What's good for the goose is good for the gander

[dolf]

yep.
You do speak your mind much more intelligently than he does I must say.

i don't doubt lt's intelligence but i think sometimes passion or personal experience clouds his judgement.

 

[~Avalon~]

i said this in his gender experiment thread...
it amazes me that someone who is so quick to point out racial issues, is also so quick to make so many generalized statements about women.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

where did i attack anyone, lt?

i don't try to pretend that men's lives are a tea party...i don't get why you imply that about women's.

I didn't say you attacked anyone.

But the truth remains, women can say "all men are pigs" if they want and no one cares.

Sympathy exists only for women, not men. That's another advantage society gives you.

 

[~Avalon~]

I didn't say you attacked anyone.

But the truth remains, women can say "all men are pigs" if they want and no one cares.

Sympathy exists only for women, not men. That's another advantage society gives you.

these huge advantages for women are stacking up

 

[dolf]

I didn't say you attacked anyone.

But the truth remains, women can say "all men are pigs" if they want and no one cares.

Sympathy exists only for women, not men. That's another advantage society gives you.

i hear men say all women are whore far more often.

and the women who say that will, in my experience, be corrected.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

these huge advantages for women are stacking up

Look, this is not about whether all women are this or that, because they aren't this or that.

This is about how society treats women as compared to men.

I'm generalizing the way our civilization behaves, not you.

 

[~Avalon~]

Look, this is not about whether all women are this or that, because they aren't this or that.

This is about how society treats women as compared to men.

I'm generalizing the way our civilization behaves, not you.

your vision is clouded

and you really are generalizing, you seem to have this idea that life for women is a walk in the park while the poor men in the world have it so tough.
i won't pretend to know what it's like for a man, and you shouldn't pretend to know what it's like for a woman.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

i hear men say all women are whore far more often.

and the women who say that will, in my experience, be corrected.

But you can walk into a bookstore and spit in any direction and find some incarnation of that same whine.

How many people jumped on Andrea Dworkin and her "all sex is rape"?

How many books do you know of that read "Are women necessary?"

 

[dolf]

Look, this is not about whether all women are this or that, because they aren't this or that.

This is about how society treats women as compared to men.

I'm generalizing the way our civilization behaves, not you.

society treats women...

there's a 6% conviction rate for rape.
beat a man up and the jury will find you guilty.
beat a woman up and the jury wll find you guilty.
beat AND rape a woman and the jury will assume you either asked for it, dressed like a whore, led him on or agreed to it but changed your mind.

statistically, in the uk at least, women get harsher punishments for the same crimes.

women earn less, shoulder more work at home...

 

[Le Jacquelope]

your vision is clouded

and you really are generalizing, you seem to have this idea that life for women is a walk in the park while the poor men in the world have it so tough.
i won't pretend to know what it's like for a man, and you shouldn't pretend to know what it's like for a woman.

Agreed.

But my point is why can't they all be treated EQUALLY?

Why does society have more sympathy for women's complaints than men's?

Why do we have people still coddling DOLL PARTS after 100,000,000,000,000 of her superwhiny posts, but phew, I come out for an occasional (relative to her) vent about equal rights and it's jihad city from the very first post...

 

[dolf]

But you can walk into a bookstore and spit in any direction and find some incarnation of that same whine.

How many people jumped on Andrea Dworkin and her "all sex is rape"?

How many books do you know of that read "Are women necessary?"

and i've also seen books on american shelves that are anti islam.
that some idiot publishes a book means nothing.
and f you ask the ordinary woman on the street if all sex is rape...well...make a thread with that title! actually, i'll make it.

 

[~Avalon~]

society treats women...

there's a 6% conviction rate for rape.
beat a man up and the jury will find you guilty.
beat a woman up and the jury wll find you guilty.
beat AND rape a woman and the jury will assume you either asked for it, dressed like a whore, led him on or agreed to it but changed your mind.

statistically, in the uk at least, women get harsher punishments for the same crimes.

women earn less, shoulder more work at home...

of the married women that i associate with, a conservative guess is 90% of them do 100% of the work in the home.
they are responsible for everything to do with child rearing
all house work
grocery shopping
cooking
paying the bills

domestic violence has only recently become a concern with law enforcement. up until a few years ago, police would still ask a woman if she wanted to press charges against her husband.

 

[~Avalon~]

Agreed.

But my point is why can't they all be treated EQUALLY?

Why does society have more sympathy for women's complaints than men's?

Why do we have people still coddling DOLL PARTS after 100,000,000,000,000 of her superwhiny posts, but phew, I come out for an occasional (relative to her) vent about equal rights and it's jihad city from the very first post...

doll is ONE person... one mentally ill person at that.
as far as i know, you aren't mentally ill.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

society treats women...

there's a 6% conviction rate for rape.
beat a man up and the jury will find you guilty.
beat a woman up and the jury wll find you guilty.
beat AND rape a woman and the jury will assume you either asked for it, dressed like a whore, led him on or agreed to it but changed your mind.

statistically, in the uk at least, women get harsher punishments for the same crimes.

women earn less, shoulder more work at home...

In the States, things are a lot different. Women get easier punishments for the same crimes here, according to department of justice studies. We're dealing with an epidemic of mothers massacring whole families of kids - 5 of her kids at a time - and they get off on insanity.

I guess it depends on the country we're talking about. If this were a predominantly Middle Eastern culture, I'd be telling guys to STFU and stop beating their wives (and probably would be right on 90% of them).

Hell, in the West, they're only now just starting to talk about boys experience with child molestation.

Also in the States there are a lot of professions now where women earn more than men. I posted them once, a while back. Here's the linkage:
http://money.cnn.com/2006/02/28/commentary/everyday/sahadi/index.htm

Things are also changing elsewhere in America about women and wages:
http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN0334472920070803

 

[dolf]

of the married women that i associate with, a conservative guess is 90% of them do 100% of the work in the home.
they are responsible for everything to do with child rearing
all house work
grocery shopping
cooking
paying the bills

domestic violence has only recently become a concern with law enforcement. up until a few years ago, police would still ask a woman if she wanted to press charges against her husband.

here marital rapewas only made a crime in 1991.
until then, you were fair game until the divorce came through.

scary.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

doll is ONE person... one mentally ill person at that.
as far as i know, you aren't mentally ill.

Shit I'm glad you see she's mentally ill. It drives me batty that she keeps getting all this advice from sympathetic people on here.

On the other hand one "nice guys finish last" post will bring these same people coming with sabers and torches and pitchforks.

I ought to create a female alt and post some shit about how men treat her wrong and nice girls can't get a break and so on and show you how sympathetic people are to her about it, as compared to her male counterpart. Would that properly illustrate my point in a non insulting way?

 

[dolf]

In the States, things are a lot different. Women get easier punishments for the same crimes here, according to department of justice studies. We're dealing with an epidemic of mothers massacring whole families of kids - 5 of her kids at a time - and they get off on insanity.

in cases of post partum depression, or in cases where there's a clear history of mental illness, then that's not unfair.

there was, just last week, a uk guy who got off on insanity...he threw his two young kids from a window before leaping after them. one died. he wasn't female but he was clearly insane at the time.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

here marital rapewas only made a crime in 1991.
until then, you were fair game until the divorce came through.

scary.

Laws and societal opinions about women have changed for the positive over the years. Can you at least agree on that?

Men on the other hand are still stuck in a 1950s situation - we're still expected to pose like John Wayne.

 

[~Avalon~]

here marital rapewas only made a crime in 1991.
until then, you were fair game until the divorce came through.

scary.

it hasn't been that long since wives were the property of their husband.

yanno, i'm not some radical feminist. the thought of being considered the same makes me nauseaus. as women we definitely have a few advantages, but, i'm not sure how anyone can conclude that their is an advantage in any society in being female.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

in cases of post partum depression, or in cases where there's a clear history of mental illness, then that's not unfair.

there was, just last week, a uk guy who got off on insanity...he threw his two young kids from a window before leaping after them. one died. he wasn't female but he was clearly insane at the time.

Shit, he wouldn't get away with that in America.

We have 2 fools like that coming up right now as we speak - one dude threw a kid onto a highway in Hawaii and another one threw a bunch off a bridge. I bet they'll claim insanity and swing from a tall tree.

Yes, the UK is somewhat different from the US. Your perspective can't really be questioned, much less countered, because you're in a different culture.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

it hasn't been that long since wives were the property of their husband.

yanno, i'm not some radical feminist. the thought of being considered the same makes me nauseaus. as women we definitely have a few advantages, but, i'm not sure how anyone can conclude that their is an advantage in any society in being female.

That's in the past. Things have improved for women's rights in the West. If dolf is right, moreso in America.

Property? Hell, you're not anyone's property now. But men are the property of the US military to be culled and harvested whenever Uncle Sam sees fit.

 

[~Avalon~]

Shit I'm glad you see she's mentally ill. It drives me batty that she keeps getting all this advice from sympathetic people on here.

On the other hand one "nice guys finish last" post will bring these same people coming with sabers and torches and pitchforks.

I ought to create a female alt and post some shit about how men treat her wrong and nice girls can't get a break and so on and show you how sympathetic people are to her about it, as compared to her male counterpart. Would that properly illustrate my point in a non insulting way?

i don't know that anyone doubts that doll is mentally ill, including herself.

you're talking about one instance, one situation.
the guy's thread about nice guys finishing last... well, it's an age old thing. i have no doubt that men get sick of girls fawning over apparent assholes. if some girl posted a thread that said "nice girls finish last" the first question out of someone's mouth would be "are you fat?"

 

[dolf]

Laws and societal opinions about women have changed for the positive over the years. Can you at least agree on that?

Men on the other hand are still stuck in a 1950s situation - we're still expected to pose like John Wayne.

laws change first. attitudes take longer.
recently an mp here said that he would like date rape to be treated more lightly, as a "misunderstanding"...the implication that if you agreed to date him then you gave up the rght to withdraw consent.

polls on public opinion show a frightening number of people {male and female} agree.

yes, things are changing.
a young woman is as likely to give up her seat to and elderly man as a young man is to an elderly woman.
equality laws swing both ways and men have used then where they've felt discrimination.

but look at sports...
the top paid athletes? the best known athletes? the ones who get played on prime time tv?

women aren't taking over the world.

 

[~Avalon~]

That's in the past. Things have improved for women's rights in the West. If dolf is right, moreso in America.

Property? Hell, you're not anyone's property now. But men are the property of the US military to be culled and harvested whenever Uncle Sam sees fit.

of course things have improved for women's rights, things have improved for human rights in general.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

i don't know that anyone doubts that doll is mentally ill, including herself.

you're talking about one instance, one situation.
the guy's thread about nice guys finishing last... well, it's an age old thing. i have no doubt that men get sick of girls fawning over apparent assholes. if some girl posted a thread that said "nice girls finish last" the first question out of someone's mouth would be "are you fat?"

Yeah and the jackass who says "are you fat?" would get his ass handed to him in a takeout bag.

You know me, I'm practically a first responder to a jackhole like that.