The Race/Gender Vote

[Jenny_Jackson]

I've been waiting for a year for this to surface. Unfortunately it finally has. As I read it, it all started with Bill Clinton's remark that Obama has been untruthful about his voting record, ending with words like, "This is just a fairy tale." The Obama camp took this and twisted it and edited everything but the final words to make it appear a racist remark.

Hilary did a rather good job of defending on "Meet the Press" Sunday morning, even under a barage of obviously pro-Obama questions from Tim Russart. So much for fair and balanced.

I've noticed that MSNBC has been leaning towards Obama lately. At 9:30 PM (my time) the night before the election was held MSNBC declared Obama the winner of the New Hampshire primary, then spent two days trying to blame the polls for their error. The vote was totally impressive. Hilary - 4, Obama- 16, with one precinct reporting. The following morning the pro-Obama politicing went on, with MSNBC certain Obama was going to win.

The following day, Keith Olbermann asked a Pollster what happened. The answer was, "We stopped polling too early." Yeah, the night before the election.

Interestingly, Obama thinks it is alright to be admittedly working hard on the "Afro-American" vote. Obviously that's not racist since the well-known, God and bigot, Al Sharpton, says it's okay.

Now Hilary has asked for a truce. Will Obama stop? It seems so for the time being, but I'll wait and see. I'm pretty sure it will blow up again. It's all Obama has to win the nomination - but it will lose him the General Election.

 

[DesertPirate]

If those two aren't careful they will cancel each other out and give it to a worthless clown like Edwards, now I'm nauseous.
This whole election is setting new records for viciousness and stupidity.
Just to go with the asinine length of this campaign.

Come November everyone will be so burned out we will have a 30% voter turnout, if that isn't disgusting nothing is!

 

[Stella_Omega]

We could have our first non-male plus non-white presidential team in our history.

Or, we could have another four years of All-American non-cooperative bullshit.

 

[rgraham666]

The central ethic in America is, "Winners rule. Losers drool." Those who have or seek power have a deep and abiding faith in this belief.

Is it true? Is it good? Does this hurt our cause? Does this hurt our country? These are not questions that the people in charge or who wish to be in charge can deal with.

'Are we winning?' is the only important question.

So why should such behaviour surprise us?

 

[sr71plt]

Is that Gore I hear clearing his voice (and shifting his awards in his arms) in the wings?

 

[rgraham666]

Doubtful.

Gore knows if he runs for and wins the Dem nomination the chances of his living to see the Oval Office are even worse than Clinton's or Obama's.

 

[sr71plt]

Doubtful.

Gore knows if he runs for and wins the Dem nomination the chances of his living to see the Oval Office are even worse than Clinton's or Obama's.

Anybody can be assassinated at the drop of a hat, if that's what you mean. I don't think that's a factor in who runs the race--or a factor in people deciding who to vote for either. It certainly wouldn't deter a Gore (they are connected to the Kennedy legacy).

I'm not pushing Gore either, but if the others tear each other apart on lines that make it very hard to reform in time to contest the election (which isn't likely on this particular issue--both sides have already drawn back on this), he's a more likely possibility for the Democrats to turn to than most anyone else. Maybe turn back to Richardson, but he's more of a VP candidate than presidential. After all, Gore's already won the presidential vote once--he just didn't get into the office.

 

[cantdog]

I've been waiting for a year for this to surface. Unfortunately it finally has. As I read it, it all started with Bill Clinton's remark that Obama has been untruthful about his voting record, ending with words like, "This is just a fairy tale." The Obama camp took this and twisted it and edited everything but the final words to make it appear a racist remark.

Hilary did a rather good job of defending on "Meet the Press" Sunday morning, even under a barrage of obviously pro-Obama questions from Tim Russart. So much for fair and balanced.

To begin with, Jenny, the press does a service by asking the unpleasant questions. Those are the ones that the interviewee requires, the sooner the better, to address. If they don't get asked those questions, they fester and spread in the rumor circuit.

The press does the public a service by the same thing, because we don't get to ask these people very much, and if the reporter pisses away his opportunity by gushing encouraging words and asking soft pink fluffy ones, She or he is bobbling the job.

In this case, something dead slimy had been done. Was it intentional? It's only by the manner in which she fields the question that we will know.

I've noticed that MSNBC has been leaning towards Obama lately. At 9:30 PM (my time) the night before the election was held MSNBC declared Obama the winner of the New Hampshire primary, then spent two days trying to blame the polls for their error. The vote was totally impressive. Hilary - 4, Obama- 16, with one precinct reporting. The following morning the pro-Obama politicking went on, with MSNBC certain Obama was going to win.

The following day, Keith Olbermann asked a Pollster what happened. The answer was, "We stopped polling too early." Yeah, the night before the election.

Interestingly, Obama thinks it is all right to be working hard on the "Afro-American" vote. Obviously that's not racist since the well-known God and bigot, Al Sharpton, says it's okay.

Now Hilary has asked for a truce. Will Obama stop? It seems so for the time being, but I'll wait and see. I'm pretty sure it will blow up again. It's all Obama has to win the nomination - but it will lose him the General Election.

Will the slime stop? Hillary sloughed the criticism off rather well, but it was still a slimy attack.

point two: Why on earth shouldn't any candidate whatsoever pursue the Black vote? Would you prefer that no one pay Blacks any attention whatever? Christ, Bush courted the Black vote, and the Hispanic vote, too. Even in Maine, where we have all of seven families of Hispanic extraction, there were Bush bumper stickers in Spanish. I don't imagine fishing for Black votes is any more reprehensible than fishing for any other kind of votes, so long as identifiable Black issues or political groups exist.

 

[cantdog]

double post

 

[sr71plt]

Bush did, indeed, court the Hispanic vote--and it made a huge difference. These are votes that normally would go to Democrats according to studies of Hispanic voting interests (which don't always pan out to how someone actually votes). But the Democrats haven't gone after this segment in the last two national elections, and Bush did (and got most of these votes). And the Hispanic slice of the voting pie is leaping up there with each passing election.

 

[cloudy]

To begin with, Jenny, the press does a service by asking the unpleasant questions. Those are the ones that the interviewee requires, the sooner the better, to address. If they don't get asked those questions, they fester and spread in the rumor circuit.

The press does the public a service by the same thing, because we don't get to ask these people very much, and if the reporter pisses away his opportunity by gushing encouraging words and asking soft pink fluffy ones, She or he is bobbling the job.

In this case, something dead slimy had been done. Was it intentional? It's only by the manner in which she fields the question that we will know.

Will the slime stop? Hillary sloughed the criticism off rather well, but it was still a slimy attack.

point two: Why on earth shouldn't any candidate whatsoever pursue the Black vote? Would you prefer that no one pay Blacks any attention whatever? Christ, Bush courted the Black vote, and the Hispanic vote, too. Even in Maine, where we have all of seven families of Hispanic extraction, there were Bush bumper stickers in Spanish. I don't imagine fishing for Black votes is any more reprehensible than fishing for any other kind of votes, so long as identifiable Black issues or political groups exist.

Exactly. Thank you.

 

[cantdog]

De nada, querida.

I wish the bumper stickers had said "BUSH le encanta mamar la verga," but it was something about "mi Presidente tambien," or some such rot.

 

[cloudy]

De nada, querida.

I wish the bumper stickers had said "BUSH le encanta mamar la verga," but it was something about "mi Presidente tambien," or some such rot.

I wish the candidates would pay a little more attention to the issues of the First Nations, but we don't count, apparently.

(Yo siempre aprecio su opinión, cant. Tu siempre hablas la verdad.)

 

[cantdog]

I wish the candidates would pay a little more attention to the issues of the First Nations, but we don't count, apparently.

(Yo siempre aprecio su opinión, cant. Tu siempre hablas la verdad.)

It's easy to be honest online, girl; nobody can reach you with a pool cue.

But thanks.

You know how much I admire you.

 

[DesertPirate]

Bush did, indeed, court the Hispanic vote--and it made a huge difference. These are votes that normally would go to Democrats according to studies of Hispanic voting interests (which don't always pan out to how someone actually votes). But the Democrats haven't gone after this segment in the last two national elections, and Bush did (and got most of these votes). And the Hispanic slice of the voting pie is leaping up there with each passing election.

Don't forget that the hispanic population is actually quite conservative. Over 80% are Catholic which makes them pro-life and pro-man/woman marriage. They actually fit the Republicans better and Bush reminded them of that. Add the push from the Bishops about paying attention to the moral stance of politicians...
Add the Southern Baptists and the reason why the Dem. candidate did not win a single Southern state in the last 2 Presidential races is clearer. With no Southern state wins, a cadidate would have to win 83% of what is left. Uphill and then some!

 

[cantdog]

That was entirely the fault of the Liberals. They said, "Anyone but Bush," so the candidate never had to lift a finger to espouse any centrist or left issue whatsoever. He spent all his time fishing for conservative votes, since the Liberals had already pledged themselves to him. The Libs even went around bashing Naderites and Greens. They allowed him to choose a Republican running mate. The campaign refused to discuss torture, even. Bush was vulnerable on so many fronts, but the campaign ignored them all, to court the base of the opposing party.

Whereas, a Republican will, and did, vote Libertarian, or Nader, before they would ever vote for any Democrat, no matter what the Democrat said.

So the appeal to the Right was fruitless, and hundreds of opportunities were let slip. The Liberals did this to themselves.

 

[sr71plt]

Don't forget that the hispanic population is actually quite conservative. Over 80% are Catholic which makes them pro-life and pro-man/woman marriage. They actually fit the Republicans better and Bush reminded them of that. Add the push from the Bishops about paying attention to the moral stance of politicians...
Add the Southern Baptists and the reason why the Dem. candidate did not win a single Southern state in the last 2 Presidential races is clearer. With no Southern state wins, a cadidate would have to win 83% of what is left. Uphill and then some!

Yes, they vote quite conservative--although that often doesn't match their self-interest. The first generation Hispanics have been found to vote somewhat timidly as they would in their somewhat repressive origin country--and they favor whatever incumbent is running, no matter what positions he/she takes (which can sometimes appear a little weird). When they are polled on their interests, though, other than abortion and pro-marriage, they come down strongly in favor of Democratic issues. With the second generation, the conservative values start to fall apart. Over the past five years, I've worked with an academic press book-production project waving its arms at the Democrats and trying to point out that not only is the Hispanic vote taking over--soon to push the black population aside as a cohesive voting force and a danger to white voting too, if the Hispanics actually will go to the polls, which a lot of whites don't--but that the vote is "getable" too, if the Democrats will only give it a try.

(Sorry, the Native American vote is minute and doesn't scope in campaign strategy except locally.)

 

[DesertPirate]

Yes, they vote quite conservative--although that often doesn't match their self-interest. The first generation Hispanics have been found to vote somewhat timidly as they would in their somewhat repressive origin country--and they favor whatever incumbent is running, no matter what positions he/she takes (which can sometimes appear a little weird). When they are polled on their interests, though, other than abortion and pro-marriage, they come down strongly in favor of Democratic issues. With the second generation, the conservative values start to fall apart. Over the past five years, I've worked with an academic press book-production project waving its arms at the Democrats and trying to point out that not only is the Hispanic vote taking over--soon to push the black population aside as a cohesive voting force and a danger to white voting too, if the Hispanics actually will go to the polls, which a lot of whites don't--but that the vote is "getable" too, if the Democrats will only give it a try.

(Sorry, the Native American vote is minute and doesn't scope in campaign strategy except locally.)

Grew up in Southern NM, I was a minority in most schools, being white. Strange state, the most conservative Democrats anywhere. Dems outnumber Reps 2.5 to 1 and yet there has been at least 1 Rep Senator since 72 and the Governors office alternates every 8 years. Drives outsiders nuts, school trained polysci types look foolish with any prognostication. A local that never finished high school has a better shot at predicting.