Why I am no longer a Christian

[cloudy]

I found this blog article by chance, and knew it had to be shared. She even uses my favoritest word in the world: smiting.

eta: If I offend anyone with this post, its unintentional. I just thought the entire thing was funny.

********
1) One of my main problems was the idea of the inerrancy of the Bible.
This is a book whose earliest parts were supposedly written almost 2000 years ago, and then copied by hand for over a thousand years. And that is just the New Testament. The Old Testament is supposed to be much older than that. People in church would say “God wouldn’t allow his word to be altered” or, my favorite, “the Bible is inerrant because the Bible says it is inerrant.” That’s air-tight logic right there. Obviously, God’s word does get distorted all the time. Even a word for word translation is going to lose it’s shades of meaning. And that doesn’t even take into account the fact that there are dozens of translations of the Bible just into English. Which one is correct? They can’t all be right.

2) The misogynistic viewpoint of the Bible and the church.
As Serendipity says in Dogma: “Women are painted as bigger antagonists than the Egyptians and Romans combined. It stinks.” From the Garden of Eden to Abraham and Sarah and Hagar to Samson and Delilah to David and Bathsheba. It’s a wonder it wasn’t Mary Magdalene who betrayed Jesus instead of Judas. And that is just the characters. Read the rules laid down on everyday women in the Old Testament sometime. It makes the way the Taliban treat women seem tame.

[Article quote shortened per our forum guidelines.]

Blog is here.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

So you're smitten with this article, eh?






PS - my post from Mab's thread:

BTW, it is impossible to get a religious believer to debate epistemology in good faith. No matter how many Bibles they swear on promising good faith, at some point they always come back to asserting a claim based on no standard of evidence that even they would accept for real-world matters. IOW, they shift the standards in the middle of the game, and the basis for discussion disappears.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

Well, I think much as you do, Cloudy. But just to clearify, the greatest share of the Bible (Old Testiment) was written 5000 years ago. Then the lesser share (New Testiment) was written about 2000 years ago. Also, I would point out that the Old Testiment was rewritten from older texts that no longer exist and the New Testiment was written up to 60 years after the periods that are portrayed. There is no way of varifying the accuracy of a single page of the Bible. Biblical Archeologists have been trying for 120 years. Still nada.

The acceptance of Jesus (the) Christ as savior, God and so on are based only in the teachings of the church, not the Bible. Remember in Revolations, the Angel told John (paraphrasing) "Be careful who you worship. That is for God only."

And that illustrates the problem with religion - The Bible proves the Bible. Isn't that real like saying Wilber has a purple penis so all men has purple dicks?

Let's not forget that parts of the Bible have been altered, parts have been added centuries after they were written and other parts deleted because they didn't fit with Catholic Litergy.

Jesus never had the ability to grant forgiveness. In the Gosspil Book of John, Jesus says, in effect, "Don't pray to me, pray to God in my name." Again the literagy gets in the way. Churches, almost universally, insist that Jesus, God and some unnamed "Holy Spirit/Ghost" are a single entity. The Bible itself disproves that idea.

My final comment concerns Paul. The common teaching is that there were twelve apostles. In fact there were thirteen (Judas died and Barnabas was chosen to replace him) or, we are to believe Paul, fourteen, when Paul became the "Apostil to the Nations." I've always seen this as a kind of Jim Jones, self appointment to drag the heathen Greeks, Muslims and so on into the fold of Christianity. The Jews were no even concidered. You had to be a Jew in the first century to be a Christian. Oops! That thinking just ain't right. In order to become a Christian you had first to become a Jew? How many guys are going to let some other guy whack off a piece of the weiner? This entire concept has been buried by the church.

I don't entirely agree with you, Cloudy, but I don't entirely disagree either. With what the Litergy has done to Christianity, I could never be one either, unless I started my own Christian Religion and backed it up to the understanding of religion of the first century and did away with all the useless trappings of religion.

 

[cloudy]

I didn't write it, Jenny, but it pretty much sums up a lot of what I think about organized religion in general, as well as my feelings about Christianity.

 

[TxRad]

Cloudy, southerners aren't Christians, they are Baptists.

There's a world of difference.

 

[cloudy]

Cloudy, southerners aren't Christians, they are Baptists.

There's a world of difference.

Indeed. Baptists are allowed to gossip like a fiend, but as long as they go to church every time the doors are open, they can still claim to be a good Christian.

 

[gauchecritic]

You had to be a Jew in the first century to be a Christian. Oops! That thinking just ain't right. In order to become a Christian you had first to become a Jew? How many guys are going to let some other guy whack off a piece of the weiner? This entire concept has been buried by the church.

I don't think that's true. You can't 'become' a jew. You can follow the faith all you like but unless you are born to a jewish mother (very important distinction) you can never be of the chosen people.

(which is why sons have to marry nice jewish girls. It also implies that they had a vague grasp of genetics too)

 

[impressive]

Well, those aren't the reasons I'm "no longer" a Christian. I'd say they're the reasons I "never was" one.

There is value in the tenets of damned near every religion, but I don't eat from just one menu and I never will.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I was a Christian until I read EXCAVATING JESUS by John Crossan.

Historical Jesus was a petty socialist thug who kept away from large towns and cities in fear of arrest and prosecution for his political opinions.

He wasnt born in Bethlehem as Joseph had no reason to be there. Census was taken and taxes were collected where you lived, not where you were born.

There was no synagogue in Nazareth. It was too small in population, and a town with a synagogue was located 4 miles away from Nazareth. Much of Jesus' life was nomadic before he went to Jerusalem. Jesus was used to create a 'religion' because hardly anyone knew of him or knew enough about him to dispute his mythology.

Virgin birth was the Jewish euphemism for a child born before the parents married. Marriage was a special occasion requiring preparation, and oft-times the couple began married life before the ceremony.

 

[Carnevil9]

My biggest problem with the Bible is that the Corinthians never wrote back!!

 

[BOSTONFICTIONWRITER]

Dante's Inferno

The reason why I no longer participate in my religion, I'm a Catholic, is because the Catholic church is all about money and has always been, even that fact was highlighted in Dante's fictional work, Dante's Inferno where all the Popes were burning in Hell.

Vatican City should be abolished with all the poverty that is in the world and there the golden city stands in sparkling splendor against the struggles that so many of us face affording food and necessities.

Feed the poor, shelter the homeless, help people take care of themselves by giving them jobs, education, and pride instead of making a Popemobile for the Pope.

I have my own church that I disappear to when I'm alone with my thoughts and meditating. That's my God, the one that's with me in my head. And that's my religion, the way that I treat and help other people.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

I don't think that's true. You can't 'become' a jew. You can follow the faith all you like but unless you are born to a jewish mother (very important distinction) you can never be of the chosen people.

(which is why sons have to marry nice jewish girls. It also implies that they had a vague grasp of genetics too)

That is true. The effect in the first century was to limit Christianity to Jews only. "Apostil to the Nations" appearantly meant Jewish Nations only, even though the Catholic Church put a different spin on the meaning 200 years later.

 

[3113]

Sister Cloudy, I hear you, and I feel your pain! Clearly you need some place where you can find comfort, a temporary retreat from the folk knocking at your door trying to convert you or people on the television/internet telling you how to think. A place where you can vent and gather strength.

Might I suggest: EvilBible
And should you feel inclined, there is also: The Brights

You are not alone...just in a minority

 

[3113]

You can't 'become' a jew. You can follow the faith all you like but unless you are born to a jewish mother (very important distinction) you can never be of the chosen people.

Not so, actually. You can convert, it's just not easy. It takes a year or study and such, and a particular conversion ceremony that is, well, a baptism.

Hey, what does everyone think John the Baptist was doing back before Jesus had been crucified and people were baptized in his name? He was performing an ancient Jewish ritual called: Mikvah (or Mikveh)

It is:

a specific type of bath designed for the purpose of ritual immersion...The word "mikvah", as used in the Hebrew Bible, literally means a "collection" - generally, a collection of water. Several biblical regulations specify that full immersion in water is required to regain ritual purity after ritually impure incidents have occurred. Most forms of impurity can be nullified through immersion in any natural collection of water.
Its main uses nowadays are:
by Jewish women to achieve ritual purity after menstruation or childbirth
by Jewish men to achieve ritual purity
as part of a traditional procedure for conversion to Judaism
for utensils used for food

Full article here: Mikvah

Yes. You can convert to Judaism. And so long as the woman a man is married to is Jewish either by birth or by conversion, the children will be considered Jewish, whether they practice the faith or not.

 

[English Lady]

I actually find it kinda saddening...that Christians are setting such a bad example that they're driving people away.

I'm not a debater and I know that's not the point of this thread but..

God loves everyone -especially sinners, Jesus was very pro-women, the bible isn't infalliable but the word of God is (Humans have had a hand in the bible and you've heard of human error,right?*L*), religion is often an excuse for war and I'm the same as every other person on this earth and as a christian I don't take any pleasure in thinking about anyone going to hell.

I just had to get that off my chest

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

I actually find it kinda saddening...that Christians are setting such a bad example that they're driving people away.

I'm not a debater and I know that's not the point of this thread but..

God loves everyone -especially sinners, Jesus was very pro-women, the bible isn't infalliable but the word of God is (Humans have had a hand in the bible and you've heard of human error,right?*L*), religion is often an excuse for war and I'm the same as every other person on this earth and as a christian I don't take any pleasure in thinking about anyone going to hell.

I just had to get that off my chest

You are setting a fine example, EL.

 

[English Lady]

You are setting a fine example, EL.

Nah, not really but I do my best.

 

[christabelll]

Having been kicked out of more "christian" churches than I care to count - I rather lost any beleif I may have had in it...

That said however -
I am very eclectic in my beliefs... Its what works for me and While I wish that others were more tolerant of my right to beleive as I will... - the principle of "And it harm none" - I understand the whole dynamic of protection and oppression in larger groups. Its a crying shame but its the stark reality most hold dear.

I could wish to share my personal ideaology and iconography but unless you are willing to be candid and unaccusatory - non judgemental - that mine are different, I will not go there with you.

Anyway - It was funny, but it was also thought provoking.

I was so shocked when my grandmother told me she beleive that the world and life began with Jesus... Loved her any way and didnt waste my time nor hers with useless arguements-and she respected that I believed just a "little" differently.

Its the evangels and prostelizers (that fucking word!) that make it hard... and its the politicians believing they are god that make it worse.....



God I am so sick of not being well!!!!!! Fix me damnit! LOLOLOLOLOL

 

[Stegral]

I was raised Catholic, followed Satanism in my teens because he seemed so much cooler than tight assed Catholics, tried the christianity side again in my early twenties & into my early thirties. all of the "god fearing" religions have always seemed severly lopsided to me, I personally need balance. Add in the crusades, the witch hunts & such I couldn't follow a religion based on fear, opression & convienient truths.
Being Pagan is about as close as I can get to the balance I need.

 

[Stella_Omega]

If you are ever in the mood for a screaming argument about religions;

http://craigslist.org/forums/?forumID=59 is the religions forum,
http://craigslist.org/forums/?forumID=78 is the atheists forum

Enjoy!

 

[gauchecritic]

Yes. You can convert to Judaism. And so long as the woman a man is married to is Jewish either by birth or by conversion, the children will be considered Jewish, whether they practice the faith or not.

Then we disagree.

 

[gauchecritic]

I just had to get that off my chest

and a fine chest to get things off of.

 

[English Lady]

and a fine chest to get things off of.

Thank you!

 

[john-the-author]

I don't think that's true. You can't 'become' a jew. You can follow the faith all you like but unless you are born to a jewish mother (very important distinction) you can never be of the chosen people.

(which is why sons have to marry nice jewish girls. It also implies that they had a vague grasp of genetics too)

In fact, it really was. Malachi Martin, S.J., in his excellent book "The Decline and Fall of the Roman Church," describes how Paul used this to his advantage. The Jerusalem church, run by the relatives of Jesus, were saying "You have to become a Jew to be a Christian--follow dietary laws, act accordingly, and (if you're male) get circumcised." In a time of no anesthetics and no antiseptics, this was not a stirringly popular idea... and yet they did have a surprising number of people sign up for this, even so.

Paul (who was a shit through and through) said "No, no, nooooo! You don't have to be a Jew first. Leave your wiener alone!! The church in Rome that I'm running will be GLAAAAAAAAAD to have you just as you are!" He managed to squeeze the church in Jerusalem--even though it was being run by Jesus's relatives--out of business.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I've never seen so many people hate their religion as much as you Christians do. What the hell do they do to you in church?