Shelter for the homeless??

[The Heretic]

Last night I had a dream - that I was homeless. Never gonna happen - I can always find a place to stay with a family member (assuming I don't turn into a junkie or something like that, which is unlikely), and I have enough money to last for about ten years if I had to, then I could live on social security.

That said, I still dreamed of it (has to do with the stress of being unemployed I'm sure) but that is not really relevant to the purpose of this thread - to make a long story short, I dreamt that I was wearing my Ecotat outfit. I have one of these:

http://www.amazon.com/Multi-Purpose-Ecotat-Shelter-Tent/dp/B0007XY6LO

It is basically a bivy shelter that you can wear as a poncho. It keeps you warm and dry in inclement weather.

When I woke up it struck me that some inexpensive and simplified version of this would be good for homeless people. Not something with tent poles/etc., but something that would roll up and down to protect the whole body as necessary and serve as a bivy bag when sleeping. I have seen other proposals; foldable shelters that people wheel around to carry their gear, but most of the people I see that appear to be homeless aren't carrying around that much gear, and it seems to me that something they would wear would be better - less chance of it being stolen.

Feedback?

 

[Lavared]

A wool poncho with a rainproof outside and a hood, maybe? Or one of those long blanket things that the Scots wore (can't remember the specific name) around one shoulder that they could use to cover up with at night.

I think it's a neat concept to replace the grey blankets as they hand out in D.C. but don't know if homeless people would go for it. If they were wearing it during the day and sleeping under it at night it would get pretty rank.

 

[medjay]

Last night I had a dream - that I was homeless. Never gonna happen - I can always find a place to stay with a family member (assuming I don't turn into a junkie or something like that, which is unlikely), and I have enough money to last for about ten years if I had to, then I could live on social security.

I've been reading your posts off and on for a few years now and I seem to detect a certain pattern...

You appear to have a preoccupation with matters of money and security. No one else makes as many threads on this subject as you.

Not a complaint or anything, just an observation. I wonder if you're aware of this?

 

[Le Jacquelope]

I've been reading your posts off and on for a few years now and I seem to detect a certain pattern...

You appear to have a preoccupation with matters of money and security. No one else makes as many threads on this subject as you.

Not a complaint or anything, just an observation. I wonder if you're aware of this?

This is ironic considering that The Heretic once accused me of being obsessed with money and security, many years ago, when I first started trashing his Libertarian views.

This is a fitting end for him.

 

[The Heretic]

You appear to have a preoccupation with matters of money and security. No one else makes as many threads on this subject as you.

Not a complaint or anything, just an observation. I wonder if you're aware of this?

I am aware of it.

My first 7 or 8 years as an adult I was fairly poor and had trouble finding jobs. I have talked about the fact that I am at times insecure about my job situation, it seems with some justification because I take jobs with risky startups and in an industry where layoffs have become more common since the tech bubble burst. OTOH, I am better off than I used to be, and I can tell that I am less worried about than I used to be too - but it still gets to me, especially on the subconscious level.

That's life, everybody has their little hangups. *shrug*

 

[bluntforcemama]

If you are ever homeless, I offer you a place here if you need it. I promise.

 

[The Heretic]

A wool poncho with a rainproof outside and a hood, maybe? Or one of those long blanket things that the Scots wore (can't remember the specific name) around one shoulder that they could use to cover up with at night.

I think it's a neat concept to replace the grey blankets as they hand out in D.C. but don't know if homeless people would go for it. If they were wearing it during the day and sleeping under it at night it would get pretty rank.

Wool insulates even when wet, but it also gets very heavy. Layering is the key. In inclement weather, on the outside you want a wind/rain resistant layer. I have seen some homeless people in old GI ponchos, but the WWII ones don't breathe at all, soaking you in sweat, and the Vietnam era ones are not very protective either.

I was thinking a simplified and less expensive version of the Ecotat would keep someone who lived outside drier and more protected from the wind. If designed properly the garment could be made simply and inexpensively because it is basically flat with little tailoring/sewing.

 

[The Heretic]

If you are ever homeless, I offer you a place here if you need it. I promise.

Thanks, but like I said, I have family close enough to take me in.

Not everybody has family or friends that will give them a place to stay - some homeless can't stay with family/friends for various reasons, or just prefer to stay on the street. Whatever their reasons, I think something like what I propose might help them.

 

[bluntforcemama]

Thanks, but like I said, I have family close enough to take me in.

Not everybody has family or friends that will give them a place to stay - some homeless can't stay with family/friends for various reasons, or just prefer to stay on the street. Whatever their reasons, I think something like what I propose might help them.

I often think about that. I am thankful that family lives nearby, if not to help me, at least to help my son.

 

[medjay]

That's life, everybody has their little hangups. *shrug*

I understand. I have similar hangups being a freelancer myself.

 

[Lost Cause]

Water Food Shelter etc....

With your skills I 'd never worry about the dream, Heretic-

Just for discussion sake~ think "Ingenuity"

In the Army Cav Scouts (MOS 19D) we wore Ranger ponchos with the snap in liner that we used for a sleeping bag when we were out on 2 week LRRPs. They're great at 40 degrees and above.

As long as I have my motorcycle and light gear I can and did live on the fly.

I know I can shower/shave at the YMCA-work at a pay-by-day resource for gas money to head south to warmer climes.

I can do any job I so desire and work is there if you think outside the box.

There are amazing private resources for work and shelter if you look.
You can go to any Unemployment Center to find local work, and Libraries have PCs you can use.

There are places everywhere like KOA campgrounds- and you can even trade work for a spot to park and shower.

At the very worst scenario it would only last until you can find a strong employment area and about two paychecks to get back in the Rat Race.

http://www.craigslist.org/about/sites.html
http://www.smartcomputing.com/Editorial/article.asp?article=articles/archive/l0506/20j/20j.asp&guid=
http://offgrid.homestead.com/
http://www.easytech.nl/survival/english.html
US Army FM 21-76

http://youtube.com/watch?v=9ogQ0uge06o

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/newsletter/images2007/2007-03_Carlucci-camping.jpg

 

[The Heretic]

A pic of LT I found on the internet:

http://www.seomoz.org/images/upload/simpsons_nelson_haha2.jpg

 

[The Heretic]

With your skills I 'd never worry about the dream, Heretic-

I've been through worse many times before, a lot of us have - each time it gets a little easier because we know we will survive it and come back even stronger, but I do have these dreams. Usually about me being back in school, or the military, or whatever. In last night's dream I was working on the family farm, but for the people who own it now, not my family.

I just deal with it - that's life.

 

[SilvaTungDevil]

I spent years in the homeless camps (professionally). You'd be amazed at some of the rigs that these folks put together. Shacks with locking windows and doors, rainwater shower systems, one camp had even stolen electricity for a bit from a local tire dealership with an outdoor outlet.

I also have a friend who went over to Africa with a portable shelter that he had designed. They used them to build little homeless cities. They were basically big plastic igloos.

 

[The Heretic]

I spent years in the homeless camps (professionally). You'd be amazed at some of the rigs that these folks put together. Shacks with locking windows and doors, rainwater shower systems, one camp had even stolen electricity for a bit from a local tire dealership with an outdoor outlet.

I also have a friend who went over to Africa with a portable shelter that he had designed. They used them to build little homeless cities. They were basically big plastic igloos.

What do you think of something like the Ecotat?

 

[SilvaTungDevil]

It's pretty cool. Mostly though, the outside homeless have put something a little more elaborate together. Tents and awnings are usually available at most of the agencies that serve the truly homeless.

This seems like something a hunter, or college kid hitching across america might use.

 

[beachgurl3]

So, Heretic, why don't you do something with this inspiration?

As in, talk with some groups serving the homeless and see what they think. Maybe they have other better resources for the people they serve. Still, those with the ability to see the big picture outside the group they work with would be in a good position to tell you if this would be useful. Approach it as if you had a way to distribute them free. Would it be useful?

If so, what is stopping you from making that happen?

 

[The Heretic]

So, Heretic, why don't you do something with this inspiration?

As in, talk with some groups serving the homeless and see what they think. Maybe they have other better resources for the people they serve. Still, those with the ability to see the big picture outside the group they work with would be in a good position to tell you if this would be useful. Approach it as if you had a way to distribute them free. Would it be useful?

If so, what is stopping you from making that happen?

I am thinking about it - I am asking for feedback here from those who have more experience with the homeless and maybe with clothing design. I have an Ecotat myself and I may take it to someone who has more experience/knowledge about what the homeless need and/or whether it could be done inexpensively if I can find them (I don't think anybody is going to go for a design that costs $300 per person to manufacture and distribute).

 

[beachgurl3]

I am thinking about it - I am asking for feedback here from those who have more experience with the homeless and maybe with clothing design. I have an Ecotat myself and I may take it to someone who has more experience/knowledge about what the homeless need and/or whether it could be done inexpensively if I can find them (I don't think anybody is going to go for a design that costs $300 per person to manufacture and distribute).

Good for you then. Consider this to be encouragement.

There are so many reasons why people are homeless that different solutions seem to be appropriate for different segments. Every good action plan starts with one person thinking of an idea then refining it. I think plenty of people *think* of things, few are willing to give it a second thought, let alone work to refine it.

I have no idea about the segment this would fit. I think it may be out there, but I have only limited insight and that is limited even further to women and families. And then even further limited with people *wanting* to get back into mainstream society. Not the right fit in that case, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't fit another.

I'm not so convinced I would let cost limit you. That $3oo figure is inexpensive compared to even a month's housing, besides this wouldn't be an alternative to housing. It would be a fit for those who are not suited to other housing.

 

[Lost Cause]

I like this one- especially in the PNW~

http://www.actiongear.com/cgi-bin/t...BC4.ctx=Bivouac&backto=/agcatalog/level3c.tam

http://www.actiongear.com/agcatalog/picsxl/AG_CC8232_L_1.jpg

 

[The Heretic]

I like this one- especially in the PNW~

http://www.actiongear.com/cgi-bin/t...BC4.ctx=Bivouac&backto=/agcatalog/level3c.tam

http://www.actiongear.com/agcatalog/picsxl/AG_CC8232_L_1.jpg

I am thinking something a lot simpler, less expensive and less likely to be stolen or need complicated setup.

That is what I like about my Ecotat; I can wear it, and when I want to lay down and sleep I just layout a pad (to insulate from the cold ground), unfurl the sack and pull into it. It will keep me dry and break the wind. I have a tent but if I were homeless and had to carry everything I own on my back, I wouldn't want to carry around a $500 tent and have to find a place to set it up - I would want something that I could use anywhere.

 

[The Heretic]

I'm not so convinced I would let cost limit you. That $3oo figure is inexpensive compared to even a month's housing, besides this wouldn't be an alternative to housing. It would be a fit for those who are not suited to other housing.

The only way I could get it distributed would be to get a charity or charities to pay for the cost. Keeping cost to a minimum would help towards getting these to the people who need them.

Maybe I could get the original manufacturer to make a much simplified and inexpensive version of what they already make.

 

[Ishmael]

Last night I had a dream - that I was homeless. Never gonna happen - I can always find a place to stay with a family member (assuming I don't turn into a junkie or something like that, which is unlikely), and I have enough money to last for about ten years if I had to, then I could live on social security.

That said, I still dreamed of it (has to do with the stress of being unemployed I'm sure) but that is not really relevant to the purpose of this thread - to make a long story short, I dreamt that I was wearing my Ecotat outfit. I have one of these:

http://www.amazon.com/Multi-Purpose-Ecotat-Shelter-Tent/dp/B0007XY6LO

It is basically a bivy shelter that you can wear as a poncho. It keeps you warm and dry in inclement weather.

When I woke up it struck me that some inexpensive and simplified version of this would be good for homeless people. Not something with tent poles/etc., but something that would roll up and down to protect the whole body as necessary and serve as a bivy bag when sleeping. I have seen other proposals; foldable shelters that people wheel around to carry their gear, but most of the people I see that appear to be homeless aren't carrying around that much gear, and it seems to me that something they would wear would be better - less chance of it being stolen.

Feedback?

OK. Feedback.

Is homeless death from exposure a real problem up there in the NW? If not there, where is it a problem?

Ya know, I have no conflict with the sympathy of your thoughts. On the other hand, it seems to me you're addressing a non problem. As a matter of fact our 'homeless' population down here balloons in the winter months and disappears in the summer. They appear to have a great deal more mobility than you or I. It's as if they've choosen early retirement on a lower fixed income, and have learned to survive with it.

I suggest to you that if they weren't abole to cope they'd be dropping like flies. Either way it doesn't appear to me that there's a real homeless problem.

Tell you what TSG. Get dirty, real dirty. Go hang out with a sign "Will Work for Food" Try to stake out a corner, see what happens. And if you do manage to hold on to some territory, get back to us with your daily take.

You're unemployed and financially secure, seems to me you can invest a few months in this project. I trust you to report reality, unless LC indicates you've become some bleeding heart pansy.

Ishmael