BDSM, is it Cultural?

[YourCaptor]

Germanic meaning German, English, and Scandinavian language speaking cultures

If you pick other, why?

Edit:

This thread was started as a general, BDSM anthropology sort of thing, just to get discussion started with that direction in mind. If its cultural and BDSM, go for it.

The poll is only connected to the title in that it can be categorized under it.

To clarify, in the poll I’m not talking about cultural boundaries as we know them now, as in borders and such things. I was shooting for a more generalized idea of culture, ignore nationality, think cultural geography. Yes things tend to get murky that way, but that’s ok.

If you would like you can go super general, simply reword the question as, “BDSM, more prevalent in European cultures?”

But I didn’t word it that way because that forces so many separate groups together its just silly.

And by BDSM I mean the act of consciously performing BDSM, just in case it comes up.

I have no tolerance for racism of any kind, if I see even a hint of it this thing is shut down.

 

[twysted73]

"other" because the other choices weren't quite right.

India has D/s. Not so hot in the middle east since it's generally referred to as "common public sentancing" anyway.

Not sure. I'm not even sure it's recreational use for pleasure is a caucasian invention. I would think it is due to it's popularity almost exclusively amongst caucasian populations.
See I'm having a difficult time explaining this one.
Anyone else?

 

[Netzach]

Yes, cultural.

It's kind of like homosexuality - everyone *does* it, but the how and why and framework is different, and different enough that it can even become something totally unintelligible when you put a western contemporary post gay liberation lens over something that isn't informed that way.

Prevalent in Germanic cultures, I don't know. I don't consider this culture Germanic, though my husband sure is, work ethic, masochism and all. I know there is a growing FemDom scene in Latin cultures and thriving interest in FemDom in Asia, particularly in Japan - something that goes against the cultural mores there and everywhere else.

 

[DeservingBitch]

Yes, cultural.

Like Netzach say, not that it doesn't exist in most cultures or societies, but the *concept* of BDSM as a sexual category doesn't exist everywhere. Like homosexuality or masturbation or a lot of other stuff.

I would argue that it is a western invention, in that BDSM (and homosexuality) were 'invented' as political categories of sexuality by the western psychyatric-medical system, both as 'pathologies'. They have later been re-appropriated by the gay and BDSM communities as markers of socio-political identities and sites of activism organization.

 

[rosco rathbone]

I'll agree that it's cultural as long as we keep in mind that people didn't just somehow start doing BDSM (or "BDSM") after the publication of Psychopathia Sexualis or Discipline And Punish.

 

[DeservingBitch]

I'll agree that it's cultural as long as we keep in mind that people didn't just somehow start doing BDSM (or "BDSM") after the publication of Psychopathia Sexualis or Discipline And Punish.

Of course. To say that BDSM and homosexuality were 'invented' as categories (or concepts) of sexuality in the west doesn't mean that what we since understand as the behavior or identities associated with those concepts didn't exist before or doesn't exist in other societies without such socio-political categories.

 

[Rosie_Riveter]

Yes, cultural.

Like Netzach say, not that it doesn't exist in most cultures or societies, but the *concept* of BDSM as a sexual category doesn't exist everywhere. Like homosexuality or masturbation or a lot of other stuff.

I would argue that it is a western invention, in that BDSM (and homosexuality) were 'invented' as political categories of sexuality by the western psychyatric-medical system, both as 'pathologies'. They have later been re-appropriated by the gay and BDSM communities as markers of socio-political identities and sites of activism organization.

Okay, now this is interesting. I can see homosexuality and BDSM as socially constructed categories....but masturbation?

Presumably people everywhere arouse themselves by themselves.....or am I just projecting? It's thought of differently in some cultures?

 

[00Syd]

Who knows? All sorts of sexual preferences and fetishes and what have you pop up in the most surprising places. I really have no idea but if I was going to take a blind stab at it, I'd probably say that BDSM and related things are present in other cultures and countries but that BDSM for western countries has been defined and put into a box that we call "BDSM." Not sure who it was created by, maybe Psychiatrists as was suggested before me, or maybe we ourselves created it. I'm pretty sure that all the trappings that go along with BDSM like fashion and music were created by us and are almost purely Western. But now that the world is more globalized and interconnected, it could spread damn fast.

 

[DeservingBitch]

Okay, now this is interesting. I can see homosexuality and BDSM as socially constructed categories....but masturbation?

Presumably people everywhere arouse themselves by themselves.....or am I just projecting? It's thought of differently in some cultures?

Again, to say that they are socially constructed categories doesn't mean that the behavior associated with the category doesn't exist prior to their 'invention' of doesn't happen in society where the category doesn't exist.

Female masturbation was for a long time a non-existing concept, was at some point 'invented' in the west by the psychyatric-medical establishment as a pathology, and has been understood at different point in time as both/either the sign of hysteria (an exclusively female pathology) and a treatment for hysteria.

But all this shouldn't be taken as to mean that women haven't always been masturbating.

Think about rain. Rain as a phenomenon existed before it was 'invented' as a scientific concept. But it didn't have the meaning it has now for us until it was 'invented' as a scientific concept. Our current scientific concept and understanding of rain would have been completely unintelligible for a society that understood or conceptualized rain as an act of god for instance.

Same for BDSM and homosexuality or masturbation. They all exist. But they don't 'exist' everywhere as the intelligible categories they are in our current western societies. And they didn't 'exist' in western societies as the intelligible categories they are in our current western societies prior to their 'invention' as psychiatric-medical and later on socio-political categories.

 

[Rosie_Riveter]

Again, to say that they are socially constructed categories doesn't mean that the behavior associated with the category doesn't exist prior to their 'invention' of doesn't happen in society where the category doesn't exist.

Female masturbation was for a long time a non-existing concept, was at some point 'invented' in the west by the psychyatric-medical establishment as a pathology, and has been understood at different point in time as both/either the sign of hysteria (an exclusively female pathology) and a treatment for hysteria.

But all this shouldn't be taken as to mean that women haven't always been masturbating.

Think about rain. Rain as a phenomenon existed before it was 'invented' as a scientific concept. But it didn't have the meaning it has now for us until it was 'invented' as a scientific concept. Our current scientific concept and understanding of rain would have been completely unintelligible for a society that understood or conceptualized rain as an act of god for instance.

Same for BDSM and homosexuality or masturbation. They all exist. But they don't 'exist' everywhere as the intelligible categories they are in our current western societies. And they didn't 'exist' in western societies as the intelligible categories they are in our current western societies prior to their 'invention' as psychiatric-medical and later on socio-political categories.

Ah, the rain clarifies all.

And I do get the distinction between behavior and the conceptual categories/systems of meaning. But it's awfully hard to haul yourself out of your own system of meaning.

 

[Homburg]

Yep, white people, and the Japanese, do all the craziest shit. How many serial killers out there aren't white? C'mon, seriously. Germanic cultures produce some seriously messed up shit.

Then again, I'm mixed Japanese and Caucasian. I get all the freak in one spot.




And if you take this post too seriously, oh, the mockery you will receive.

 

[rosco rathbone]

It's the Jews who are the perviest. So say I.

Apparently, the threadstarter just meant "is there more bdsm activity among the northern tribes", although the cultural discussion is more interesting.

What would it even mean to say that "BDSM" wasn't cultural?

 

[DeservingBitch]

Ah, the rain clarifies all.

And I do get the distinction between behavior and the conceptual categories/systems of meaning. But it's awfully hard to haul yourself out of your own system of meaning.

Exactly.

The rain example is what I use in class to illustrate or clarify the idea of reality as socially constructed.

 

[mirrors2]

I think I'm going to ditch the General Board in favor of the BDSM Talk board for a while, now.

And studying the nuances of semiotic mapping - I can dig that.

 

[DeservingBitch]

I think I'm going to ditch the General Board in favor of the BDSM Talk board for a while, now.

Does it mean you're going to let go of the cock shot av while you're in this 'hood?

 

[Rosie_Riveter]

I think I'm going to ditch the General Board in favor of the BDSM Talk board for a while, now.

And studying the nuances of semiotic mapping - I can dig that.

The conversation is defintely better here. Not quite as much medical discussion though.

 

[mirrors2]

The conversation is defintely better here. Not quite as much medical discussion though.

Too goddamn cold out for me to consider playing 'doctor,' anyhow.

 

[mirrors2]

To avoid derailing the thread too much, I'll give the rather trivial explanation of my vote for "other":

While I think a strong argument could be made for the more general notion of cultural specificity and language-based partitions on sets of concepts, I don't really feel I can comment on German culture specifically. Unless I worked out some sort of exceptionally witty "verb comes at the end" comment.

 

[mirrors2]

Does it mean you're going to let go of the cock shot av while you're in this 'hood?

Naah - just means I'll make up some bullshit about the chain being some sort of claim to BDSM legitimacy.



I could shift over to a "turtleneck + frowny expression" AV, but that'd be just as bad.

 

[00Syd]

It's the Jews who are the perviest. So say I.

Hahaha pervy Jews, what a great mental image

 

[Homburg]

Hahaha pervy Jews, what a great mental image

There are some brilliantly pervy Jews in our little online community here.

 

[BiBunny]

Actually, I think if you really look at the locations of most of the regular posters here, you'd probably say that folks are the perviest south of the Mason-Dixon line.

 

[Homburg]

Actually, I think if you really look at the locations of most of the regular posters here, you'd probably say that folks are the perviest south of the Mason-Dixon line.

Nah, we're just frustrated by the lack of good times down here, and turning to the internet to better express our inner pervy grit selves. Em Yankees have all the fun stuff up north.

 

[@}-}rebecca----]

To avoid derailing the thread too much, I'll give the rather trivial explanation of my vote for "other":

While I think a strong argument could be made for the more general notion of cultural specificity and language-based partitions on sets of concepts, I don't really feel I can comment on German culture specifically. Unless I worked out some sort of exceptionally witty "verb comes at the end" comment.

schadenfreude \SHOD-n-froy-duh\, noun:

A malicious satisfaction obtained from the misfortunes of others.

but not quite, I'll get there.

 

[00Syd]

There are some brilliantly pervy Jews in our little online community here.

Ha, like myself? I'm just imaging a Woody Allen type of a scene and trying my best not to fall on the floor laughing

Or Hasidic Jews!

(hehehehehehhehehehe)