kids and politics

[DesertPirate]

I know that for some people, the fear is that your children will just mimic you. And so, you're not really raising free thinkers, but small clones who repeat you but don't understand why. It's a valid fear, in some cases. Certainly, there are children (and adults) who say, "I'm support XYZ because we have always done that in my family."

At our house, it doesn't roll that way. My oldest daughter is almost 13. As I mentioned in Selena's thread, it took me a while to pick a candidate to support this time around. I looked at all three of the major contenders with the same level of study. I read their websites, read/watched their speeches, looked at media reports, etc. In the process, my oldest sat just behind me and to my left and read over my shoulder. We talked about the candidates extensively. In the end, I picked Obama. She picked Edwards. She was quite sad when he ended his candidacy, in fact. When I asked her why she was supporting him, she told me "I liked what he said about education. It made the most sense."

Education isn't on my top three issues in a candidate (maybe it should be after this whole "No child left behind" fiasco). She had an issue that was important to her and found a candidate she liked.

*so proud mama*

When I was a kid my Dad wanted to know if I was paying attention, he would take the opposite of me in any political discussion just to test my thinking
Really taught me how to think on the fly accurately
He was a college professor

 

[DeeZire]

I guess I mean to say, I can't really get behind blanket platitudes of "go right ahead and expose them to politics"... but only because there's a whole lot to that, and I wouldn't agree with some of it. Sort of a qualified "it depends on the politics at play".

Does that makes sense?

It makes perfect sense to me. Conservatives embrace censorship, liberals detest it.

My litmus test would be hate speech. I wouldn't want to expose children to Rev Wright, or Rush Limbaugh. However, if either of them presented a reasoned opinion on a subject, I wouldn't want to deprive children of the opportunity to see both sides of an argument. That's the beauty of politics - the concept that there are two sides to every story. This is one of the most important lessons a child can learn. Too bad many of them will never have the opportunity, thanks to guys like the ex husband.

 

[starrkers]

Warning: opinionated post follows.
My 15 year old is the most politically savvy in her year group at school, and occasionally pulls up her teachers on points of political accuracy. Politics are a part of life. Children should know about political things as much as about legal things if they are to have a full understanding of our society and their place in it.
My husband and I disagree on political viewpoint often. He is far more conservative in his politics than I. Sometimes I am forced to concede, sometimes he is, other times we just agree to differ.
The kids see that and offer their views. Sometimes they are right on the money, sometimes they suffer from a lack of background information. Depending on the topic as to whether we give them the information or tell them it's a bit much for them to swallow yet (the second option is hardly ever used with Miss 15 anymore, rarely with Mr 10, although he's often told he's getting a simplified version of a much tougher issue, and he's happy with that so far. Mr 8 usually goes and plays on the Playstation when we're being boring
I don't think children should be shielded from life at all. That is a disservice to them as adults and, I believe, one of the main problems with society now - we shield children from the life's bitter edges but expect them to magically understand and embrace the whole deal as soon as they have an arbitrarily chosen birthday.

Long post short: You're doing right SJ, your husband's a blinkered ass.

 

[DesertPirate]

I don't think children should be shielded from life at all. That is a disservice to them as adults and, I believe, one of the main problems with society now - we shield children from the life's bitter edges but expect them to magically understand and embrace the whole deal as soon as they have an arbitrarily chosen birthday.

Long post short: You're doing right SJ, your husband's a blinkered ass.

Well said Starr

 

[Darkniciad]

It makes perfect sense to me. Conservatives embrace censorship, liberals detest it.

Going to have to disagree with you there. Using the same two mass groupings, those on the liberal side are quick with their own calls for censorship, just not for the same things.

A rash of stories recently about trying to force out military recruiters and recruiting stations is just one example. It's "bad" so it must go away.

 

[DeeZire]

Going to have to disagree with you there. Using the same two mass groupings, those on the liberal side are quick with their own calls for censorship, just not for the same things.

A rash of stories recently about trying to force out military recruiters and recruiting stations is just one example. It's "bad" so it must go away.

That's the simplified version. Here's a quote from Columbia Law School, explaining the reasoning behind their decision to discourage military recruitment on campus.

(quote) This recruitment directly violates the Law School’s longstanding non-discrimination policy, which forbids employers from recruiting on our campus if they discriminate based on, inter alia, sexual orientation. Under the “don’t ask, don’t tell” law, which bars openly lesbian, gay and bisexual individuals from military service, military employers discriminate explicitly based on sexual orientation.(quote)

This looks more like an issue of integrity rather than an issue of censorship.

My point was that censorship is a cornerstone of conservative ideology, which would explain why a conservative would want to shield a child from information, and a liberal would want to encourage that child to seek out information.

Please understand, I'm not trying to label everyone as either a liberal or a conservative, claiming that one side is virtuous and the other is nefarious, I'm just trying to point out the obvious - conservatives are basically fearful, (fearful of government, foreign countries, sex, drugs, gays, you-name-it) liberals are basically accepting and open (open to government, foreign countries, sex, drugs, gays, you-name-it.) At least, according to me, they are. But these are just discussion points, not a challenge or a put-down. The more we can talk to each other, discover how we view things differently, the more of a chance for us to find common ground.

 

[Boxlicker101]

I think I was in the first grade when we voted in class. Humphrey, Wallace, Nixon. Fuck am I old.

No, you're not. I voted for real in 1968 I was in fourth grade when we voted for Dewey or Truman or the Dixiecrat candidate, whose name escapes me. Maybe it was Strom Thurmond. Maybe it was Nate Thurmond. Maybe it was Strom Boli.

 

[Caitano]

Uh... What? *laugh*

I suppose there are an abundance of bad examples to learn what you shouldn't do, so I guess it does sort of work.

You have opted out of citizenship, then? I have to think you shun politics, you know so little of it.

 

[cantdog]

Your ex's child-rearing theory is a huge part of why the 18-29 demographic has such lackluster voter turnout. If you want young people to participate in the governing of *their* country and the making of *their* laws, you have to show them that the political process is an important part of *your* life.

It's quite simple: one of the loudest ways we parent is by modeling. If we want our kids to learn healthy eating habits, we engage in healthy eating habits ourselves. If we want our kids to learn non-violent conflict resolution, we demonstrate said behavior in our own lives. And if we want our kids to be engaged in the world around them, we engage in our own world in front of them.

I can't help but wonder if the ex is one of those parents that thinks you should have "the talk" with a kid when they're sixteen or seventeen, well past the age that they learned very confusing facts of life in the locker room. It's the same kind of logic to me: "Protect them until it's too late to educate them."

It's not just politics.

People have a tendency to bury their children away from the world, on the theory that they are too young for it. Begin tedious old-man anecdote:

An extremely competent woodsman I know didn't take his eldest boy along for many years, thinking as Joe W and the ex do. When he finally decided the boy was old enough, the boy (we'll call him "Mark") was twelve. The woods were alien territory to Mark, there were too many rules to take in all at once, and he was entering into the social scene at his middle school. He just wasn't interested.

Chiefly, though, he attached no value to the wild as such. My own child went with us as a toddler-- hell, as a babe in arms, really. She got to see the ducks on the water when she was three, and coo over the water lotuses, hear the loons, watch the nuptial flight of eagle pairs, hear owls at night, chew wintergreen right off the forest floor. The place was, consequently, interesting. All the rules came along one or two at a time, and she picked them up en passant, natural as breathing.​

End tedious anecdote. Now you're supposed to draw the moral yourself. See how it works? --Old Man

 

[cantdog]

You're a resource for us all, Starrkers

Warning: opinionated post follows.
My 15 year old is the most politically savvy in her year group at school, and occasionally pulls up her teachers on points of political accuracy. Politics are a part of life. Children should know about political things as much as about legal things if they are to have a full understanding of our society and their place in it.
My husband and I disagree on political viewpoint often. He is far more conservative in his politics than I. Sometimes I am forced to concede, sometimes he is, other times we just agree to differ.
The kids see that and offer their views. Sometimes they are right on the money, sometimes they suffer from a lack of background information. Depending on the topic as to whether we give them the information or tell them it's a bit much for them to swallow yet (the second option is hardly ever used with Miss 15 anymore, rarely with Mr 10, although he's often told he's getting a simplified version of a much tougher issue, and he's happy with that so far. Mr 8 usually goes and plays on the Playstation when we're being boring
I don't think children should be shielded from life at all. That is a disservice to them as adults and, I believe, one of the main problems with society now - we shield children from the life's bitter edges but expect them to magically understand and embrace the whole deal as soon as they have an arbitrarily chosen birthday.

Long post short: You're doing right SJ, your husband's a blinkered ass.

Dead on. As usual.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

...thinking as Joe W and the ex do.

I think we're misrepresenting, here, what Joe thinks--certainly if we're lumping Joe in with the ex.

 

[LoquaciousLady]

I think we're misrepresenting, here, what Joe thinks--certainly if we're lumping Joe in with the ex.

Isn't that a standard Lit pastime? I had gotten that impression anyway...

 

[keeblercrumb]

No, you're not. I voted for real in 1968 I was in fourth grade when we voted for Dewey or Truman or the Dixiecrat candidate, whose name escapes me. Maybe it was Strom Thurmond. Maybe it was Nate Thurmond. Maybe it was Strom Boli.

Well.... I remember distinctly Richard Nixon and Ike coming through my small upstate NY town on the back of train.... I really liked the Elephant they had waiting at the station..............

Some 55 years later I am still in recovery... so maybe there is something to this whole issue.... I never knew where the elephant came from, now that I think about it...

On the other hand... I don't remember much about 1968... It was not my favorite year.... a lot of negative shit fortunately medicated by a lot of good shit.... but what little I remember seemed to be about Nixon, Humphrey, McCarthy (uhhh Gene)...and jungle rot. I personally wrote in a vote for Eldrige Cleaver (no relation to the Beaver) because he wanted to re-name the Prez house "The Black House".... This was deep in my period of recovery.

Having said that I think you may have been thinking about 1948 not 1968... with Dewey, Truman and what's his Strom –Boli racist name.... But that's okay... as they say... if you can remember the 60's... you weren't there.

Back on thread… tell the little buggers all you want about anything... By the time they are 14, they generally believe their parents are total idiots anyway... and will have forgotten it all. Except that Elephant....

But you want to be careful about telling them their father (the "ex) is a dickhead.. which he obviously is. That stuff scars them.... they just have to learn that by themselves...



-KC

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Isn't that a standard Lit pastime? I had gotten that impression anyway...

Well... I want to disagree... but...

 

[English Lady]

Well... I want to disagree... but...

well yes, that's only natural

 

[sophia jane]

I took my kids with me to vote today. There were lots of other kids there and all the election volunteers were thrilled to see the kid turnout. "It's never too early" one woman said to me.
And obviously, I agree. My three kids are wearing their "I voted" stickers. They don't know who the candidates are in this particular election, but what they do know is that I participated in the process, and when the votes roll in tonight, they will know they were part of that.

 

[fifty5]

Bumping an old thread...

I re-read this thread for personal reasons.

Now Obama's in the White House - and saying and doing what he is - does anyone want to rehash what was said back then?

 

[Boxlicker101]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxlicker101
No, you're not. I voted for real in 1968 I was in fourth grade when we voted for Dewey or Truman or the Dixiecrat candidate, whose name escapes me. Maybe it was Strom Thurmond. Maybe it was Nate Thurmond. Maybe it was Strom Boli.

Well.... I remember distinctly Richard Nixon and Ike coming through my small upstate NY town on the back of train.... I really liked the Elephant they had waiting at the station..............

Some 55 years later I am still in recovery... so maybe there is something to this whole issue.... I never knew where the elephant came from, now that I think about it...

On the other hand... I don't remember much about 1968... It was not my favorite year.... a lot of negative shit fortunately medicated by a lot of good shit.... but what little I remember seemed to be about Nixon, Humphrey, McCarthy (uhhh Gene)...and jungle rot. I personally wrote in a vote for Eldrige Cleaver (no relation to the Beaver) because he wanted to re-name the Prez house "The Black House".... This was deep in my period of recovery.

Having said that I think you may have been thinking about 1948 not 1968... with Dewey, Truman and what's his Strom –Boli racist name.... But that's okay... as they say... if you can remember the 60's... you weren't there.

Back on thread… tell the little buggers all you want about anything... By the time they are 14, they generally believe their parents are total idiots anyway... and will have forgotten it all. Except that Elephant....

But you want to be careful about telling them their father (the "ex) is a dickhead.. which he obviously is. That stuff scars them.... they just have to learn that by themselves...



-KC

I remember 1968 quite well, although I was frequently drunk. George Wallace was the last third party candidate to actually carry some states. Cleaver, the notorious serial rapist was a candidate also, for the Peace and Freedom Party, even though he was under 35 years old. I voted for HHH that year.

Ike and Nixon would have been in 1952 and 1956.

In 1948, when I was in the Fourth Grade, we voted for Dewey or Truman or the Dixiecrat who was Strom Thurmond. There was a Wallace around then too, but I think he was a Socialist, and had little support.

 

[john-the-author]

I think I was in the first grade when we voted in class. Humphrey, Wallace, Nixon. Fuck am I old.

The fuckin' violins are out, dude. I remember seeing JFK riding by in a motorcade in San Francisco when I was in 1st grade.

 

[john-the-author]

I re-read this thread for personal reasons.

Now Obama's in the White House - and saying and doing what he is - does anyone want to rehash what was said back then?

I think not, 55. I'm very happy Obama's in, I'm sorry that he's inherited a bigger mess than I think this country may have ever been in, and I'm thinking that if anyone can pull it out, he's one of them. Now if someone will just club Rush Limbaugh repeatedly with a chair until he's lying in a puddle on the floor, my day may be complete.