Intersexed/Hermaphrodites

[slyc_willie]

I've had this story idea for quite some time, springing from a long-held personal fantasy. A story about a man who falls in love with a very feminine hermaphrodite. The female character in my story is described as being 'fully functional as both a male and female.'

Now, I've done a lot of reasearch. Or tried to, actually. I've read numerous blogs and articles about Intersexuality, but there seems to be a lot of confusion about just how 'functional' hermaphrodites can be. I understand that the majority of them have predominantly female characteristics, meaning slender builds, breasts, and feminine features. That fits right in with my character.

I also know that Intersexed doesn't necessarily mean a person with fully developed male and female secondary sexual characteristics. It may be that the person has a vagina with a very large, protruding clitoris.

About a year ago, I managed to find a video in which two intersexed women were making love. Both were very feminine in all respects, but each also had a fully developed penis. Everything looks authentic in the video, with both women ejaculating at the end of the clip. Not for everyone, admittedly, but I find it to be a very hot clip.

So with all this said, I would like to know what others think or know about this topic. Anything I can learn to describe my character more accurately and faithfully is very much appreciated.

 

[MagicaPractica]

I've been told recently that intersexed people tend to have a very male mentality. The person who told me that said it was something they were told by a psychologist. That's the extent of my knowledge, for what it's worth.

 

[tickledkitty]

I think that could be a good story, as long as you treat them as humans and not just wank material.

 

[slyc_willie]

I think that could be a good story, as long as you treat them as humans and not just wank material.

That's the main focus. This isn't a story about transexuals, and I'm not focusing on her body solely as how it functions during sex, but how it has been a source of depression and frustration for her throughout her life.

I'm twenty-five pages in and they haven't had sex yet.

 

[SweetWitch]

There are many causes of intersexuality, just as there are many levels of the development. For the purposes of this story, you may wish to use mosaicism or chimerism as the cause. There are interesting studies and other information on many different academic sites, as well as personal history blogs.

Either of these disorders could create the female personage that you seek.

 

[secretme]

Okay I have to admit that I'm curious about the video clip you're referring to. My understanding was that generally speaking both parts weren't fully functional. Oddly enough I've done limited research on the topic too... Never really thought to run into someone else who was interested. But I suppose on this site... Well. In any case my current understanding is pretty much in accordance with what you've described. Predominately female with enlarged clitoris. Most of those clips out there are faked. So unless you know the source I wouldn't count it as reliable. A good deal of the information I found involved the psychology of the situation and how parents are often required by doctors (or were in the past) to choose what sex to raise the child as. At that point there were a number of instances where the offending genitalia was "dealt" with. There was an instance with twins where one was raised male and the other female, because the parents were told that the children's personalities were all nurture and not nature. They gave one trucks and the other dolls and expected that to work. In the end both committed suicide. In more recent history the issues are less of mutilation and more of the problem that these kids don't know where they fit in. If the parents guess/choose wrong about what sex to raise them as there ends up being problems. Well more problems than the kid would already have in this society.

I don't know if that helps. My research was more psychologically based than biologically based. I don't know if any of my links left over from that project would give biological info or not. I'll check for you. Good luck!

And I sent you a PM about something you mentioned last week. Could you give it a look?

 

[slyc_willie]

Okay I have to admit that I'm curious about the video clip you're referring to. My understanding was that generally speaking both parts weren't fully functional. Oddly enough I've done limited research on the topic too... Never really thought to run into someone else who was interested. But I suppose on this site... Well. In any case my current understanding is pretty much in accordance with what you've described. Predominately female with enlarged clitoris. Most of those clips out there are faked. So unless you know the source I wouldn't count it as reliable. A good deal of the information I found involved the psychology of the situation and how parents are often required by doctors (or were in the past) to choose what sex to raise the child as. At that point there were a number of instances where the offending genitalia was "dealt" with. There was an instance with twins where one was raised male and the other female, because the parents were told that the children's personalities were all nurture and not nature. They gave one trucks and the other dolls and expected that to work. In the end both committed suicide. In more recent history the issues are less of mutilation and more of the problem that these kids don't know where they fit in. If the parents guess/choose wrong about what sex to raise them as there ends up being problems. Well more problems than the kid would already have in this society.

I don't know if that helps. My research was more psychologically based than biologically based. I don't know if any of my links left over from that project would give biological info or not. I'll check for you. Good luck!

And I sent you a PM about something you mentioned last week. Could you give it a look?

The video clip I have is very convincing. There are numerous closeups, and the penises don't look fake. Both women were able to penetrate each other vaginally (and at the same time, interestingly enough).

Now, if I only had that clip as the basis for my knowledge, I would be skeptical as well. But I've read numerous personal blogs. One was a very frank account of growing up, pretending to be a boy and then a man, before deciding to 'come out.' She has a female partner, and together, they have two children now. She wasn't clear, however, if she inseminated her lover.

 

[secretme]

The video clip I have is very convincing. There are numerous closeups, and the penises don't look fake. Both women were able to penetrate each other vaginally (and at the same time, interestingly enough).

Now, if I only had that clip as the basis for my knowledge, I would be skeptical as well. But I've read numerous personal blogs. One was a very frank account of growing up, pretending to be a boy and then a man, before deciding to 'come out.' She has a female partner, and together, they have two children now. She wasn't clear, however, if she inseminated her lover.

That's interesting. I suppose anything is plausible. I can't really think of anything that could discount it...

 

[SweetWitch]

The video clip I have is very convincing. There are numerous closeups, and the penises don't look fake. Both women were able to penetrate each other vaginally (and at the same time, interestingly enough).

Now, if I only had that clip as the basis for my knowledge, I would be skeptical as well. But I've read numerous personal blogs. One was a very frank account of growing up, pretending to be a boy and then a man, before deciding to 'come out.' She has a female partner, and together, they have two children now. She wasn't clear, however, if she inseminated her lover.

I would have to say, by what little I've read, that would have to be no.

 

[slyc_willie]

I would have to say, by what little I've read, that would have to be no.

I was thinking that as well, since I don't believe intersexed people develop testes. I may be wrong. The ejaculate the women produced in the clip seemed real enough, though. But then, sperm is only one-seventh, I believe, of the fluid produced.

 

[SweetWitch]

I was thinking that as well, since I don't believe intersexed people develop testes. I may be wrong. The ejaculate the women produced in the clip seemed real enough, though. But then, sperm is only one-seventh, I believe, of the fluid produced.

Some have female organs developed enough to menstruate, so it only stands to reason that some would have male organs developed enough to emit some form of fluid.

 

[secretme]

Some have female organs developed enough to menstruate, so it only stands to reason that some would have male organs developed enough to emit some form of fluid.

I'd have to agree with that. But I still can't see the parts being equally developed to the normal standards... But in the end slyc it's fiction. Write it how you like. There's probably a case out there to support just about any angle. If you look hard enough.

 

[secretme]

P.S.

You might find "Queen of New Orleans" by Bon Jovi and interesting ditty.

 

[slyc_willie]

I'd have to agree with that. But I still can't see the parts being equally developed to the normal standards... But in the end slyc it's fiction. Write it how you like. There's probably a case out there to support just about any angle. If you look hard enough.

Excellent points. I just want to be as accurate as I can. It will be enough for me that my character could actually exist, and function as I envision her to, if there is even one real case out there that matches her.

 

[SweetWitch]

Excellent points. I just want to be as accurate as I can. It will be enough for me that my character could actually exist, and function as I envision her to, if there is even one real case out there that matches her.

I'm sure there is. Try looking here: http://www.transgenderzone.com/library/hl/fulltext/30.htm

 

[slyc_willie]

I'm sure there is. Try looking here: http://www.transgenderzone.com/library/hl/fulltext/30.htm

Thanks, Molly. I actually read that article as I was doing my research, but it's always good to refresh.

 

[SweetWitch]

Thanks, Molly. I actually read that article as I was doing my research, but it's always good to refresh.

I actually did some research on this a few weeks back for a story idea I had, so I was interested when you started this thread. The story went south fast, so I ditched it.

 

[Emerald_Dragon]

We acctually had a couple in our childbirth classes that had a hermaphrodite baby. 'He' had full sets of both organs. They had him tested and his genetic make up was XY so he had surgery at about a year old and he became a he.

I always wondered if they made the right choice, making that choice for him.

You hear about the people that feel so strongly that they were born in the wrong body and what they go through so they can finally feel comfortable in their own skins. I hope that he doesn't turn to them some time in the future and say "God I wish I had been born a woman"

As for the hermaphrodites being more female looking I think that that would be more dependent on hormones and which (ovaries or testes) are 'better developed' and pumping out hormones. For kids, it is often impossible for skilled archeologists to tell the difference between young boys and girls.


Maybe having both sets of sex hormones would screw things up, dont know.

sounds like a cool story.

 

[slyc_willie]

We acctually had a couple in our childbirth classes that had a hermaphrodite baby. 'He' had full sets of both organs. They had him tested and his genetic make up was XY so he had surgery at about a year old and he became a he.

I always wondered if they made the right choice, making that choice for him.

You hear about the people that feel so strongly that they were born in the wrong body and what they go through so they can finally feel comfortable in their own skins. I hope that he doesn't turn to them some time in the future and say "God I wish I had been born a woman"

As for the hermaphrodites being more female looking I think that that would be more dependent on hormones and which (ovaries or testes) are 'better developed' and pumping out hormones. For kids, it is often impossible for skilled archeologists to tell the difference between young boys and girls.


Maybe having both sets of sex hormones would screw things up, dont know.

sounds like a cool story.

I've learned that quite a few intersexed persons go through various forms of hormone therapy in an effort to make them more male or female. From what I've read, the decisions to do so are always amde by the parents, and are conducted before the child begins puberty.

I've wondered the same thing as you. In a perfect world, intersexed children would be left 'as is' and allowed to make their own decisions. But also in a perfect world, there would be no ostracism from friends and schoolmates if the truth was ever discovered.

 

[SweetWitch]

I've learned that quite a few intersexed persons go through various forms of hormone therapy in an effort to make them more male or female. From what I've read, the decisions to do so are always amde by the parents, and are conducted before the child begins puberty.

I've wondered the same thing as you. In a perfect world, intersexed children would be left 'as is' and allowed to make their own decisions. But also in a perfect world, there would be no ostracism from friends and schoolmates if the truth was ever discovered.

I remember my grandmother telling me about a cousin of hers that "walked with two spirits." She finally told me one day that it meant her cousin was neither male or female and was in fact, both. She said that the way of the ancients was to revere this person as a wisdom-giver, not to shun him/her as a thing of ridicule. She said it took the white man to teach them that.

 

[starrkers]

I rember seeing a cdocumentary years ago about this subject. It featured heavily on an island in the pacific somewhere where the people had a history of children looking like girls until puberty when they developed as fully functioning males. These people were brought up as girls and were indistiguishable from "real" girls until puberty.
It was apparently traced back as a mutation to one common ancestor.
There was another person, African don't remember exactly what nationality, who had a penis, one testicle, one ovary and female bits too, including breasts. He was in for surgery to finally become a man.

 

[OLDERNWISER]

.....

 

[SweetWitch]

I read an amazing book a few years ago, "Middlesex" by Jeffrey Eugenides that among other things put you inside the mind of a hermaphrodite. This character was a male psychologically (I hope that is the correct way to put it) who's parents tried to raise him as a female. If you can make the time to read this you will find it well worth your while.

Good call. I remember that book. It might be just the thing he needs.

 

[secretme]

I sent him a link that I think will answer all his questions. As it turns out, pretty much everything is plausible. Go figure...

 

[sweetness6280]

Most hermaphrodites are genetically female, and usually have a uterus. Some may have an ovary and fallopian tube on one side of their body, and one testical and vas on the other side. However, especially in the past, most were raised as boys, because the penis was more prominent at birth. This caused complications at puberty, when they began to develop breasts, and even menstruate.

True hermaphroditism is very rare (about 1 in 65,000 births). Pseudohermaphroditism is more common, occurring in 1 in 20,000 births. In pseudoHP, the internal organs match the genetic makeup, but the external parts are either ambiguous or of the other sex. The split on genetic makeup (XX or XY) is about even for pseudoHP.

The video could very well be authentic. While many HPs do not have both sets of genitalia fully functioning, it does happen. Ejaculation is not only possible, some have active sperm in the ejaculate.

Today, most babies born with HP or pseudoHP are surgically repaired (not liking the term, but can't think of another right now) shortly after birth. The parents are still the ones who make the decision, with the advice of the doctors. Again the problem can be that many hospitals simply do not have the resources to do genetic testing, and a wrong decision can easily be made.

My info is a couple years old, from an advanced human sex class. The basic info is correct, excluding any advances made in the last few years.

There are so many variables and variations, almost anything is possible. And, as someone pointed out, it's fiction. You can create what you wish. I can't wait to read it.