And the bad...Tales of Relationship Crises

[intothewoods]

I was inspired to start this thread after reading Velvet's I bit it off ... thread about a financial issue in an M/s relationship.

Someone made the comment there, in jest, that M/s sounds just like marriage and, well, in a way, it's true! Not quite, of course. The power dynamic is most often different. But in general, if you are truly going to stick it out in a marriage, there will be a time when you must compromise. For a sub or slave, you defer to your PYL's authority - even when you don't want to. And, although a D or M is the one with the power, I'm sure there is also a similar moment for the D or M when he or she has had to put his or her feelings aside for the greater good of the relationship. No matter what the dynamic or who you are in it - shit hits the fan and you got through it.

I'm presently separated, but when I was married, there were a number of times when I compromised, and tried to then let it go, but then felt a lot of resentment surface later. I don't want to do that again if I get remarried. Whatever dynamic I settle into, I want to be able to get through these times. I suspect an important component is feeling appreciated, valued, or heard. I'm trying to really wrap my head around this, to see if I can really make a go of it with someone, for life.

So. For those of you who are in long term relationships, when and how did you decide that the person you are with was worth this? Or a better way to put it might be, that the person you are with was the right person to defer to when you don't want to, to compromise for, etc.? And if you have made it through a crisis that tested your commitment, I would love to hear about whatever details you are willing to share. Thank you.

 

[ecstaticsub]

I have been married for over 20 years. We met in high school. He is my soul mate. I knew he was the love of my life and the one I would marry after our first date. It was pure chemistry. There was something inside me that just clicked that told me he was the one I would go to the ends of the earth for. The best part is he felt the same way after our first date. Because of college commitments we waited five years before we got married, but we did and have been happy ever since.

That's not to say we haven't had our downs along with our ups. I don't know if I could ever be happy in a M/s or even a D/s marriage. With my husband and I there are things he is better at and things I am better at. No one really decided who would do what we just evolved over the years to our roles. But we are very flexible and we both compromise. We also know what each other feels strongly about and we don't force the other to compromise on those issues.

There was one time in our life that was extremely difficult. But we both knew that it was more outside forces that we couldn't control that was causing the difficulties. We knew they wouldn't last forever. We also both knew that we loved each with a love that nothing could ever change. The crises time did blow over ,took 2 years though, but we were patient.

I plan to be with him as long as we live.

 

[EmpressFi]

So. For those of you who are in long term relationships, when and how did you decide that the person you are with was worth this? Or a better way to put it might be, that the person you are with was the right person to defer to when you don't want to, to compromise for, etc.? And if you have made it through a crisis that tested your commitment, I would love to hear about whatever details you are willing to share. Thank you.

I knew Malin was the one the first time I met him in person (we'd been friends online for a few months before meeting in person.

We've been together 12 years and that doesnt mean that we havent had trying times or that we arent having them. When Malin lost his job and it took a while to find a new one, things were tough. But sometimes, I compromise and sometimes he does. I guess that's the difference between marriage and a M/s relationship. In a TPE, one person always defers to the other. I know I couldnt do that without a build up of resentment. I just know that's not me. Sometimes, I know he feels we fight "all the time", but I think how we argue tells more than the amount. He taught me that it was ok to get angry and to tell someone that I am upset, as long as I dont say or do things to cause harm. I'm sure now that he wishes he hadnt done that.

But at the end of the day, I love him and cant see myself being with anyone else. No one else gets me.

 

[Bandit58]

We have had disagreements, but rarely. The difficulties in our relationship are due to Sir's health problems. He's in hospital right now in fact. We hate being apart, but I'm glad that I have the inner strength to help support Him (He does get so stressed in there).

He told me today that He has thought more than once of making me leave and go back to NZ. I told Him He is stuck with me We love each other so much - we have weathered several crises and no doubt there will be more, but we'll do that together.

 

[Homburg]

I asked her to marry me a week after our first date.
We got married seven years later.
Seventeen years together, and we're still going.

I decided that night, one week after our first date, in the parking lot of a Hardees somewhere in the wee hours of the morning, that she was the right gal for me. She concurred.

Our relationship has had its' challenges, and recently has been brought right up to the breaking point, complete with major fissures. We're still together. She's worth it, in my eyes. It seems I'm worth it in hers. And details are just not important beyond, are they?

As to deference, whatever. You set your level of deference and compromise. If you have trust issues, and it wouldn't surprise me from your posts, then you are likely to set your deference and compromise points at a different spot than someone that realises way deep down that this person they are with is just that worth trusting. And, honestly, a good bit of it is the person you're with. If you've never been in the sort of relationship that carries deep, serious, concrete trust (not just the appearance of trust, but the "holy shit, I can't believe how much I trust this person" sort of trust), you are not likely to be able to really deeply comprehend why someone would give up that much power.

You've made a lot of posts expressing your issues with D/s and M/s. Why try? Why not just be a bottom, and not sweat it? Why fret over submission if it is confusing?

 

[Netzach]

I think we drive each other fucking crazy every day, but the thought of not waking up with the other one there is worse than anything I could think of, and I think he feels the same. It's cost/benefit.

 

[BiBunny]

You've made a lot of posts expressing your issues with D/s and M/s. Why try? Why not just be a bottom, and not sweat it? Why fret over submission if it is confusing?

I'm not presuming to answer for ITW here, just wanting to throw my own thoughts out there. (She's a big girl; she can answer for herself.)

For some of us (read: me) submission is a hard thing. I have walls upon walls upon walls built around myself and my heart because I have this uncanny ability to turn everything I touch to shit, no matter how hard I try to the contrary. I will crack bad jokes, attempt to derail the conversation, philosophize, act bitchy and indignant, or any combination of the above to keep from having to face my submissive desires. Hell, I even find myself doing it on Lit. Imagine what a pain in the ass it is in my personal relationships.

That being said, I truly need someone to fuss over and worry about and generally make happy. I hesitate at actually saying I need someone to serve, but that may be more my aversion to the connotation the word has amongst us perverts than its lack of fit for me. (Did that even make sense?)

I find myself thinking about submission a lot lately, and it does confuse the hell out of me. I know nobody here will believe it, but my capacity for love and obedience and devotion is more or less limitless. But I keep a close rein on it 99.9% of the time. If I can fool myself into thinking that I'm basically in control of myself, all is ok in my head. It's when I think I might be losing the tenuous grip on myself that things get all fucked up.

I'm a fun bottom to play with. I'm a sub for the right person. But wrestling with it sometimes is scary as hell. *Sigh* I'm rambling, aren't I?

 

[rida]

We have been married now for almost 12 years, and I probably love him more now than ever.

We met almost 15 years ago in a Japanese Language class in Tokyo.
As I had a boyfriend at the time and he was married, nothing happened. But we both felt a sudden electric shock of recognition.
Our relationships unfold, and we got together in a LDR for about a year before I moved in with him.
He is the one I was meant to be with, and he feels exactly the same way.

It has not been easy at all. At the beginning he was coming out of a painful divorce, with all the feeling of guilt that it carries. Then work related stress coupled with adjusting to little children took its tall and we had a very rough patch that lasted for about 5 years. But even during those days, we never for a moment I stopped loving each other and forgot what brought us together. We knew the level of intimacy we could have as we got a glimpse of it during a short and wonderful vacation together to a tiny island south of Tokyo right after we got together.

Interestingly enough, what helped us get out of the rut has been Hubby reading about BDSM and realizing his Dominant nature and my submissive one, and stopping to fight it.

Our marriage dynamic has not changed much, as we are not 24/7. I always referred to his decision and always put his happiness and satisfaction before mine and always been very service oriented because that is the way I am. But the cultural teaching of "equality" always made me resent it. But with the new acceptance of our nature, I don't have to anymore.

Ultimately it is down to the fact that I can trust him to have our (mine and the kids) best interest at heart all the time. And knowing that he listen and values my input even when he seems to be dismissing it.

And one more thing I've been sticking to as a rule for a long lasting relationship: if something annoys you, don't let it go just because is little and your are "oh! so in love". Ask yourself if you will be able to let it go in 2 years, 5 years, 10 years, because if you shut up once (ok twice, the first time you might not notice), you better be ready to shut up forever.

Good luck

 

[intothewoods]

I asked her to marry me a week after our first date.
We got married seven years later.
Seventeen years together, and we're still going.

I decided that night, one week after our first date, in the parking lot of a Hardees somewhere in the wee hours of the morning, that she was the right gal for me. She concurred.

Our relationship has had its' challenges, and recently has been brought right up to the breaking point, complete with major fissures. We're still together. She's worth it, in my eyes. It seems I'm worth it in hers. And details are just not important beyond, are they?

As to deference, whatever. You set your level of deference and compromise. If you have trust issues, and it wouldn't surprise me from your posts, then you are likely to set your deference and compromise points at a different spot than someone that realises way deep down that this person they are with is just that worth trusting. And, honestly, a good bit of it is the person you're with. If you've never been in the sort of relationship that carries deep, serious, concrete trust (not just the appearance of trust, but the "holy shit, I can't believe how much I trust this person" sort of trust), you are not likely to be able to really deeply comprehend why someone would give up that much power.

You've made a lot of posts expressing your issues with D/s and M/s. Why try? Why not just be a bottom, and not sweat it? Why fret over submission if it is confusing?

I am really enjoying the posts, but I wanted to respond to Homburg. This isn't about puzzling over submission. I'm saying, regardless of the dynamic, there will be times that test the relationship, and you either get through it or you don't. I'm just thinking about what it is that gets people through those times.

At any rate, I thought I did trust my husband, but there was a definite moment which caused the trust to erode. I think that's a really important point though. Having that trust helps you get through a crisis.

 

[intothewoods]

I'm not presuming to answer for ITW here, just wanting to throw my own thoughts out there. (She's a big girl; she can answer for herself.)

For some of us (read: me) submission is a hard thing. I have walls upon walls upon walls built around myself and my heart because I have this uncanny ability to turn everything I touch to shit, no matter how hard I try to the contrary. I will crack bad jokes, attempt to derail the conversation, philosophize, act bitchy and indignant, or any combination of the above to keep from having to face my submissive desires. Hell, I even find myself doing it on Lit. Imagine what a pain in the ass it is in my personal relationships.

That being said, I truly need someone to fuss over and worry about and generally make happy. I hesitate at actually saying I need someone to serve, but that may be more my aversion to the connotation the word has amongst us perverts than its lack of fit for me. (Did that even make sense?)

I find myself thinking about submission a lot lately, and it does confuse the hell out of me. I know nobody here will believe it, but my capacity for love and obedience and devotion is more or less limitless. But I keep a close rein on it 99.9% of the time. If I can fool myself into thinking that I'm basically in control of myself, all is ok in my head. It's when I think I might be losing the tenuous grip on myself that things get all fucked up.

I'm a fun bottom to play with. I'm a sub for the right person. But wrestling with it sometimes is scary as hell. *Sigh* I'm rambling, aren't I?

Actually, that's pretty darn telling for me too!

 

[intothewoods]

And one more thing I've been sticking to as a rule for a long lasting relationship: if something annoys you, don't let it go just because is little and your are "oh! so in love". Ask yourself if you will be able to let it go in 2 years, 5 years, 10 years, because if you shut up once (ok twice, the first time you might not notice), you better be ready to shut up forever.

Good luck

Thank you, I think this is something I need to learn. How to speak up for myself, and also learn to let the small stuff go.

In reading the responses again, I see it wasn't just Homburg who I confused. This really isn't about D/s or not, M/s or not, etc. It's more that I am reflecting on my marriage and what went wrong. I violated the bonds of our marriage, and I'm not trying to justify it, just trying to figure out how I got to a place where I needed emotional comfort and support from someone else. I no longer felt I could rely on my husband for that. We had a series of events, a tough couple of years, and we did not emerge stronger.

The truth is, I need a lot from the man I'm living with. Right now, dating Mister Man is very easy. But if we get to a point where we live together? That's a whole other ball game. And if we have kids? Again, that's a whole new level of demands on the couple. He and I talk about this. I just wanted to also post here about those tough times. I just want to be very sure if I walk down the road again that I can stay. Marriage and living together is *not* for everyone, and I'm really thinking through if it is for me.

 

[Netzach]

Couples therapy with a bi and kink and sex work compatible therapist, in my case. We're both disposed to a certain amount of crazy.

It's not something you do because you're about to divorce, it's something you do so that you don't divorce. It's the best expenditure we make every month. A lot of the friction and fight may sometimes *start* but we know how to turn it into a productive thing and not give in to ranting now.

Because most people were raised in ways that fuck up their shot at communicating well with each other - communication is skill and not just talent.

 

[intothewoods]

Yeah, my husband didn't want to do therapy when we were still at a workable point. And my therapist now - who's great - says basically you and yours have to be willing to do the work. That is something very different about my current partner - he is really into communication, and is open to therapy. He was a psych major, actually, so he digs all that shit.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

I was inspired to start this thread after reading Velvet's I bit it off ... thread about a financial issue in an M/s relationship.

Hear that people? I'm an inspiration!

Someone made the comment there, in jest, that M/s sounds just like marriage and, well, in a way, it's true! Not quite, of course. The power dynamic is most often different. But in general, if you are truly going to stick it out in a marriage, there will be a time when you must compromise. For a sub or slave, you defer to your PYL's authority - even when you don't want to.

I agree that M/s is like marriage. I know that Master and I entered our ownership contract with the same level of commitment as if it were a marriage. We are not officially engaged yet but intend to marry when circumstances and finances permit. We're not planning a family at all in the future so that's really not a consideration for us (apart from ensuring that I don't get pregnant of course.)

The contract is binding for us. I know that it's not legally enforceable but I have no provision to leave except in certain, extreme circumstances. 1) Master reserves the right to release me but must give me notice to make personal arrangements and ensure that I have enough money and somewhere to go. 2) If in the distant future things were to deteriorate and I considered that I was being systematically physically and/or psychologically abused. If I had repeatedly communicated my unhappiness and been unheeded, I could leave. 3) If I have sexual relations with another person, in any situation not agreed and sanctioned by Master, he has the right to dismiss me. 4) If he dies, he doesn't own me any more lol.

So I can't just walk out on a whim, nor would I ever choose to.

 

[FurryFury]

I was inspired to start this thread after reading Velvet's I bit it off ... thread about a financial issue in an M/s relationship.

Someone made the comment there, in jest, that M/s sounds just like marriage and, well, in a way, it's true! Not quite, of course. The power dynamic is most often different. But in general, if you are truly going to stick it out in a marriage, there will be a time when you must compromise. For a sub or slave, you defer to your PYL's authority - even when you don't want to. And, although a D or M is the one with the power, I'm sure there is also a similar moment for the D or M when he or she has had to put his or her feelings aside for the greater good of the relationship. No matter what the dynamic or who you are in it - shit hits the fan and you got through it.

I'm presently separated, but when I was married, there were a number of times when I compromised, and tried to then let it go, but then felt a lot of resentment surface later. I don't want to do that again if I get remarried. Whatever dynamic I settle into, I want to be able to get through these times. I suspect an important component is feeling appreciated, valued, or heard. I'm trying to really wrap my head around this, to see if I can really make a go of it with someone, for life.

So. For those of you who are in long term relationships, when and how did you decide that the person you are with was worth this? Or a better way to put it might be, that the person you are with was the right person to defer to when you don't want to, to compromise for, etc.? And if you have made it through a crisis that tested your commitment, I would love to hear about whatever details you are willing to share. Thank you.

I'm not currently in a BDSM relationship. I am in a long term marriage. I decide pretty quickly if this person is important to me, if, I love them. After that it's pretty much a lock from my end of things. For better or worse, I'm there period.

My first marriage it was for worse. (10 years)

This one it's for better. (18 years so far) There are times when I have to take a step back and say, wait, I don't know if I can do X but that's not taking a step back from the relationship that's just finding a limit then testing to figure out how strong a limit it is for me.

I do feel listened to, valued, supported, and trusted most of the time. When I don't I arranged a time to talk and/or fuck so I feel connected again.

When we were first together all of our crisis can from outside our relationship. From my Mom trying to kill herself over and over to my ex threatening to run off with our little girl or take us to court. These things were pretty constant in our lives for well over ten years. Some of it is still ongoing.

Then we had some internal crisis. Our girl started to scare the crap out of us. We had to decide what to do. My husband decided to always tell me the truth and keep telling me the truth until he felt completely heard. A few others things happened which I don't want to go into.

I think it helped that most of our crisis to that point had been such that we had to stand together or be pulled apart.

There were times when I felt alone during all that. I felt my girl, my husband and the therapist had all turned on me and my life was shit. Thankfully those times were few and short lived. I made the right choices. My husband backed me up even though he was fearful of them.

After that we were in a better place than we had been. My husband and I are both extremely loyal types. We don't leave. We don't quit.

 

[serijules]

Ma'am and I are not lovers/partners, but I'm stuck with her for life and vice versa.

I'd known her for years prior to us getting together and she was always a wonderful friend and a great play partner. After two relationships went bad, I decided I just wasn't cut out to "belong" to anyone and intended to just bottom.

Somehow I just ended up becoming hers.

I knew we would be together for a long damn time when I finally realized how long she waited for me. She considered me one of her girls, called me such every time we were together. I wanted to be hers badly but didn't think there was room in her life for me so I never even considered it. I just didn't get it....but she waited. When I finally woke up and realized that the perfect person for me was right there, telling me so, waiting for me to wake up....I just knew it would be my last relationship.

When someone knows you better than you know yourself, and is willing to WAIT for you because they know there is all the time in the world and eventually, what is meant to be will be....well, it takes a hell of a lot to damage that bond once it fuses. It fused for me the night she gave me a garnet necklace in a snowflake bag, showing how much she cared for me and knew me.

We have rocky moments for certain, but underneath them there is always this feeling of "OKAY" because we both know we will be fine in the end.

 

[alexanna]

I'm not currently in a BDSM relationship. I am in a long term marriage. I decide pretty quickly if this person is important to me, if, I love them. After that it's pretty much a lock from my end of things. For better or worse, I'm there period.

My husband and I are both extremely loyal types. We don't leave. We don't quit.

My husband and I are also this way. I pretty much know that no matter what I do he won't leave and he knows the same. Some of this came from our parents, both are still together, and some came from being raised Mormon. I'm not actually making a judgement here about people who do choose to divorce. I would be lying if I didn't say there were times I wished that was an option.

We play BDSM games in the bedroom but they are mostly for me. He enjoys it and I am learning to accept that he will never identify with it in the same way I do.

We have lived through some difficult times; infertility, debt, depression (mine), crisis of faith, kids (4), sexual compatibility problems...but because divorce was just never on the table we have to work it out. There is no "out" which makes disagreements go down a bit differently I think. Both of us are pretty quick to compromise for the other if it looks like something is really important to one of us, him a bit more so in a general day to day living sense. I can be somewhat exhausting to live with and he has made a lot of adjustments over the years to accomodate my idiosyncrasies.

Despite being somewhat eccentric I will, however, do just about anything for the people I care about....seriously. They often do not even have to ask. If I know x is important to my husband I figure out a way to make it happen even if I'm not completely on board. Once I make the decision to be supportive I am. The only time I carry resentment is if I acquiesece to something I disagree with before I've really gotten myself "there" and I can't really describe how I get myself "there". Its usually about my perception of how much they want something and whether or not I feel they understand my reservations. If someone I care about wants something very badly I will generally become very active in helping to make whatever it is happen. I am just as active and inexhaustible when I want something so I generally get what I want as well. Everyone wins.

 

[Homburg]

That being said, I truly need someone to fuss over and worry about and generally make happy.

I'm singling this out to say that nothing here is mutually exclusive from being a bottom. Nor even a Top, Dom, sub, slave, or plain old vanilla. You can fuss over, worry about, and make happy regardless of how you love someone. And I'm not saying this to bark at you about inclusion, I'm saying this to get the point across that service exists in many ways and flavours.

I guess my problem is that anything you agonise over, fret about, and worry over shoul dbe examined very closely for its' worth. If you lose sleep, metaphorically speaking, over submissive feelings, ask yourself why.

I guess what I am saying is that "submissive" is an identity, whereas "submission" is an act, and just like delivering a lett doesn't make you a postman, so does a bit of submission not necessarily mean you are a submissive.

Don't fret so much, BB. You rock.

--------

I am really enjoying the posts, but I wanted to respond to Homburg. This isn't about puzzling over submission. I'm saying, regardless of the dynamic, there will be times that test the relationship, and you either get through it or you don't. I'm just thinking about what it is that gets people through those times.

Okay, that wasn't really clear given the initial post. Thanks.

 

[Netzach]

I'm wired really different, I guess. I always feel like I can choose not to be where I am.

That I do choose this, all the time, constantly, is evidence to me of my loyalty or conviction or insanity depending who you ask.

 

[intothewoods]

Okay, that wasn't really clear given the initial post. Thanks.

I guess I don't rock then. Alas.

 

[intothewoods]

I'm wired really different, I guess. I always feel like I can choose not to be where I am.

That I do choose this, all the time, constantly, is evidence to me of my loyalty or conviction or insanity depending who you ask.

You know what trips me up? The kid. I can't introduce someone to his life and see it break up again. I just can't.

 

[rida]

*snip*

Because most people were raised in ways that fuck up their shot at communicating well with each other - communication is skill and not just talent.

Totally true. Hubby and I love each other, trust each other, and yet sometime we still get hung up on things and end up saying them in the wrong way. Or we hear them through the filter of our own expectations/fears and not hear what is really being said.

*snip*
It's more that I am reflecting on my marriage and what went wrong. I violated the bonds of our marriage, and I'm not trying to justify it, just trying to figure out how I got to a place where I needed emotional comfort and support from someone else. I no longer felt I could rely on my husband for that. We had a series of events, a tough couple of years, and we did not emerge stronger.

During the worst time, I really felt that for all the love I felt and knew he felt, for all the wonderful future I knew we could have together, I just couldn't do it anymore. That I'd rather be alone than have to go through another day of misery. What helped was thinking back of why I married him. What I felt when we met. Why I felt in love. And decide to stick with it one more day, finding the energy to just do what had to be done.

A difference with your case is that, we have always had a sort of open marriage, even thou it was of the "don't ask, don't tell" variety in those days. I didn't go out of my marriage, mostly because I had no time nor energy for it, but I know that Hubby did.

The truth is, I need a lot from the man I'm living with. Right now, dating Mister Man is very easy. But if we get to a point where we live together? That's a whole other ball game. And if we have kids? Again, that's a whole new level of demands on the couple. He and I talk about this. I just wanted to also post here about those tough times. I just want to be very sure if I walk down the road again that I can stay. Marriage and living together is *not* for everyone, and I'm really thinking through if it is for me.

I thought I needed a lot too. And would throw him this long laundry list of thing I needed him to do to make things better, and he too would have his list of my shortcoming (albeit a shorter one). But now, I realize that the reason why we got stuck in the rut in the first place had very little to do with our shortcomings, but mostly with the inability to hear each other needs out with an open mind and heart, without feeling criticized and unappreciated.

Living together is just a series of compromises made with the belief that each one is worth it to be with that person, rather than having it your way all the time but being by yourself.

You know what trips me up? The kid. I can't introduce someone to his life and see it break up again. I just can't.

That adds an extra layer of caution. But I believe that if you are honest with yourself, if your MisterMan is honest too, if you both truly love and cherish each other and wish the best for the other, if you both do your best to make the relationship work, however things end up going, it will not be a negative experience, not even for your kid.

 

[Netzach]

You know what trips me up? The kid. I can't introduce someone to his life and see it break up again. I just can't.

You are right that would be a different consideration, but in all honesty *more* incentive to leave a situation that was souring, not less.

I guess this is why my mom didn't date much. I only remember two boyfriends and then a stepdad. Neither of the boyfriends did I like or not, they were kind of like, really white bread and semi-annoying.

I kind of wish she had divorced my depressive stepfather, maybe he would not have drank himself to death quietly in the next room. Maybe she enabled that in a way that he'd have to fix on his own if she'd left. Maybe not, it's not her fault. I liked him, but man were their dynamics fucked. And I see myself replicating them at times.

What I learned - staying just to say you stayed is overrated. I mean I don't think a boyfriend every week is a good environment, but I think that children are much kinder to their parents backing out of bad situations than staying in 'em.

 

[intothewoods]

You are right that would be a different consideration, but in all honesty *more* incentive to leave a situation that was souring, not less.

I guess this is why my mom didn't date much. I only remember two boyfriends and then a stepdad. Neither of the boyfriends did I like or not, they were kind of like, really white bread and semi-annoying.

I kind of wish she had divorced my depressive stepfather, maybe he would not have drank himself to death quietly in the next room. Maybe she enabled that in a way that he'd have to fix on his own if she'd left. Maybe not, it's not her fault. I liked him, but man were their dynamics fucked. And I see myself replicating them at times.

What I learned - staying just to say you stayed is overrated. I mean I don't think a boyfriend every week is a good environment, but I think that children are much kinder to their parents backing out of bad situations than staying in 'em.

Oh hell yes. I'm not a stay for the kids above all else kinda person. But I could, say, not marry Mister Man, and just be with him in our two separate houses.

We'll see - it's been a little under 6 months of dating, and so far so good. We are starting to think about when and how to introduce him to my kid. But I want us to just be for a while. One thing that makes me relax about this, especially in reading your post, is that the two of us have a really good dynamic, one that will be healthy for my kid. We do things as a team - we really mesh so well in that way. And he's very conscientious about respecting my kid's dad. I think he feels sympathy for him, and for us as couple, in a weird way.

 

[intothewoods]

I thought I needed a lot too. And would throw him this long laundry list of thing I needed him to do to make things better, and he too would have his list of my shortcoming (albeit a shorter one). But now, I realize that the reason why we got stuck in the rut in the first place had very little to do with our shortcomings, but mostly with the inability to hear each other needs out with an open mind and heart, without feeling criticized and unappreciated.

Yeah, my therapist says this is really key. People want to feel heard. Even if you're not getting a damn thing you want, and life sucks at the moment, and blah blah blah, as long as you feel heard and appreciated, it makes the world of difference.

That adds an extra layer of caution. But I believe that if you are honest with yourself, if your MisterMan is honest too, if you both truly love and cherish each other and wish the best for the other, if you both do your best to make the relationship work, however things end up going, it will not be a negative experience, not even for your kid.

That's lovely, and I do feel we are well-equipped for this. The unknown scares me, but I need to remember that we will always have our communication, which is pretty damn frighteningly good.