Underage incest fantasys

[3113]

Make them call you 'Patriarch'... but personally, I don't think it works as Daddy or Papi.

Don't give her ideas. She'll run with them

 

[Pure]

note to stella

stella(As a side note, as a top I tend to call my bottoms "little girl" or "boy" and I get called "daddy" more often than not. Wierdly (now that I think of it), the inference of incest has never come up. It's a job description, or something...

nothing incestuous there, no, no, non.

Mine is in imagining myself, or anyone I'm boinking, to be twelve years old. I just won't do it. *shrug* You can if you wish, Pure, and so can Riff-Raff, and Ami

it's good to run into people like yourself, even the fantasies of whom are of superior moral calibre.!

---
just read your petey, yuri story.... excellent! (by the way, though, what's the turn-on of the torn and bleeding anus?)

 

[Stella_Omega]

it's good to run into people like yourself, even the fantasies of whom are of superior moral calibre.!

---
just read your petey, yuri story.... excellent! (by the way, though, what's the turn-on of the torn and bleeding anus?)

Whoops, I didn't mean to sound holier-than-thou.
What I'm meant to say is that I know where my limit is. And I know that yours might be in a different place.

(the blood running was a turn-on, but not the source. She was relieved to see that it was a very small cut. This is fact, based on real-life experience. Also, both parties are adult. Yuri was very clear and specific about what he wanted. Cuts and tears happen in those circumstances. )

Originally Posted by elsol View Post
Make them call you 'Patriarch'... but personally, I don't think it works as Daddy or Papi.

It has to be something they can say in a hurry, like when they're panting hard...

 

[Boxlicker101]

Eh well, let it be a double standard. There's a big difference between an adult who can take part in a real whipping if they so desire, or instigate a "real" rape for themselves. We all have our limits. Mine is in imagining myself, or anyone I'm boinking, to be twelve years old. I just won't do it. *shrug* You can if you wish, Pure, and so can Riff-Raff, and Ami really needs to get himself to work on this important subject that he feels has been neglected.

(As a side note, as a top I tend to call my bottoms "little girl" or "boy" and I get called "daddy" more often than not. Wierdly (now that I think of it), the inference of incest has never come up. It's a job description, or something...

I have no problem at all writing stories about pretend rapes. By that, I mean a man or some men, and a woman, where they pretend to rape her, but she is completely willing. I also have no problem writing about somebody spanking or being spanked or tied up, if it enhances the sexual pleasure of the people involved. I write about people having fun sex, whatever that entails. If the people involved are closely related, but want to have sex together, I will write about it. I have written a couple of stories about adult women who pretend to be young girls and have sex with a man. That is now also against the rules. I submitted an incest story about a 20 year old woman who pretended to be a lile girl and have sex with her daddy. It was rejected.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I have no problem at all writing stories about pretend rapes. By that, I mean a man or some men, and a woman, where they pretend to rape her, but she is completely willing. I also have no problem writing about somebody spanking or being spanked or tied up, if it enhances the sexual pleasure of the people involved. I write about people having fun sex, whatever that entails. If the people involved are closely related, but want to have sex together, I will write about it. I have written a couple of stories about adult women who pretend to be young girls and have sex with a man. That is now also against the rules. I submitted an incest story about a 20 year old woman who pretended to be a lile girl and have sex with her daddy. It was rejected.

See, that's where it gets stupid. Like i say, that squicks me, but adults can play whatever they please. I mean-- isn't that what we all were waiting for as kids?

In my story "Jessamine" Gloria refers to Jess as "Little girl" I wonder if that would have gotten the story bumped, if I'd tried posting it recently?

 

[Boxlicker101]

A couple of months ago, I wrote a story "Little Mandy and Her Daddy" about a man and his 20 yo daughter who have n ongoing incestuous relationship. She was pretending to be very young, about eight, and it went through okay. I wrote a Christmas story, "Little Mandy and Her Daddy's Present" and there was no roll play. This one wa also accepted. I wrote another about the same two people, "Little Mandy and Her Daddy's Shower" where she is wearing a Brownie Scout uniform and gets into the shower and sucks him off. Although I made it clear that she was 20years old and they were role playing, it was rejected.

When I rewrote it, using the same name but having her wear her college cheerleader costume, they changed to title to put quotation marks around the "Little" and described her, in the description as a college coed. They wanted to make sure she was known to be an adult.

 

[Pure]

note to stella, 3113, and others.

stella Eh well, let it be a double standard. There's a big difference between an adult who can take part in a real whipping if they so desire, or instigate a "real" rape for themselves. We all have our limits. Mine is in imagining myself, or anyone I'm boinking, to be twelve years old. I just won't do it. *shrug* You can if you wish, Pure, and so can Riff-Raff, and Ami really needs to get himself to work on this important subject that he feels has been neglected.

P: as far as i read ami, esp. in post 327, he's arguing that sometimes sex with minors is ok, if we weren't prudes. he further seems to have the view that they not uncommonly want sex with adults and would benefit from the 'learning'. i disagree with both of these claims.

these claims are the fruits of imagination, and likely porn. they seem entirely self serving, and not based in the evidence.

my point *regarding writing* [as opposed to acts] is just that all kinds of nasty acts are written about, e.g. murders, even mass murders. molesting kids is just one example of a very nasty act. i do not disapprove of such writings. some are of dubious quality, of course.

as to fantasy, i think everyone's thought of murder. cultivating thoughts about murder is unhealthy, though it only rarely results in a Dylan or Klebold.

some may, as you suggest, 'cultivate' fantasies about kids, but I'm not one of them. it likely seems like an unhealthy preoccupation, though--as with a thought of murder-- it falls short of a crime. on occasion, one in a thousand, an act may result from such cultivation. however in the criminal justice system, there is no way to deal with the 'cultivators' of antisocial thoughts, untill they do something. in that case, I favor punishment.


it is brought to my attention that these positions were not clear, and that other positions were seemingly dismissed by me as prudish or ill conceived. the positions of 3113, mabeuse, and others who don't want to read or write the fantasies that are the topic of this thread are respectable ones, embodied in Lit policies. I respect them and the thought behind them. and i recognize that 3113 and others are not bluenoses waiting to impose censorship on artists, even far out ones.

===

ami said, post 327
Although it may not be evident on this forum, the ole Amicus can be a rather good listener and promptor for extended conversations.

Over the years I have cultivated aqaintances with dozens of females of all ages around the world, thus what I am about to assert is not gleaned from a single source, but many.

I suggest that the overwhelming concern about the 'innocence' of young girls is rather misplaced and inaccurate in terms of the reality of the actual truth of the matter in general.

Girls at a very young age discover that massaging the clitoris is most pleasurable and they do it consistently, daily and more for some. They are also very curious and will insert first a finger then other objects into the vagina, just to experience the feeling.

Add to that, that many young girls have equally curious brothers and sexual exploration begins at an early age for both. Some girls are engaged in fondling penis's and bringing about erections long before one might expect.

Even more, as pubescence arrives, when boys and girls are separated, girls are permitted to sleep together and even sleep over at other girls homes. The beginning of breast buds is very curious to all and early experimentation is quite common among young girls. Even to the extent of playing mom and baby with girls suckling each other and pretending to be 'mom' or 'baby' with the appropriate nursing sounds being made.

Thus, many young girls have a healthy and natural curiousity about sexual activity at a very early age and are hardly, 'innocent', as the term is being applied on this thread.

It is also somewhat well known that the female, far more than the male, is more sensitive to tactile stimulation in almost all aspects of existence, from sight and sound to taste, smell and touch.

I would suggest that the 'first time' experience between members of the opposite sex is merely a continuation of sexual discovery and not nearly the traumatic event characterized by many on this thread.

Do not read into my words an advocacy of any sort, other than to reiterate that thinking about, writing about, early sexual awakenings is an area sadly neglected and I suggest it should not be.

 

[elsol]

P: as far as i read ami, esp. in post 327, he's arguing that sometimes sex with minors is ok, if we weren't prudes. he further seems to have the view that they not uncommonly want sex with adults and would benefit from the 'learning'. i disagree with both of these claims.
[/SIZE]

Sorry Pure... but as a male who remembers his teenage years; yeah, I did want.

If you're talking pre-teen--no, I wasn't even interested in sex or more accurately, I didn't know anything about sex.

But once the hormones hit, I did want and most commonly I wanted sex with adult females: teachers, my step-aunts (They were fucking hot!), my mother's friends, the neighbors, and strangers on the street AT LEAST until the girls my own age began to look a lot more like them or as the shift went more from the sexual to being interested in having one of those amorphous things called 'a girlfriend'.

I most assuredly wanted... what I couldn't do is handle it psychologically or emotionally with an adult as a sex partner.

Possibly, I'm not the common in either the desire or the inability at that age to deal with sex. (especially from the way, this thread seems to deal mostly with the female minor.)

I do believe the benefit thing is EXTREMELY iffy (and falls in my category of things never worth the risk), even for males... but a 'minor', which a teenager is, desiring sex with an adult... I don't believe that one is so uncommon especially for males in the early development of their sexual identity.

 

[Pure]

interesting points, el.

as to minors wanting sex with adults, i think ami and riff raff vastly overrated it.

the discussion of Lolita shows the same tendency, for i agree with some posters that the state of her desires is far from clear. perhaps she does it for *other* benefits, or because she has no other 'shoulder' to lie on.

as i think selena will point out, "sex" as desired, can mean many things. it's a symbol.

the case, further, is that the early teen--even when *saying* they want it-- does not know what sex involves. in that case, his or her desire is not well informed or well-founded. we can say, in many cases, it's not 'sex' --intercourse and its complications-- that's really desired (rather, intimacy, security, protection, whatever).

 

[amicus]

I am convinced that whoever is behind the SN Pure, is female and troubled. Perhaps only psychologically, but indeed, female in the worst bitchy, petulant, perverse meaning of the term.

It is simply called objectivity, of which Pure is simply not capable, resorting always to a personal character attack.

It is possible for a person to proceed from childhood, through adolescence and into maturity without a single traumatic sexual event.

It is also entirely possible for a person to contemplate case histories of abused minors and consider the circumstances without ever desiring to fulfill so called fantasies, about pedophilia or even underaged sex.

But not in Pure's world.

I suggest terrible traumatic events must, by definition, have play a role in the development of this warped and perverse personality.

But in all truthfulness, I don't give a shit. regardless.

Pure is a puny little puke with an agenda that supersedes any attempt at rationality on any subject.

There are millions of tragic and heartrending accounts of child abuse and molestation from every quarter. My research indicates that it colors the ensuing life of many young women and young men who manage to somehow survive.

Understanding and writing about the why's and wherefore's of such events should be a worthy pursuit, but not when censorship is practiced and accepted.

That solves nothing.

Amicus...

 

[Selena_Kitt]

as far as i read ami, esp. in post 327, he's arguing that sometimes sex with minors is ok, if we weren't prudes. he further seems to have the view that they not uncommonly want sex with adults and would benefit from the 'learning'. i disagree with both of these claims.

I agree with Ami, here, actually... although sex is, as Pure said I would say , a symbol... yes, it has a deeper meaning than the physical, but it is ALSO a physical desire.

El Sol talks about the young masculine experience of lust, which is clearly very strong. I can tell you that the feminine experience, too, is also strong, in spite of our cultural constructs around "good girls who don't."

Weird Harold and others have pointed out how much we have infantalized our adolscents, keeping them and treating them as "children" far too long. In most non-Western cultures, there is some rite of passage into adulthood, and it happens far before the 18th birthday. There are some cultural instances where "children" (i.e. adolescents) were once initiated into the ways of sex by an older, more experienced adult. It was a sacred, holy, and actually rather useful practice.

So I would assert that yes... in the right context, sex with minors is ok, if we weren't prudes... and it's true that adolescents often DO want sex with adults (as a symbol, yes, but physical lust is an also an adolescent reality) and could benefit from the 'learning' - in the right context.
(ETA: Ami, I'm pretty sure, actually, that Pure is a man... although I must say, you do this discussion as well as logic, reason, and your own masculine, a major disservice when you post bitchy posts like the last one. It's painful to read and sadly disappointing to me.)

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Just scrolling back...

3113, I think you missed the original, original, original, original point of this thread. A female, asking, "Am I disgusting for thinking about underage incest fantasies?" Now, the gender of the person involved is a presumption. The M/F box wasn't checked on their profile. Their fantasy perspective, though, suggests a feminine bent, regardless of gender.

Also, this:

For me to do underage incest, I would literally have to use my feelings towards my own daughters as a launching place. In other words, to do an honest job on an underage daddy-daughter incest story, I'd have to fantasize incest with my own daughters in order to understand the feelings involved. This is something I'm not willing to do for the rewards of writing a Lit story.

You make some really good points, Dr. M. And I think a lot of it comes down to this. A throw-away stroke story is one thing, but an erotic story where the reader wants to get into the character's head--where they want to know not only how the sex feels but how the character responds to it emotionally and psychologically (like Rifraff's "painful but rewarding"), requires that the writer do what they do best and really imagine themselves in that situation.

This might imply that writers can't possibly write, say, the the point of view of the opposite gender, because they can't imagine themselves in that situation simply because they lack the experience? That's just... well, it has, at the very least, been proven wrong on more than one occasion As for (pseudo)incest, you don't have to see it from the adult perspective. We've all been adolescents. How well you can imagine is simply up to your imagination and its personal boundaries and limits. Clearly Doc has a self-limited view. We are all, certainly, capable of imagining ourselves as someone else - or even something else.

Now if you're going to take the Jurassic Park judgment stance: "We were all too busy thinking about whether we could, we didn't bother to think about whether we should." Fine. But we're not talking about making prehistoric creatures from dino DNA here. What we're talking about is happening all on Psyche's playing field, entirely in the "inner" world.

It's fiction. Imagination. If you don't want to write about flying carpets or wizard schools or demons (inner or outer) you have that right. But don't judge someone else because they can, or they do. The limits to the imagination are endless, if you let them be.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

It's fiction. Imagination. If you don't want to write about flying carpets or wizard schools or demons (inner or outer) or underage incest, you have that right. But don't judge someone else because they can, or they do. The limits to the imagination are endless, if you let them be.

Good point. And at what point does "imagination" become lying?

 

[oggbashan]

Good point. And at what point does "imagination" become lying?

As soon as you start to write fiction.

Some cultures do not understand the concept of fiction at all. To them, if it is written, it must be literally true. When they find that it is not, their reactions can be extreme.

In some countries all we Literotica writers could be convicted as criminals.

Og

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Good point. And at what point does "imagination" become lying?

Everything you can imagine is real. -PABLO PICASSO

It's never lying. Psyche doesn't care whether it happens in the inner or the outer world. The inner world is just as real. Which is why fantasies never HAVE to be literalized. It's one of the connections that can be made to help actual pedophiles understand their own fantasies. But instead, our society wants to punish instead of reform, condemn instead of teach.

Imagination is the eye of the soul. -JOSEPH JOUBERT, Pensées

Imagination is an almost divine faculty which, without recourse to any philosophical method, immediately perceives everything: the secret and intimate connections between things, correspondences and analogies. -CHARLES BAUDELAIRE, New Notes on E. Poe, part III

And of course, this wonderful last, which incorporates your view of the "lie," Doc

Imagination, n. A warehouse of facts, with poet and liar in joint ownership. -AMBROSE BIERCE, The Devil's Dictionary

Imagination is the language of the inner world, the mind's eye is our connection with that which is greater that we are. You know I admire your passion and longing for showing the sacred in the profane, the divine in our physical union, Doc. I have that longing, too, but I think my personal development space is different... there are things I need to get through, first, to get to that place. I am heading that way. I'll get there. Eventually.

Imagination is the way through.

 

[Pure]

note re amicus; note to selena.

ami, said, as to his views on the thread topic,

It is also entirely possible for a person to contemplate case histories of abused minors and consider the circumstances without ever desiring to fulfill so called fantasies, about pedophilia or even underaged sex.

But not in Pure's world.

I suggest terrible traumatic events must, by definition, have play a role in the development of this warped and perverse personality.
===

i won't bother to quote amicus here, but i doubt anyone read his posts as simply calling for discussion of the effects of abuse. so the above is disingenuous.

--

selena, you make excellent points, as usual. i think there are *some desires by adolescents, for adults, sometimes. our "adolescents" as you point out, were formerly adults. i agree 14 plus should be treated more as adult, but they're not.

thus, in the present climate, when 14 thinks of sex with the h.s. teacher, i think there's a case to be made that "sex" is *probably* not really the uppermost issue in the teen's mind. further its emotional consequences are usually NOT envisioned: to take an example from my family-- a girl of 15 **whose parents were in a nasty divorce, and who'd quit school** took up with a fellow of 30 and got pregnant, then got abandoned, and ended up on welfare, with the Children's Aid people checking on her baby.

i think she wanted love and a daddy-figure. i think she didn't forsee abandonment. i think she did not understood the demands of a parent, but--as common-- saw the baby as someone supplying HER with love.

so, *in general*, but not invariably, in our context, the 'older male' thinking 'she wants [it], and i'll fuck her and she'll come and we'll be happy fucking' is deluding himself. also the alleged benefits accruing to the teen are misrepresented.

THAT said, I don't object to a STORY of a CHARACTER of 15 who enjoys the hell out of her h.s. teacher and comes 20 times when he has sex with her (NOT postable at Lit, for legal reasons). I see that as no different from a CHARACTER who enjoys being forced to have sex, forced by a brutal stranger, BUT who comes like crazy (postable at Lit). or a charcter who, from first year college, comes home and fucks dad, and has multiple orgasms (postable at lit). ALL THREE are fictions.

i doubt that most of these fictitious characters are confused with real life persons, but i'm sure it's happened the odd time. and this brings up the health of those who obsess with fantasies of anti social acts (i.e. in fact, antisocial acts; even if envisioned as with consenting, libidinous minors). i've already commented on this.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

so, *in general*, but not invariably, in our context, the 'older male" thinking 'she wants and i'll fuck her and she'll come and we'll be happy fucking' is deluding himself. also the alleged benefits accruing to the teen are misrepresented.

Yes, in our culture, this is (generally) the case.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Sorry Pure... but as a male who remembers his teenage years; yeah, I did want.

If you're talking pre-teen--no, I wasn't even interested in sex or more accurately, I didn't know anything about sex.

But once the hormones hit, I did want and most commonly I wanted sex with adult females: teachers, my step-aunts (They were fucking hot!), my mother's friends, the neighbors, and strangers on the street AT LEAST until the girls my own age began to look a lot more like them or as the shift went more from the sexual to being interested in having one of those amorphous things called 'a girlfriend'.

I most assuredly wanted... what I couldn't do is handle it psychologically or emotionally with an adult as a sex partner.

Possibly, I'm not the common in either the desire or the inability at that age to deal with sex. (especially from the way, this thread seems to deal mostly with the female minor.)

I do believe the benefit thing is EXTREMELY iffy (and falls in my category of things never worth the risk), even for males... but a 'minor', which a teenager is, desiring sex with an adult... I don't believe that one is so uncommon especially for males in the early development of their sexual identity.

I'm every step of the way, with Elsol's post. This is my experience as well-- I was uninterested in sex (with other people) until my menses started and then, suddenly, it ALL MADE SENSE! But that was at fifteen-and-a-half. NOT at twelve, not before the hormones did their thing.

And just like Elsol, I made little distinction between older peole and my peers at first. And I would not have been able to handle any sex partners, emotionally or psychologically at that age. My first 'real sex' came about a year later, a year after I had thrown the door open so to speak.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

I'm every step of the way, with Elsol's post. This is my experience as well-- I was uninterested in sex (with other people) until my menses started and then, suddenly, it ALL MADE SENSE! But that was at fifteen-and-a-half. NOT at twelve, not before the hormones did their thing.

I was ten. Just turned ten.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I was ten. Just turned ten.

Waaaay to young for the relationship issues! (I imagine)

My daughter was eleven. For her, it put her completely off-- she only recently became active. And you know I would have supported her in any way, whatever. I never said "you should" or "you shouldn't."

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Waaaay to young for the relationship issues! (I imagine)

My daughter was eleven. For her, it put her completely off-- she only recently became active. And you know I would have supported her in any way, whatever. I never said "you should" or "you shouldn't."

I was kissing boys in the 2nd grade. I won't tell you what I was doing at ten.

 

[Leeboytoy]

I was kissing boys in the 2nd grade. I won't tell you what I was doing at ten.

*eyes widen*

 

[Stella_Omega]

I was kissing boys in the 2nd grade. I won't tell you what I was doing at ten.

Hmm. I believe we'd better step into my bedroom-- I mean my office.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Hmm. I believe we'd better step into my bedroom-- I mean my office.

and you wondered where my proclivities came from? I could spend hours on that couch... lol

 

[amicus]

Ah, that first kiss, cousin Patty Ann...at age four... still remember...

Been chasing the softness everyafter...



Ami...