on it, but removing the present version sooner than next is ready seems a bit over the hill to me?

Please remember reason I did not read all is simply the BDSM thing. (Yeah I know I'm weird, I love writing and reading nonconsensual stories that makes many feel directly uncomfortable but I cant read much BDSM D/s without getting a quesy feeling in my gut. Ya know one person's turn on is another's...)

(I hate posting in forum's makes my gut turn with fear of even this impersonal social interaction, please hurt me gently only, I'm not as bad as I sound! Most of the time at least )

 

[The_Fractal_King]

Please stop talking about how this story wasn't edited well enough to be called edited.

Being a complete amateur myself, to me this story doesn't look anywhere near as un-edited as claimed in this thread. When people who knows writing well claims it is, it probably is. It's just not that visible for the untrained eye... (i. e. my eyes.)

Quite frankly it is depressing to have work of this standard referred to in such terms.

I'm a noobie, my own grammer is a nightmare and I couldn't find the immense grammatical issues on the first page, mentioned in this thread.

To me it was easy to read, maybe that just means there is something wrong with me. It would be nice if someone would take a short moment to present one or two examples of the awful punctuation they notice so Vyxyn as well as other beginners who reads here (like me) could learn from it? It is hard to be told something is wrong, when that something is not specified, very confusing.

I'm with you 100% on this. People can be grammar nazis all they like but in the end I think what really matters is that the average reader is not left puzzling over the basic meaning of the text. Personally there was no errors so egregious that I even noticed them.

Please remember reason I did not read all is simply the BDSM thing. (Yeah I know I'm weird, I love writing and reading nonconsensual stories that makes many feel directly uncomfortable but I cant read much BDSM D/s without getting a quesy feeling in my gut. Ya know one person's turn on is another's...)

Bah, you're no fun.

 

[Anna_Malia75]

I'm with you 100% on this. People can be grammar nazis all they like but in the end I think what really matters is that the average reader is not left puzzling over the basic meaning of the text. Personally there was no errors so egregious that I even noticed them.

What really matters to me is whether the editor considers what he/she did to be editing and whether he wants to be credited as the story's editor. Other authors who are interested in obtaining an editor can read the story for themselves and decide whether he/she did a good job. I think that leaving it up to the editor is particularly important when, as is the case here at Lit, you're able to refuse any of his or her edits with which you disagree.

I read the first page of your story, MV. I think you're a very good writer (and the story has an H, after all!). My main suggestion would be too break up your pages with little more dialogue. It's hard on the eyes of an Internet reader (as opposed to a paper book reader) to be presented with screen after screen of long paragraphs. Or at least on the eyes of this Internet reader!

Welcome to Lit. Well done.

 

[sr71plt]

Please stop talking about how this story wasn't edited well enough to be called edited.

Being a complete amateur myself, to me this story doesn't look anywhere near as un-edited as claimed in this thread. When people who knows writing well claims it is, it probably is. It's just not that visible for the untrained eye... (i. e. my eyes.)

Quite frankly it is depressing to have work of this standard referred to in such terms.

Excuse me? I went to great pains to say the story was in good enough shape to be posted at Lit. It's the author who made a point about it being edited. I'm not one to tell people to go get a VE here--I think a second reader is sufficient enough for posting to Lit. (and I doubt there are many VEs here that can give more than that, quite frankly). My focus was on the false expectation that the story had been well edited. It seems fine for posting (the part I looked for)--it just wasn't massaged by a trained editor as the author apparently thought it was.

 

[manyeyedhydra]

It's unfortunate you say this was edited (and identify the editor), because it wasn't edited very well at all. Punctuation, grammar, hyphenation problems in just the first three paragraphs. It perhaps was read by a second pair of eyes--but not competently edited. OK as a submission if there was no claim of an edit.

Could you please point out these problems.

I went through the first three paragraphs with my admittedly untrained eyes and they didn't end up bleeding (except maybe land-holdings should have been just holdings). I'd like to know where the mistakes are because if I can't see them then I'm probably making them myself

To Ms_Vyxyn I'd suggest you don't pull the story. It's too easy to fall into the trap of constantly tinkering on the same piece of work. Leave it up, make a note of the niggles as you find them and then come back and redo it an around six-twelve months. In the meantime follow Jenny's advice and play around with some smaller tales to get your confidence up. My tuppence anyway.

 

[sr71plt]

Could you please point out these problems.

I went through the first three paragraphs with my admittedly untrained eyes and they didn't end up bleeding (except maybe land-holdings should have been just holdings). I'd like to know where the mistakes are because if I can't see them then I'm probably making them myself

To Ms_Vyxyn I'd suggest you don't pull the story. It's too easy to fall into the trap of constantly tinkering on the same piece of work. Leave it up, make a note of the niggles as you find them and then come back and redo it an around six-twelve months. In the meantime follow Jenny's advice and play around with some smaller tales to get your confidence up. My tuppence anyway.

As I noted a couple of times, they are quite minor and don't intrude into the story at all, and are quite acceptable for posting at Lit.--but for a trained editor, they pop right out because they are exactly the sort of thing you focus on in line editing.

"I grew up quietly, somewhat isolated and alone compared to most girls I'd seen. My mother died when I was just an infant, and as a result, I didn't have any brothers or sisters. The few other children in our castle had to work daily, as they were able to, so I had no playmates at home. Since I was rarely allowed in the villagecomma (long introductory clause) I'd made no friends there either. I was fairly contentcomma though, with my books, my art supplies, my pretty dolls, and my nature hikes throughout father's"father" is capitalized when used in place of a name (Father is . . .; my father is . . .) large estate. It had thus far been a pleasant life, but a narrow one.

A variety of handmaidens and tutors raised me, but they showed little interest in my welfare and education, other than the minimum required to maintain their positions within my father's manor. Father has many land-holdingsno hyphen (it's in the dictionary. Editors recheck all hyphenated words, because they usually are rendered incorrectly, even though most are in the dictionary) in this realm,no comma (not an independent clause] and spends almost all of his time traveling throughout his properties or scouting new ones to acquire. I see him quite rarely. He is a solemn man, paying me scant attention when home,no comma but always seeing that I have new books and things with which to amuse myself,no comma and fine, newly made clothes to wear. The various women who raised me were neither kind nor unkind to me, but rather indifferent. I've learned academics well enough from them but next to nothing about the grace and sexuality of womanhood. I kept all my questions and silent yearnings locked secretly inside my heart...these aren't proper publish ellipses--should be spaces around the periods (but not a big issue)until recently.

 

[manyeyedhydra]

As I noted a couple of times, they are quite minor and don't intrude into the story at all, and are quite acceptable for posting at Lit.--but for a trained editor, they pop right out because they are exactly the sort of thing you focus on in line editing.

"I grew up quietly, somewhat isolated and alone compared to most girls I'd seen. My mother died when I was just an infant, and as a result, I didn't have any brothers or sisters. The few other children in our castle had to work daily, as they were able to, so I had no playmates at home. Since I was rarely allowed in the villagecomma (long introductory clause) I'd made no friends there either. I was fairly contentcomma though, with my books, my art supplies, my pretty dolls, and my nature hikes throughout father's"father" is capitalized when used in place of a name (Father is . . .; my father is . . .) large estate. It had thus far been a pleasant life, but a narrow one.

A variety of handmaidens and tutors raised me, but they showed little interest in my welfare and education, other than the minimum required to maintain their positions within my father's manor. Father has many land-holdingsno hyphen (it's in the dictionary. Editors recheck all hyphenated words, because they usually are rendered incorrectly, even though most are in the dictionary) in this realm,no comma (not an independent clause] and spends almost all of his time traveling throughout his properties or scouting new ones to acquire. I see him quite rarely. He is a solemn man, paying me scant attention when home,no comma but always seeing that I have new books and things with which to amuse myself,no comma and fine, newly made clothes to wear. The various women who raised me were neither kind nor unkind to me, but rather indifferent. I've learned academics well enough from them but next to nothing about the grace and sexuality of womanhood. I kept all my questions and silent yearnings locked secretly inside my heart...these aren't proper publish ellipses--should be spaces around the periods (but not a big issue)until recently.

Thanks. I indeed do need to work on sharpening my eyes