A Tragedy in Maine

[KarennaC]

Over the weekend in Maine, a woman was murdered by her son. The son's wife actually witnessed him choking his mother, and didn't try to stop him. When the son called 911, he claimed at first that his mother had choked herself, but no one bought it.

The reason for the murder? The mother had been having sex with her son since he was a child. After the son married, the mother entered a sexual relationship with his wife as well. The three of them lived together.

This is the second incest-related murder in Maine in the past year or two. A man from the same city as the people in the above story was just sentenced for murdering his father after many years of alleged sexual abuse.

I knew there was a reason I refuse to write parent-child incest...

 

[Guest]

Over the weekend in Maine, a woman was murdered by her son. The son's wife actually witnessed him choking his mother, and didn't try to stop him. When the son called 911, he claimed at first that his mother had choked herself, but no one bought it.

The reason for the murder? The mother had been having sex with her son since he was a child. After the son married, the mother entered a sexual relationship with his wife as well. The three of them lived together.

This is the second incest-related murder in Maine in the past year or two. A man from the same city as the people in the above story was just sentenced for murdering his father after many years of alleged sexual abuse.

I knew there was a reason I refuse to write parent-child incest...

Indeed a tragedy, for all involved.

It doesn't really have a great deal to do with stories on a porn site, though.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

I agree with Sarah about this being at least one area where sexual fantasies on a porn board have no potential connection with real life. People like incest stories because they are rather the ultimate in "forbidden fruit" (the presence of which I think is an important component of good porn [vs erotica], and which is getting tougher to find in our anything-goes society).

As for the real thing, the following is the best response I've seen to it; this was posted in a thread created by an adult woman who was reporting a sexual relationship with her mother (that began after she was an adult):

Originally Posted by Mike260
The issue isn't whether or not they think they're harmed. Whatever they think, they're harmed.

Children of all ages need their parents to guide them and set stable examples for them. In order to offer this, the parents need to keep some distance between their own needs and the needs of their children.

The moment you go to bed with someone, that distance vanishes. The moment you arch your back, spread your legs, and say "I need you to fuck me," you profoundly relinquish your standing as a safe harbor in a potential storm. You're no longer a parent. You are a moaning woman begging your child to make you cum.

And I'll also conjecture that, if it is your daughter (or son) you're asking to hold you, caress you and fuck you in the darkened night, your sexual yearning is coming from a very sad and lonely place. No child should be asked to quench that yearning. That desperate neediness.

And even more than that, no child should ever be asked to join a parent in that lonely, tortuous place that mixes deep sadness and sexual ecstacy.

 

[Pure]

well karenna,

i just read of a man who got jealous and killed his lover. so i won't be writing any more of those hot 'erotic couplings' stories again.

 

[KarennaC]

I didn't intend to imply that stories are the cause of any problems, nor that there's a connection between stories and this case. Each person reads and writes what they like to read and write, and it's all good. The main reason for my final line was that it was around six in the morning my time, and I was too tired to be able to end my post coherently. My apologies to anyone who might have been offended by my referencing incest stories. I don't have anything against the stories at all; I was just absolutely horrified by the news of this case and by thinking of how that young man must have felt for the past two thirds or so of his life. But as sweetsubsarahh said, that has nothing to do with stories.

 

[Guest]

I didn't intend to imply that stories are the cause of any problems, nor that there's a connection between stories and this case. Each person reads and writes what they like to read and write, and it's all good. The main reason for my final line was that it was around six in the morning my time, and I was too tired to be able to end my post coherently. My apologies to anyone who might have been offended by my referencing incest stories. I don't have anything against the stories at all; I was just absolutely horrified by the news of this case and by thinking of how that young man must have felt for the past two thirds or so of his life. But as sweetsubsarahh said, that has nothing to do with stories.

No apologies needed. It is truly a horrible thing that happened, and it seems the news is filled with happenings like this these days.

 

[rgraham666]

Things like this were probably more common a century ago.

But social norms would usually hush it up. And mass media was a lot less massive and pervasive.

So now it just seems more common because people now talk about it and media spreads it around.

 

[NoJo]

It's like a Greek tragedy.

Incest stories are rather too close to home for quite a few authors here. But for me, who had an incest-free life, I find these stories fascinating. And not in a car-crash way.

 

[gauchecritic]

The issue isn't whether or not they think they're harmed. Whatever they think, they're harmed.

I'd have to disagree with this almost in its entirety but would agree completely if one word was substituted.

The issue isn't whether or not they think they're changed. Whatever they think, they're changed.

The harm is not caused by one simple act (as can be evidenced by lots of admittedly anecdotal references)

I wouldn't put the murder down to the sex as the story seems to want to. It would seem that (reading between the lines) he would have eventually choked her anyway due more to the idea that he didn't have a life of his own.

Son's historically lust for mothers. Mothers are not immune to transferring sexual advances to sons (this is a psychologically documented happening [don't ask me for references]) surely the two are likely to coincide sometimes?

What causes the problems is that 'others think so'.

 

[jomar]

The issue isn't whether or not they think they're harmed. Whatever they think, they're harmed.

How? Let me explain below. (Though maybe I'm off-topic by not talking about parent-child incest.)

I'd have to disagree with this almost in its entirety but would agree completely if one word was substituted.

The issue isn't whether or not they think they're changed. Whatever they think, they're changed.

The harm is not caused by one simple act (as can be evidenced by lots of admittedly anecdotal references)

I wouldn't put the murder down to the sex as the story seems to want to. It would seem that (reading between the lines) he would have eventually choked her anyway due more to the idea that he didn't have a life of his own.

Son's historically lust for mothers. Mothers are not immune to transferring sexual advances to sons (this is a psychologically documented happening [don't ask me for references]) surely the two are likely to coincide sometimes?

What causes the problems is that 'others think so'.

Without commenting on oedipal things, there are individuals who have incest who are certainly changed. In that way I agree with gauch. That is not to say most aren't harmed, though. I believe they are.

However, not all are damaged in the way I am familiar with regarding sexual abuse. I know of close in age siblings whose parents were so distant/abusive/what have you, that they became incestuously close. They had sex from early teens into their adult years and occasionally after they were married to others. In their view, this was a loving, supportive, healing way to survive and they felt no guilt, remorse or ickiness because it helped them.

I am not saying that other circumstances would be preferable, but under what they had to endure - who am I to judge what they had to do to become fairly well adjusted adults. And they are.

 

[Ootpic]

KarennaC,

You began this thread with a post – without citation – about a murder of a woman by her son, while the man’s wife witnessed, but in which she neither interfered nor participated.

Then you add that there was an incestuous relationship of long standing between the man and his mother, which grew to include the wife when she entered the scene.

(Aside: I do not believe that the relationship between the wife and her mother-in-law could be characterized as incestuous — lesbian, yes, but there was no blood relationship. Unless you believe that a man who marries his brother’s widow is guilty of incest, neither are the mother and her daughter-in-law — just an unorthodox liaison.)

You further assert – again without citation – that another alleged incestuous relationship between a father and son in that same town, also ended in murder.

Finally, you comment that you knew there was a reason why you refuse to write incest stories.

After it is pointed out that there is no evidence that the incestuous murderers were in anyway influenced by stories about incest, and that, indeed, there is no correlation between the two, you agree.

“I didn't intend to imply that stories are the cause of any problems, nor that there's a connection between stories and this case.” you write, adding, “My apologies to anyone who might have been offended “ . . . ” I was just absolutely horrified by the news of this case.”

Granting that you mean what you say, and that you know your own motives, could you please satisfy my curiosity about WHAT WAS YOUR REASON for beginning this thread?

 

[Guest]

She explained it - She said it was early, she was tired, and she was horrified by the story.

Makes sense to me.

 

[KarennaC]

My reason for beginning the thread was that I was stunned and appalled by the events, and as is my nature, I put my thoughts and feelings in writing. I also thought it would spawn some discussion, as many threads on this forum seem to do. I've seen other threads here that began with a description of a news story. I probably should have posted this on the General Board rather than Author's Hangout, and if anyone would like to move it, please feel free to do so.

Whether the relationship between the mother and daughter-in-law was incestuous depends on the definition of incest. If it's defined as a sexual relationship between close family members, then that relationship could be considered incestuous. However, I grant that many people would not consider a relationship between in-laws to be incestuous.

As for the "without citation", true, I didn't state my sources. However, both stories have been extensively covered by Maine television channels and newspapers.

 

[KarennaC]

Sweetsubsarahh, thank you... you posted while I was typing

 

[Guest]

Sweetsubsarahh, thank you... you posted while I was typing