Weak vs Strong

[SweetGigi]

The other day while talking to Jim, we hit on a topic that has left me wondering and curious to pick the brains of others.

As some of you know, I have started up with a cuck in exploration of my DOMME side and things are going very well it seems. I am throughly enjoying this new aspect/situation and learning more about myself as well as him.

At one point while talking to Jim about all this, he made the comment that I had to 'remain strong' in the eyes of my cuck and not to 'show him any of my weaknesses'. He went on to explain that to show him my faults and to allow him to see that 'softer side' of me would be detrimental to my command and control of him. He continued by saying that if I am to stay in control, it is best to never let him see the submissive side of me.

The thought of these comments struck me oddly. Part of me feels that one of the reasons Jim and I have had so much trouble is because of his inability to show me is compassion and his 'softer' side. I have always felt that if he had just showed his feelings more, we would have had a better dynamic. Seeing his insight as to how to handle my own bottom has shown me part of why he is who he is. That it isn't so much that he 'can't' show his feelings, (because he most certainly is doing that now-a-days) but that he feels by doing so, it creates a weakness in him that I can't/won't respect.

So I pose it to you, fine litsters. What are your thoughts of weakness versus strength in the PYL position? Do you feel that by showing your 'softer' side you are creating a fault line in the relationship? Or do you feel that part of being a good PYL is allowing your pyl to see all the facets of your personality?

 

[Lalah]

I say do what is best for you. There isn't just one way of doing thing, and if you showing your softer side despite your dominating role isn't ok for him, then maybe you're just not compatible. Neither of you should have to be forced into an attitute that isn't really you. That's just building a relationship on quicksand.

 

[_kiana_]

I think it depends on the relationship itself.

As a full time relationship, being primary partners, not sharing those feelings would be detrimental to the relationship. Very likely to be fatally detrimental imo. Keeping a part of one's self completely away from your partner is not being completely honest with them. Screw the macho "showing my feelings shows weakness" crap in that case. Total honesty is needed, even if it isn't communicated verbally. In a full time relationship you have to be people first, and fulfilling the dynamic second. Life throws too much at you too quickly at times to try to keep a "show" going.

A lot of men, vanilla or kinked, still feel like they have to hide their emotions. It usually does not go over well in any circumstances for personal relationships. So why would changing the reason for hiding them change the outcome?

If it's a casual relationship, or the whole purpose of the relationship is purely for the dynamic, then keeping that part hidden might not harm the relationship at all.

But then, the whole 'individuals' thing comes into it. One way may work for some, not others. We're all different and have to figure out how it works for us best. (Yadda, yadda, yadda...)



PS - Did you mean to put this in the Talk forum, not the Cafe?

 

[SweetGigi]

....PS - Did you mean to put this in the Talk forum, not the Cafe?

yes, since my convos generally turn into free for alls, it is best to always keep them here.

 

[ecstaticsub]

I don't know how it would be for others, but I know in my relationship getting to know his vulnerabilities has just made me respect, love and want to submit to him more. It took a while --maybe a yr--for him to allow me to see that side of him though. The fact that he allows me to see that he is not always the strong, in control person that I usualy see means a great deal to me. It shows that he trusts me and our relationship.

 

[SubKekiLee]

The other day while talking to Jim, we hit on a topic that has left me wondering and curious to pick the brains of others.

As some of you know, I have started up with a cuck in exploration of my DOMME side and things are going very well it seems. I am throughly enjoying this new aspect/situation and learning more about myself as well as him.

At one point while talking to Jim about all this, he made the comment that I had to 'remain strong' in the eyes of my cuck and not to 'show him any of my weaknesses'. He went on to explain that to show him my faults and to allow him to see that 'softer side' of me would be detrimental to my command and control of him. He continued by saying that if I am to stay in control, it is best to never let him see the submissive side of me.

The thought of these comments struck me oddly. Part of me feels that one of the reasons Jim and I have had so much trouble is because of his inability to show me is compassion and his 'softer' side. I have always felt that if he had just showed his feelings more, we would have had a better dynamic. Seeing his insight as to how to handle my own bottom has shown me part of why he is who he is. That it isn't so much that he 'can't' show his feelings, (because he most certainly is doing that now-a-days) but that he feels by doing so, it creates a weakness in him that I can't/won't respect.

So I pose it to you, fine litsters. What are your thoughts of weakness versus strength in the PYL position? Do you feel that by showing your 'softer' side you are creating a fault line in the relationship? Or do you feel that part of being a good PYL is allowing your pyl to see all the facets of your personality?

Gigi
IMO- My Dom showed me a very vulnerable part of him last December when we got together and saw one another and in my eyes it took our relationship deeper and stronger for me to see his vulnerable side, again when I saw him in February he was very soft and very emotional with me I enjoy that side of him. I know who is in control I know he is my Dom but it make me know he is human and that it makes me love him all the more to see all sides of him. Do what you feel is best if you want to show your sensual soft side to cuck then go for it.. . thats just my opinion....

 

[TeachMeSir]

A word form the newbie.

So, I am maybe not the best person to comment on this. Personally I find it very hard to show weakness. This is not because I feel that people will have a negative judgement towards me if they see this side of me, but I do know taht if I ignore the emotional component to a situation I am better able to handle & resolve any problem. Of course this isn't healthy if I flat out refuse to acknowledge my feelings, and quite often after a highly charged situation or event that I mave somehow managed to kep my cool throghout I tend to become a mess with that emotional release of having held it in.

As for signs of weakness in others, it is the same for me whether it be a friend, a work colleague, or a Dom. Let me say this first, and I realize that it may just be semantics so don't chew my head off. I am sure that many of you will have a similar view as me, but I want to be sure I am saying it the right way.

I see a difference between weakness & sensitivity. I love it when someone trust me enough to open up their feelings to me, it can be through words, non-verbals like an extra need for hugs or as SK mentioned just that look into their eyes when you can see stright though them. Men especially seem to try & hide their sensitivities. I won't go into why I think this, I'm not intuitive or intelligent enough to feel that I have an real grasp on this, it is just something I have noticed.

Weakness is something different. It is when things get so crappy that you just don't know how to cope. I'm not saying this is a bad thing. It's almost like your brain / body shuts down for a while and you subconsciously process what is going on around you, so you can come at it with a new sense of energy or understanding .... I know I'm not being bery clear, perhaps this topic hits a bit to cloe to home for my comforts (and my stubborn "super woman" streak).

So, perhaps I should just take a deep breath & say what I think without the worry that I may offend somebody..... I just know I don't always say thing the right way....

If someone shows me their sensitivities or weaknesses then I love it. The fact that in their lives situation A, B & C all happened at the same time & they are coping with it just boost my opion of them because they are strong enough to deal with it. If someone hides these feelings, I do not think of them as "strong", but rather I wonder if they really trust me, or perhaps they just don't feel deeply, or maybe they have the perfect life & that I find incredulous (I should probbaly point out at this stage that thsi is the type of mask I try & put on with tose who i don't know very well, not healthy I admit, but I am a work in process).

Oh, you know, I'm not sure I know what I am trying to say ..... Sensitivities & emotions are good, as is strength, as long as it is a true strength in the face of avdersity, not denail of the situation... everyone has moments of weakness.... they can sometimes help you realize more about yourself and this is fine (Note to self- this is fine!). Prolonged weakness is somthing I have a harder time accepting, I almost feel that once I have had my litte pitty-party that I need to pick myself back up, dust myself off and get on with it. It's just a matter of getting back on the horse, not seeing myself as a victim and coping....

Man, I confuse even myself - back for an edit when the cogs of my brain stop spinning.

 

[Homburg]

I have no problem with it. I vehemently dislike the idea of emotional dishonesty and fronts between myself and someone I love. As a result, I will not try to hide that sort of thing. I am no more or less human than anyone else, and experience the same emotions as other. I am simply dominant. It is, admittedly, fuck-all hard to do this, but ultimately worth it.

It has also been my experience that such a thing produces greater closeness. That said, closeness may well not be a good idea with a cuck.*shrug* Depends on the sort of dynamic you have.

BDSM aside, it takes great strength of character for a normally strong person to be willing to show weakness. Those that do not frequently lack the courage of their convictions, or are simply too insecure to show their feelings. Yes, I'm being pretty harsh here, and I'm sure someone will jump on this, but it is simply my experience. The "strong, silent type" is generally that way because he or she is afraid. I would rather own my weakness than try to hide from it.

 

[TeachMeSir]

BDSM aside, it takes great strength of character for a normally strong person to be willing to show weakness. Those that do not frequently lack the courage of their convictions, or are simply too insecure to show their feelings. Yes, I'm being pretty harsh here, and I'm sure someone will jump on this, but it is simply my experience. The "strong, silent type" is generally that way because he or she is afraid. I would rather own my weakness than try to hide from it.

I do this at times, like I said I am a work in progress. If I have difficulty trusting somebody then I am less likely to. Some ofthe time it is that we are not at that stage, but i have to admit that a lot of the time it is an insecurity in myself, a lack of faith that I am worthy oftheir freindship & that if they were to see me weak then they may not like me anymore.... I can't believe I am admitting this, even to myself, but there you have it.

 

[Homburg]

I do this at times, like I said I am a work in progress. If I have difficulty trusting somebody then I am less likely to. Some ofthe time it is that we are not at that stage, but i have to admit that a lot of the time it is an insecurity in myself, a lack of faith that I am worthy oftheir freindship & that if they were to see me weak then they may not like me anymore.... I can't believe I am admitting this, even to myself, but there you have it.

It's situational. I'm not going to cry in front of my boss, but I will admit to my anxieties to my gals. The bottom line for me is that I am safe in showing occassional weakness. I'm goddamned strong, and everybody knows it that associates with me. The thing with that sort of personality is that people will flat assume that it is a farce if you do not occassionally show weakness. Paradoxical and certainly contraintuitive, but it is the truth insofar as my experience goes.

There is a lot going on in this topic. A whole lot. Strength with no shown weakness is a farce. Strength that admits to weakness is stronger. That sort of thing. Doesn't necessarily make immediate sense, and is bloody difficult to express.

 

[TeachMeSir]

It's situational. I'm not going to cry in front of my boss, but I will admit to my anxieties to my gals. The bottom line for me is that I am safe in showing occassional weakness. I'm goddamned strong, and everybody knows it that associates with me. The thing with that sort of personality is that people will flat assume that it is a farce if you do not occassionally show weakness. Paradoxical and certainly contraintuitive, but it is the truth insofar as my experience goes.

There is a lot going on in this topic. A whole lot. Strength with no shown weakness is a farce. Strength that admits to weakness is stronger. That sort of thing. Doesn't necessarily make immediate sense, and is bloody difficult to express.

I think perhaps part of my characted flaw is that I feel that I always need to be the hero. If I show weakness, even to those I love, will they have faith in my abilty to count on me when they need me .... this is off topic a bit though so end hijack/

 

[A Desert Rose]

... do you feel that part of being a good PYL is allowing your pyl to see all the facets of your personality?

I think that knowing, learning and sharing the many facets of his or my personality is part of an intimate and long term relationship.

If you're talking about a play or fuckbuddy/occassional date thing, I guess that would be different and not something I can really speak to.

All that being said, I'm not really sure anyone knows ALL the facets of themselves, let alone anyone else.

This could get really existential...

LOL

 

[SweetGigi]

I think perhaps part of my characted flaw is that I feel that I always need to be the hero. If I show weakness, even to those I love, will they have faith in my abilty to count on me when they need me .... this is off topic a bit though so end hijack/

No, no, this is right on topic. I am the hero in most all my relationships. I am always the hard rock of strength and refuge. Everyone comes to me for comfort and stability. Even my parents have started doing this. But when times (like I am currently in) come about, I am scared to death of showing my needs, fears and weakness. I feel that if I do show this side of me that they will lose respect for me or that they will feel they can't depend on me to be strong when they need me. I tend to just go off alone and lick my wounds- relying on only a select few for support.

 

[Homburg]

I think perhaps part of my characted flaw is that I feel that I always need to be the hero. If I show weakness, even to those I love, will they have faith in my abilty to count on me when they need me .... this is off topic a bit though so end hijack/

I don't think it is off-topic at all. Gigi asked about showing a softer side to her cuck, and the potential downside of this is exactly what you are worried about - being seen as weak/non-capable. It is the same emotion, same concern, just applied in a different relationship structure.

Personally, I have no issues with it. Being the hero is just something you do, not who you are. And being seen as being the hero as an identity is a matter of being the hero in past situations. Do it often enough, and people will see you that way. what matters is how the perceptive people in your life view you. Some people play the hero out of insecurity, because they feel the need to make up for some perceived deficiency by virtue of always being the person that goes the extra mile and saves the day. In most cases, who cares? You saved the day. But sometimes it is worth recognising why you did it.

This becomes germane simply because many pyl's are very sensitive to the moods and motivations of their PYL. When a given person is as incredibly important to you as a PYL in a power exchange relationship, you tend to pay attention. Some pyl's want that super hard unyielding unrelaistic fantasy top. Others want something more immediate and real. *shrug*

 

[TeachMeSir]

No, no, this is right on topic. I am the hero in most all my relationships. I am always the hard rock of strength and refuge. Everyone comes to me for comfort and stability. Even my parents have started doing this. But when times (like I am currently in) come about, I am scared to death of showing my needs, fears and weakness. I feel that if I do show this side of me that they will lose respect for me or that they will feel they can't depend on me to be strong when they need me. I tend to just go off alone and lick my wounds- relying on only a select few for support.

Ah, but when you find somebody that not only listens to you, but hears you, and keeps their faith in you, you can be strong.... And that strength is either shown by no longer "needing them to listen", but knowing that they happily would and so you are better able to pick yourself up with them as your support, or being strong enough, and have enough faith in their love for you that you can show your weaknesses, sensitivites & fears with complete faith that they will love you no matter what and they are your source of strength when you feel you don't have any of your own.

 

[intothewoods]

Just my opinion but - Real people in a real, honest loving and trust-based relationship are both weak and strong. Or vulnerable. Flawed. Not perfect. Whatever word fits best. The point is that a D who consciously hides part of him or herself is playing a role of some sort. That may be just fine for a casual or limited relationship, but it's not fine for me.

As a separate matter, what the heck is a cuck?

 

[SweetGigi]

.....As a separate matter, what the heck is a cuck?

A man who enjoys being humiliated by a DOMME in a variety of manners. It includes but is not limited to, chastity, verbal assault, physical torture, financial devotion, restraint, orgasm control/denial, etc etc etc etc.



ETA: For clarity, Jim is not my cuck. He is my former Dom who is trying to win me back.

 

[FurryFury]

I think that knowing, learning and sharing the many facets of his or my personality is part of an intimate and long term relationship.

If you're talking about a play or fuckbuddy/occassional date thing, I guess that would be different and not something I can really speak to.

All that being said, I'm not really sure anyone knows ALL the facets of themselves, let alone anyone else.

This could get really existential...

LOL

Great post!



I agree with what you said that what Jim said to you was very telling of the way he treated you. This will hopefully lead to more discussion and help him (if you both want to get back together) to grow as a person and a PYL.

 

[SubKekiLee]

I absolutely DO not think that if a PYL shows a softer side of them it ruins things I think it deepens the connection, cause as a sub/pyl you are very vulnerable and it is very hard to not show your softer vulnerable side... I appreciate when a PYL/Dom can show me he is human and that he has emotions as I do and that he is effected with life, and such....

 

[YourCaptor]

The other day while talking to Jim, we hit on a topic that has left me wondering and curious to pick the brains of others.

As some of you know, I have started up with a cuck in exploration of my DOMME side and things are going very well it seems. I am throughly enjoying this new aspect/situation and learning more about myself as well as him.

At one point while talking to Jim about all this, he made the comment that I had to 'remain strong' in the eyes of my cuck and not to 'show him any of my weaknesses'. He went on to explain that to show him my faults and to allow him to see that 'softer side' of me would be detrimental to my command and control of him. He continued by saying that if I am to stay in control, it is best to never let him see the submissive side of me.

The thought of these comments struck me oddly. Part of me feels that one of the reasons Jim and I have had so much trouble is because of his inability to show me is compassion and his 'softer' side. I have always felt that if he had just showed his feelings more, we would have had a better dynamic. Seeing his insight as to how to handle my own bottom has shown me part of why he is who he is. That it isn't so much that he 'can't' show his feelings, (because he most certainly is doing that now-a-days) but that he feels by doing so, it creates a weakness in him that I can't/won't respect.

So I pose it to you, fine litsters. What are your thoughts of weakness versus strength in the PYL position? Do you feel that by showing your 'softer' side you are creating a fault line in the relationship? Or do you feel that part of being a good PYL is allowing your pyl to see all the facets of your personality?

Their is a big difference between showing your softer and compassionate side, and showing your submissive side.

For his mind set, don't show submissivenesses. Once the idea that he has more power then you is planted in his head, well then I think its are basically over.

Compassion and softness are not inherently submissive. For example, a mother figure.

 

[intothewoods]

A man who enjoys being humiliated by a DOMME in a variety of manners. It includes but is not limited to, chastity, verbal assault, physical torture, financial devotion, restraint, orgasm control/denial, etc etc etc etc.



ETA: For clarity, Jim is not my cuck. He is my former Dom who is trying to win me back.

I remember Jim, and I'm not surprised he's trying to win you back. You're a catch!

Thanks for the explanation. I've heard of that type of thing, but I thought of it as another variety of msub, not it's own thing. Interesting!

 

[Lalah]

Their is a big difference between showing your softer and compassionate side, and showing your submissive side.

For his mind set, don't show submissivenesses. Once the idea that he has more power then you is planted in his head, well then I think its are basically over.

Compassion and softness are not inherently submissive. For example, a mother figure.

It shouldn't be a problem if you're really the dom. He think he has more power than you? Just channel "the bitch" and put him back in his place. You'd have to go pretty astray to completely lose all authority. Heck, I make my lover dominate and humiliate me sexually, sometimes in public, and he still knows I'm the dominant in the relationship.

 

[madetotakeit]

What it comes down to is finding out what side of you he needs to see. Every situation is different. You know what works for you and what you need from the things that were lacking with Jim. He may not be the same way. Find out if he needs the complete person or just the dominant part of you. I agree with kiana in that the nature of the relationship has a lot to do with it. If it's just play then it may not be an issue for you in the long run. If it's more then you definitely need to find out how he feels about the other side.

 

[SweetGigi]

I remember Jim, and I'm not surprised he's trying to win you back. You're a catch!

Thanks for the explanation. I've heard of that type of thing, but I thought of it as another variety of msub, not it's own thing. Interesting!

Yeah the ETA wasn't for you. I got word that how I posed the OP was a bit confusing. My reply to you was just where I happened to put the clarification. Thanks, toots, you're quite the catch too.

It shouldn't be a problem if you're really the dom. He think he has more power than you? Just channel "the bitch" and put him back in his place. You'd have to go pretty astray to completely lose all authority. Heck, I make my lover dominate and humiliate me sexually, sometimes in public, and he still knows I'm the dominant in the relationship.

I have absolutely no problem showing and keeping my Dominance over the cuck. He craves such humiliation, but in the same breath he craves a compassion too. He loves knowing that I am submissive to others but control him completely. He feels it 'sets him in his place'. It is all very new to me, but I am finding my footing and comfortability fast. I agree that it would take going off the map entirely in order to lose all control. cuck and I are able to have introspective and engaging conversations and have a 'normal' dialog, then in an instant I can turn it around and have him at my knees begging to lick my feet.

I just still have a hard time understanding where Jim is coming from, though. Esp since he is trying so hard to win me back (with proposals and all) by showing that softer side he suggested I not show.

 

[YourCaptor]

I just still have a hard time understanding where Jim is coming from, though. Esp since he is trying so hard to win me back (with proposals and all) by showing that softer side he suggested I not show.

He wants you back so hes gonna do every little thing he thinks will impress you.

In about 95% of such cases my advice ends up being that he should be ignored.

I think you should judge him not by how you feel now, but how you felt when you where together.

Good luck