Is Obama done?

[Boxlicker101]

Without a doubt, McCain is the best possible Republican nominee at this time, and he seems to be in a far stronger position than anyone could have believed (it was once taken as fact that the Dems would win, regardless of almost anything, and that McCain was once considered the weakest Republican candidate--it's quite uncanny how far things have come for him, but then again, that's a reminder of the power shifts in the political game). He is in a position to meet either Hillary or Obama in an issues-driven campaign and actually marginalize many of their standing points without alienating the conservatives completely. I wouldn't be surprised, if as you say, the race (after this Dem bloodbath gets completed) was quite genteel. We will probably all want a breather after the Conventions. We'll soon see.

The so called comeback of McCain, I think is due to the myopia of the prognisticators. They saw he didn't have much of a campaign going in August, and didn't have a lot of money in his war chest, so they wrote him off. What they didn't consider is that he had no need to promote name recognition, as did Romney and Huckleberry and Ron Paul, because he was already so well known from his run in 2000 and from all the free ink he was getting through 2007.

 

[Darkniciad]

The so called comeback of McCain, I think is due to the myopia of the prognisticators. They saw he didn't have much of a campaign going in August, and didn't have a lot of money in his war chest, so they wrote him off. What they didn't consider is that he had no need to promote name recognition, as did Romney and Huckleberry and Ron Paul, because he was already so well known from his run in 2000 and from all the free ink he was getting through 2007.

The were also operating under the illusion that the fringe elements were actually in control of the Republican base.

They've been listening to too much talk radio

There's a stronger right lean on the one side than the left lean to the other, but nothing like they were conjecturing.

 

[sr71plt]

That civility could very well translate into the winner having a better position to kick our do-nothing Congress in the ass and make the jackasses earn their frikkin' paychecks, too. The Congress feeds on that crap during the election cycle to stay fat on partisan bickering for the next four years and accomplish nothing.

I don't quite know how you reconcile the concept of a "do nothing" Congress with any choice of presidential candidates, when all three candidates still standing are members of that Congress. And I think calling the Congress that was in the "do as little as possible" administration's pocket for four years and still heavily influenced by the "do as little as possible" administration for the next four years can only result from a simplistic, naive, dogmatic, polarized view of how the government works (or doesn't).

Also, I'd like some of those "the government ain't doin' nothin" folks to see what it would be like if the government, in fact, "wasn't doin' nothin'."

 

[Darkniciad]

I don't quite know how you reconcile the concept of a "do nothing" Congress with any choice of presidential candidates, when all three candidates still standing are members of that Congress. And I think calling the Congress that was in the "do as little as possible" administration's pocket for four years and still heavily influenced by the "do as little as possible" administration for the next four years can only result from a simplistic, naive, dogmatic, polarized view of how the government works (or doesn't).

Also, I'd like some of those "the government ain't doin' nothin" folks to see what it would be like if the government, in fact, "wasn't doin' nothin'."

We were dealing with the same sort of stagnation during the end of the Clinton years as well. My recollection of the congress from Bush Sr. and Reagan are clouded in youthful indifference and alcohol. Get back to Carter, and you're delving into a point where my recollections of anything are sketchy at best.

The abundance of "Non-binding resolutions", flag burning amendments, marriage amendments, and other pointless crap is what has me wanting to smack the shit out of them.

I'm well aware that the quieter business of government goes on, but there are some issues that still need tackling that get tied up in the partisan weed-whacker. Anything with the potential to cut through some of that can't hurt.

 

[sr71plt]

We were dealing with the same sort of stagnation during the end of the Clinton years as well. My recollection of the congress from Bush Sr. and Reagan are clouded in youthful indifference and alcohol. Get back to Carter, and you're delving into a point where my recollections of anything are sketchy at best.

The abundance of "Non-binding resolutions", flag burning amendments, marriage amendments, and other pointless crap is what has me wanting to smack the shit out of them.

I'm well aware that the quieter business of government goes on, but there are some issues that still need tackling that get tied up in the partisan weed-whacker. Anything with the potential to cut through some of that can't hurt.

Well, I'm with Cindy Crawford on wanting to smack the congressional Dems around for not going ahead and filing papers of impeachment of Bush and Cheney on principle alone even if they couldn't muster the votes. They have tried several times to do some about Iraq, though--and some domestic issues as well.

 

[Belegon]

McCain isn't getting much heat because he has never done all that much to get heat about.

Uh, hello? The Keating Five?

Voting for the legalization of waterboarding barely weeks after ripping Mitt Romney a new hole over supporting it in a nationally televised republican debate?

Saying that Bush was right to go to war, a war that has not only been a foreign policy disaster but will cost us two trillion dollars in a time when we could dearly use it to stave off a growing recession?

Saying we'll stay in Iraq for a hundred years even though young men and women who have served and done their duty are being forcibly kept in the service and sent back into harms way?

I think I have to differ with that opinion... and I'm not even talking about the ridiculous and far more offensive comments of preacher John Hagee...

 

[cloudy]

Uh, hello? The Keating Five?

Voting for the legalization of waterboarding barely weeks after ripping Mitt Romney a new hole over supporting it in a nationally televised republican debate?

Saying that Bush was right to go to war, a war that has not only been a foreign policy disaster but will cost us two trillion dollars in a time when we could dearly use it to stave off a growing recession?

Saying we'll stay in Iraq for a hundred years even though young men and women who have served and done their duty are being forcibly kept in the service and sent back into harms way?

I think I have to differ with that opinion... and I'm not even talking about the ridiculous and far more offensive comments of preacher John Hagee...

THANK YOU!!!

Everybody's so quick to pile on Obama for his pastor's remarks, and McCain hasn't even tried to distance himself from Hagee. Instead, he said, "all I can tell you is that I am very proud to have Pastor John Hagee's support."

Among Hagee's very loudly pronounced beliefs:

"All Muslims are programmed to kill and we can thus never negotiate with any of them"

"God caused Hurricane Katrina to wipe out New Orleans because it had a gay pride parade the week before and was filled with sexual sin. I believe that New Orleans had a level of sin that was offensive to God, and they were recipients of the judgment of God for that. I believe that the Hurricane Katrina was, in fact, the judgment of God against the city of New Orleans"

"The End Times -- Rapture -- is imminent and the U.S. Government must do what it can to hasten it, which at minimum requires: a war with Iran and undying, absolute support for a unified Israel, including all Occupied Territories." um...hello? You won't find "the rapture" described in any bible. It's a made up concept.

About the Harry Potter series: "As millions of people anticipate the release of the latest Harry Potter book and film, we're reminded once again of Satan's ongoing attempt to deceive and destroy. The whole purpose of the Potter books is to desensitize readers and introduce them to the occult."

Hagee calls the Roman Catholic Church 'The Great Whore,' an 'apostate church,' the 'anti-Christ,' and a 'false cult system,' yet McCain defends him, saying that Hagee isn't a bigot or anit-Catholic.

But...I suppose that kind of hate is just fine with you, Box. After all, it's not a Black Preacher spewing it.

 

[Darkniciad]

Everybody's so quick to pile on Obama for his pastor's remarks, and McCain hasn't even tried to distance himself from Hagee. Instead, he said, "all I can tell you is that I am very proud to have Pastor John Hagee's support."

To be fair, Obama hasn't put any more distance between himself and Wright. He's denounced the specific statements, and Wright is off the campaign, but he certainly hasn't thrown the Reverend under the bus.

"in no way did I intend for his endorsement to suggest that I in turn agree with all of Pastor Hagee's views, which I obviously do not."

McCain's statement is pretty much the same as Obama's regarding Wright, and they both had a lag in issuing them after the shitfest erupted.

Six of one, half a dozen of another. Zero sum.

 

[cloudy]

To be fair, Obama hasn't put any more distance between himself and Wright. He's denounced the specific statements, and Wright is off the campaign, but he certainly hasn't thrown the Reverend under the bus.

"in no way did I intend for his endorsement to suggest that I in turn agree with all of Pastor Hagee's views, which I obviously do not."

McCain's statement is pretty much the same as Obama's regarding Wright, and they both had a lag in issuing them after the shitfest erupted.

Six of one, half a dozen of another. Zero sum.

There's quite a bit of difference between "I have already condemned, in unequivocal terms, the statements of Reverend Wright that have caused such controversy...Reverend Wright's comments were not only wrong but divisive, divisive at a time when we need unity; racially charged at a time when we need to come together to solve a set of monumental problems" (Obama) and "Pastor John Hagee, who has supported and endorsed my candidacy, supports what I stand for and believe in." (McCain)

But, I don't think it makes any difference to you (in general). You want a reason to dislike Obama, so you'll find it...somewhere.

Just like I said pages ago in this thread: people who don't want to support him will find and name any reason they can, besides the real one.

 

[Carnevil9]

......people who don't want to support him will find and name any reason they can, besides the real one.

Good point. The real one being, he is a SOCIALIST.

 

[Darkniciad]

Just like I said pages ago in this thread: people who don't want to support him will find and name any reason they can, besides the real one.

Ah, so anybody who doesn't support Obama is a racist. That explains why you've disregarded huge chunks of everything I've posted.

I lean right. Some of his vision for the future of the country make me twitch. His inexperience with the cutthroat world of Washington is a bit troubling. I don't dislike him at all.

I've always liked McCain, and I would have preferred that he was in the twilight of his second term right now instead of Dubya. I have disagreements with his vision in places as well, but total agreement with any candidate is pretty rare unless you're myopic or they're only presenting a generic bumper-sticker outline for the future.

In fact, I've said several times, in several threads ( including this one ), that I'm impressed with the way Obama's handled his campaign, which is a far cut above the dagger wielders of Hillary's camp. He's a fine speaker. He has that "statesman" air to him. Should he win in November, the historic event alone will force those in the world who choose to view the entire nation as a bunch of hillbilly evangelists to reconsider their opinion.

Of course, Hillary would have the same effect on the last point, but I do dislike her.

This shitstorm with Wright has demonstrated that he won't crack under the first sign of pressure. That actually alleviates a little of the concern about his inexperience. He's been put to the fire for really the first time, and he's coming through it pretty smoothly. I've already said that I really give little consideration to the association. For all we know, he's paying lip service to religion in the appropriate quantities and dozes through it for the sake of appearances. I honestly think Bush does that. Can't fault either of them for it, if such is true. I've got no use for organized religion at all. I regurgitated all of it that was rammed down my throat when I was a kid and gladly walked away from it when I reached the age of reason.

I've seen little from Obama that gives me any impression he harbors hidden agreement with any of Wright's more outrageous utterances, and I've had exposure to him prior to him breaking on the national scene.

I can't support him with McCain in the race. I feel McCain better represents my thoughts on the issues. If that makes me a closed-minded racist in your eyes, so be it.

 

[cloudy]

Ah, so anybody who doesn't support Obama is a racist. That explains why you've disregarded huge chunks of everything I've posted.

No, that's not what I said, but if it makes you feel better to think that, then...by all means, have at it.

(that's exactly why I said "you, in general," meaning that it wasn't directed specifically at you, because somehow, I figured that that was what you'd come back with)

 

[DeeZire]

Out here in Arizona, we get to see the softer side of McCain - like when he was asked what he would do if his fifteen year-old daughter came home pregnant. His non-answer: "That would be a family decision." Apparently, right-to-lifers are allowed to make exceptions for members of their own family, which makes one realize that McCain's so-called convictions are nothing more than PR statements.

It is, indeed, appalling that McCain can skate on his choice of radical pastor, but Obama can't. If this doesn't prove racism is still rampant in this country, we're dealing with a nationwide case of denial.

If I was Obama twenty years ago, I would also have been drawn to a pastor like Wright, if only because the man was not afraid to speak to the issues the other pastors were afraid to touch. You're not going to change the world by sitting on your hands. It takes action. If Wright went a little overboard in his fervor, that's not Obama's fault.

Obama has a stellar record of public service. He could have taken his law degree and written his own ticket to the top of corporate America, but instead he chose to work helping the unemployed in Chicago. His actions speak louder than Wright's words ever will.

 

[Darkniciad]

No, that's not what I said, but if it makes you feel better to think that, then...by all means, have at it.

When I look at what you said "pages ago in this thread" ( and in the other ):

They won't vote for Obama because he's black, but they'll find some other reason to justify it.

I would probably respect you a whole lot more if you just came out and said you didn't like him because he's Black, instead of finding minutiae that you can take issue with....

And then consider what you said to me:

Just like I said pages ago in this thread: people who don't want to support him will find and name any reason they can, besides the real one.

Well, you do the math.

But do feel free to elaborate on what my real reason is. I suppose I should really know why I don't support him, since I obviously have no clue.

From the Edit:

(that's exactly why I said "you, in general," meaning that it wasn't directed specifically at you, because somehow, I figured that that was what you'd come back with)

Ah, so now who is this "you" group I'm pigeon-holed into with, then? Whitey? Red Staters? Republicans? Hicks?

So you're not calling me, "you in specific", a close-minded racist, but you're lumping me in with some unknown group of "you in general" that is.

Guilt by association. How fitting. That's so much different, and I'm duely chastised for mistaking your intention

 

[rgraham666]

I don't think Obama is done.

After reading all these threads about him, I think the U.S. is, though.

A house divided against itself cannot stand.

Sad.

 

[cloudy]

When I look at what you said "pages ago in this thread" ( and in the other ):



And then consider what you said to me:



Well, you do the math.

But do feel free to elaborate on what my real reason is. I suppose I should really know why I don't support him, since I obviously have no clue.

From the Edit:



Ah, so now who is this "you" group I'm pigeon-holed into with, then? Whitey? Red Staters? Republicans? Hicks?

So you're not calling me, "you in specific", a close-minded racist, but you're lumping me in with some unknown group of "you in general" that is.

Guilt by association. How fitting. That's so much different, and I'm duely chastised for mistaking your intention

It's oh-so-obvious that no matter what I say, you've already got your mind made up as to what I meant, O great and wonderful mindreader.

No thanks....I'm just not up to another round of "As Dense As I Wanna Be" with y'all today. I have better things to do, like...oh, I dunno, watching paint dry.

 

[Moxon4]

Obama isn't done, he's still going to have the best argument for the superdelegates come Convention time. That being said, this race has been so divisive to the Party that they will have a really, really difficult time reconciling with two of their core groups: women, and african americans. The best female candidate ever getting beat by a black man who wants "Change" but offers little in how that will be accomplished is going to be a bitter pill (as was exemplified by the Ferraro comments, she was speaking for a lot more people than the Dems want to admit). If Hillary wins (who I think gives them a better chance of winning the general) then the younger generation that Obama would bring in would be disaffected by the process and not want to continue voting, and blacks would feel betrayed by the Party structure.

Either way, it's McCain/Whoever in 2008, and it's not going to end up being close.

 

[Darkniciad]

It's oh-so-obvious that no matter what I say, you've already got your mind made up as to what I meant, O great and wonderful mindreader.

No thanks....I'm just not up to another round of "As Dense As I Wanna Be" with y'all today. I have better things to do, like...oh, I dunno, watching paint dry.

In other words, there's no way to spin what you said into something less offensive than what it is.

Your "real reason" is defined numerous times in this thread and others. Whether it's "you" or "you ( whatever ) people" it's equally offensive and wrong-minded.


http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i296/Darkniciad/mirror.jpg

The profound mistake of Reverend Wright's sermons is not that he spoke about racism in our society. It's that he spoke as if our society was static; as if no progress has been made; as if this country - a country that has made it possible for one of his own members to run for the highest office in the land and build a coalition of white and black; Latino and Asian, rich and poor, young and old -- is still irrevocably bound to a tragic past. But what we know -- what we have seen - is that America can change. That is true genius of this nation. What we have already achieved gives us hope - the audacity to hope - for what we can and must achieve tomorrow.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

I don't think Obama is done.

After reading all these threads about him, I think the U.S. is, though.

A house divided against itself cannot stand.

Sad.

That, unfortunately, is what Obama has done to this country. He has taken the know-nothing-with-no-experience college kids and and black community and turned them against the rest of the democratic party. Come November, the party in general will not have gotten the candidate they really want (Hillary) and either not bothered to vote or voted McCain, the college kids historically don't vote, the 20% black vote will go to Obama.

John McCain is loving it. He's already begun moving his shit into the Oval Office. Thanks Barak.

 

[DeeZire]

That, unfortunately, is what Obama has done to this country. He has taken the know-nothing-with-no-experience college kids and and black community and turned them against the rest of the democratic party.

When a country is already prejudiced against blacks and dismissive of know-nothing college kids, how is that Obama's fault? If standing up for social justice is splitting the democratic party, the party's to blame, not Obama.

... the college kids historically don't vote...

The college kids did vote in the primaries - in record numbers. Basing a political strategy on the way things used to be might work for the conservatives, but it won't bring about change, which is the whole point of the Obama message.

 

[sr71plt]

Some of you act like you've never seen party slugfests for a nomination before--and in this case one where the sluggers aren't even divided by ideology. The Democrats will nominate whoever they wind up nominating, and then the others will fall in behind the nominee and bring whatever supporters they can to bear on the November elections. And the Democrats are getting a whole lot more folks out to the primary polls than the Republicans have been.

In addition, McCain has a big internal party problem of his own, and the Bush administration is doing all it can to encourage a Democratic win in November.

It's hardly time for anyone interested in a Democratic win to be running around screaming "the sky is falling."

 

[Liar]

Good point. The real one being, he is a SOCIALIST.

If by socialist you mean anyone to the left of you, then yes.

If by socialist you mean what people who know what the word means would call a socialist, then no.

 

[amicus]

I suppose someone has to show concern and pat the smelly little mongrel mutt, social democrat, on the head and calm its fears.

Poor whiney little shits, give me free education, free health care, take care of me someone please! Wimpering little wimps who can't make it on their own.

And we want free drugs and the right to butcher babies and sleep with anyone we choose at any time for any reason and we want it now!

And the rest of the world, hell let them butcher all the innocents they want, who cares?

And get rid of all those smelly energy plants, who needs electricity anyway, stick up a wind mill some where, we can always ride bikes to Starbucks....

You see it is not about race or gender, Obama or Clinton, it is about their visions, America does not want a socialist in office...either will fail in the general election.

So the left may as well begin to shed donkey tears again and make plans to move to some socialist haven like nearby Canada, they are open to losers....


Amicus....

 

[sr71plt]

I suppose someone has to show concern and pat the smelly little mongrel mutt, social democrat, on the head and calm its fears.

Poor whiney little shits, give me free education, free health care, take care of me someone please! Wimpering little wimps who can't make it on their own.

And we want free drugs and the right to butcher babies and sleep with anyone we choose at any time for any reason and we want it now!

And the rest of the world, hell let them butcher all the innocents they want, who cares?

And get rid of all those smelly energy plants, who needs electricity anyway, stick up a wind mill some where, we can always ride bikes to Starbucks....

You see it is not about race or gender, Obama or Clinton, it is about their visions, America does not want a socialist in office...either will fail in the general election.

So the left may as well begin to shed donkey tears again and make plans to move to some socialist haven like nearby Canada, they are open to losers....


Amicus....

You must be a real joy to have at the breakfast table before that first cup of coffee.

 

[amicus]

You must be a real joy to have at the breakfast table before that first cup of coffee.

~~~

It's kinda like waking up to another cloudy, rainy cold day when spring is officially here and hearing the fucking wimps on the news, proclaiming the glory of soggy socialism...always ruins my appetite and draws me to strong coffee.

Fucking Liberals behind every garbage can nowadays...


Ami...