Kid Arrested For Using Knife To Cut Meat

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

http://www.wftv.com/news/14858405/detail.html

People have NO common sense anymore.

 

[emap]

Oh my, I am disagreeing with you, how normal is that?

I mean yes it is silly to arrest her for taking a steak knife to school to cut up a peice of steak, also silly for the school to have to report it. You know what though, it is good they reported it, it will get giggles out of the kids, but you know what, they will know any knife taken to school is going to be met with police. Which means they will not be taking a knife to school. I actually remember being that age still, getting really mad, most would grab up any weapon available.

A steak knife is very deadly when used as a weapon, a spork, not so much and generally makes you feel and look silly so everyone starts laughing. Which means the spork is not used as a weapon most of the time they are grabbed. A steak knife on the other hand, people start screaming and running away and you feel powerful, not a good thing when mad.

So yes, in this instant silly thing to happen, but it has a definite use as it is. I remember schools used to have metal forks and really dull knives in the cafeteria, now they have those little plastic sporks and no plastic knives. Granted slight overkill but with the internet being so rampant and everybody with an axe to grind grabbing up guns and shooting up schools probably better.

Not that I don't think it is silly to force our kids to use a spork to eat cafeteria food, or that this case is not silly. You know, honestly I find it silly that a spork or fork is needed to eat cafeteria food to begin with, when I went it was all pizza, burritoes and french fries, oh and those thick enough to eat with a fork shakes. This was high school mind, I don't recall my grade school having food service, we all brown bagged.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

http://www.wftv.com/news/14858405/detail.html

People have NO common sense anymore.

I totally agree with you. It's insanity.

 

[R. Richard]

I mean yes it is silly to arrest her for taking a steak knife to school to cut up a peice of steak, also silly for the school to have to report it. You know what though, it is good they reported it, it will get giggles out of the kids, but you know what, they will know any knife taken to school is going to be met with police. Which means they will not be taking a knife to school. I actually remember being that age still, getting really mad, most would grab up any weapon available.

A steak knife is very deadly when used as a weapon, a spork, not so much and generally makes you feel and look silly so everyone starts laughing. Which means the spork is not used as a weapon most of the time they are grabbed. A steak knife on the other hand, people start screaming and running away and you feel powerful, not a good thing when mad.

So yes, in this instant silly thing to happen, but it has a definite use as it is. I remember schools used to have metal forks and really dull knives in the cafeteria, now they have those little plastic sporks and no plastic knives. Granted slight overkill but with the internet being so rampant and everybody with an axe to grind grabbing up guns and shooting up schools probably better.

Not that I don't think it is silly to force our kids to use a spork to eat cafeteria food, or that this case is not silly. You know, honestly I find it silly that a spork or fork is needed to eat cafeteria food to begin with, when I went it was all pizza, burritoes and french fries, oh and those thick enough to eat with a fork shakes. This was high school mind, I don't recall my grade school having food service, we all brown bagged.

I must fault your logic here. Yes, a steak knife can be used as a weapon.

1) Keys, allowed to protrude through the fingers, are a vicious in-close weapon in a fight. [Ladies, if you have to walk through eh dark to your car, take note! The keys may be used to augment a punch or a as a slashing weapon.] Would you also ban keys?

2) A pencil is an effective, in-close thrusting weapon in a fight. Would you also ban pencils?

3) Finger rings will augment a punch. Would you also ban finger rings?

4) A thin strip of leather, used as a belt, is a surprisingly effective weapon. [The art is called string fighting and the best have seen are French boys.] Would you also ban belts?

5) A chain [motorcycle secondary or logging] belt is a deadly weapon. In fact, in many venues, such a belt is illegal to wear. [In many of the venues, R. Richard was there!]

6) A cane is a deadly weapon. [Among my boyhood heros were Malacca Johnny and 'Bat' Masterson. Also check the Vigny cane fighting system.] Would you also ban canes?

7) An umbrella can be used in somewhat similar fashion to a cane, although the umbrella has both strengths and weaknesses compared to the cane. Would you also ban umbrellas?

8) A hanky can be used as a deadly weapon. Check out the Thugs of India. Would you also ban hankies?

9) A 'garrison belt,' a leather belt with a heavy buckle is a useful figthing weapon against a single opponent, but is not really suited for multple opponents [see chain belt.] Would you also ban leather belts with big buckles?

10) Combat boots are deadly weapons. If you happen to land in your local jail, avoid the mofo who wears combat boots, for he is most likely hardcore. Would you also ban combat boots?

11) A metal fork can be very easily turned into a vicious weapon by someone with the knowledge and a few minutes of preparation time. They often do ban metal forks.

12) There are available, if you know where to look, deadly fighting knives made of 'plastic.' [Better described as 'composite material.'] Many of them are named with 'frequent flier' in their name.

There are a host of other common items that the knowlegeable can turn into deadly weapons. If you start banning all of the items, you wind up with nudists in school. Now, I have no issue with hot young babe coming to school nude, but you also wind up with ass hole pervert boys wandering around naked.

As to your description of the food at your schools, I don't know where you went to school, but in the South Central the school cafeteriia specialized in stew of mashed vegetables and mystery meat. No one was ever able to prove anything, but after eating the meat, the eater would feel an overwhelming urge to chase after cars while barking.

 

[Oblimo]

Possession of a weapon on school grounds is a felony in that jurisdiction. That part makes sense. Both the schools and the sheriffs office said that they had no discretion in how to deal with the situation. And that's insane:

School officials said it doesn't matter what the knife was being used for. They said they had no choice.

"Anytime there's a weapon on campus, yes, we have to report it and we aggressively report it because we don't want to take any chances, regardless," Christian said.

But the sheriff's office said the extreme measures in what some may say was a harmless incident had to do with school policy, not theirs.

"But once we're notified, we have to take some type of action," Pogue explained.

Zero Tolerance does not mean always punish. It means, always report, then use your damn head to decide appropriate action.

 

[Oblimo]

I must fault your logic here. Yes, a steak knife can be used as a weapon.

I suspect, like in most weapon possession statutes, steak knives are expressly included as "weapons."

Remember, possession crimes require no mens rea.

 

[R. Richard]

I suspect, like in most weapon possession statutes, steak knives are expressly included as "weapons."

Remember, possession crimes require no mens rea.

"Steak knives" would almost certainly not be included in most weapons possesion statutes. The qualifying factor for knives is usually blade length. [A length of greater than 2.75 to 3 inches qualifies as a deadly weapon in most stautes.] The fact of whether or not the blade was part of a steak knife is not relevant, only the length of said blade. [I was involved in a case where a balisong [fan] knife was used. The claim by the defendant was that he had no knowledge that the balisong knife opened into a deadly weapon. The Judge threw the case out of Court, without ruling on the claim. Can you say, 'bucket of worms?'

In most jurisdictions, the naked fist of a boxer [or martial arts expert] is not considered to be a deadly weapon. However, there have been exceptions, upheld on appeal. Usually, the qualification of one party to a physical assault being a professional boxer or martial artist is not legal proof that a deadly weapon was used. However, many Judges do take into consideration the striking skill of a boxer or martial artist, some times during arguments and even more frequently during sentencing.

I am not a lawyer. However, for some unknown reason, I have been involved in a lot of Court cases involving physical violence, usually with deadly weapons. [In all of the cases, my involvement was plainly and simply a roust, with no legal justification. The fact that witnesses often refused to testify was certainly none of my affair.]

 

[emap]

Oh yes I know all about the weapon uses of most anything made by man, including paper. I'd explain it to you sometime but well it's not actually deadly in and of itself.

I also happen to know that very very few kids in grade school or even high school know how to use most of those besides a pencil. See it is not actually the matter of banning everything that could be a weapon, just banning the things that are or could be easily used and readily noticeable as a weapon. Which means knives, guns of course, sticks, and clubs. Well OK so I left a few of those out, you know what I mean.

Pencils have to stay because well, what else could you write with? I don't think all schools have a computer at every desk after all.

I think they are banning chains, more the hanging ones that were so popular with kids who were goth or wanted to be Hell's Angels.

Belts kinda fall under the not readily apparent as a weapon, besides look at what most kids are wearing now. those belts serve a very useful purpose, keeping their darn pants up.

Really your being silly R, most of the things you list as weapons are only really a weapon when used by someone trained in their use, like the belt or hanky.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

EMAP ET AL

In the Old Days the cafeteria monitor would confiscate the knife, and mom would be called to come get it and be advised of the policy. End of story. No fuss, no bother.

Today we like everything to be a BIG DEAL. Our local cops love to sweat the small stuff. I'm not exaggerating...if the girl had drawn a Thanksgiving picture and included a knife in the drawing (for carving the bird), Barney & Gomer would have arrested her because the local schools do not allow the depiction of 'weapons.' And this is as silly as the school calling Animal Control when a kid draws a picture of an unlicensed dog.

I can cite plenty of cases where local cops spun the law into pretzels to make an arrest. Like the sick mom who was hauled off to jail when the officer saw poop in her baby's diaper. The cops found mom unconscious (diabetic), EMS revived her, and the officer charged her with child neglect....a felony in this state.

No one ises common-sense anymore.

 

[emap]

For drawing something? Are you kidding or are you being serious?

Oh heck I suppose I should ask if you can be serious.

In the cases you mention though yeah no common sense, or rather common sense gets shoved aside for some reason. I'm not sure, do cops actually have an arrest quota?

 

[Oblimo]

"Steak knives" would almost certainly not be included in most weapons possesion statutes. The qualifying factor for knives is usually blade length. [A length of greater than 2.75 to 3 inches qualifies as a deadly weapon in most stautes.] The fact of whether or not the blade was part of a steak knife is not relevant, only the length of said blade.

Yes, and steak knifes tend to be that long, that's all I was trying to say.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

EMAP

Oh! I can cite some bizarre cases involving local cops and kids.

One of my favorite Christmas stories involves a cop who went to a house for a well person check, or whatever, on Christmas Eve.

While he was in the home the cop discovered a pack of spoiled hamburger in the refrigerator. he arrested the mom for child neglect (a felony). His sergeant responded after a call to the station, and tried to talk the cop out of the arrest. The cop wouldnt budge.

Then I got called. I came to the house and suggested we throw the god-damned meat in the garbage and leave. Nope! The cop wanted the woman booked in jail.

Finally, the sergeant told the goofy cop to toss the meat and leave.

About a month later the same cop shows up for work with a blond wig, in a dress and heels and makeup.

 

[R. Richard]

Really your being silly R, most of the things you list as weapons are only really a weapon when used by someone trained in their use, like the belt or hanky.

I lived in the South Central area of Los Angeles. I never received one second of training in any of the weapons I listed, other than self training. Nonetheless, I was considered [by the schools, by the police and by the gangbangers] an expert user of each and every weapon I listed and more. When you are Whi' Boy in the South Cemtral, you find weapons where you can.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

RICHARD

You should be bad like me. When I go in the ghetto or Cracker trailer parks, the boyzz take one look and conclude they dont need the kind of problem I can inflict. They think 'He maybe gonna make a ham sandwich outta my ass.'

 

[R. Richard]

RICHARD

You should be bad like me. When I go in the ghetto or Cracker trailer parks, the boyzz take one look and conclude they dont need the kind of problem I can inflict. They think 'He maybe gonna make a ham sandwich outta my ass.'

JBJ, you gotta' keep working on the rep to eliminate the 'maybe.'

 

[angelicminx]

While I have a problem with the arrest of this child, whom it was determined through investigation was NOT using the knife as a weapon, I have to wonder what the girl and her parents were thinking. Over the course of at least the last 8 years (since Columbine), schools across the nation have adopted a 'Zero Tolerence' policy regarding weapons. These policies, and the reasons behind them, saturate the media so thoroughly that only someone who lives in a hole would not know about them, or the consequences for violating those policies.

I hate that this child made such a mistake. For the argument of preventive measures, suspension is indeed in order. A felony charge, however, is not.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

ANGELMINX

But the kid wasnt a lunatic, she was cutting her food. The common-sensical thing to do was take the knife and have momma come get it. The kid likely packed her own lunch.

Around here deputies like to make the sheriff look like a complete fool, with some of the arrests they make. Especially arrests of young kids.

I drug out the law books last night. To get a charge to stick, the cops have to demonstrate that the kid had intent to violate a law. Then there's the question of is the knife a weapon or a tool? If she was using the knife as a tool, she didnt bring a weapon to school.

 

[angelicminx]

Which is why I said that suspension was in order, not a felony. I don't think she should have been arrested, as I stated, because it was proven upon investigation that she was NOT using the knife as a weapon, and did not intend to. If she gets adequate representation, the weapons charge won't stick, for the reasons you stated. That's even if it gets to court. A DA worth their salt will dismiss the case. Unfortunately, her parents will probably have to fight to get the arrest expunged from her record.

However, she DID violate school policy, no matter her 'intent', or whether she, her family or we agree with the policy, and because of that should be suspended. If she or her parents want to fight the suspension and/ or the policy, they will have to go to the school board.

If the child did indeed pack her own lunch, what happened to parental supervision? The child is 10, guidence is still in order.

While I agree, common sense should have come into play on the part of the school, at the same time look at how many teachers or other adults have been considered responsible for not preventing an incident.

Would you still think the same way if the same child, after finishing lunch unimpeded, got pissed off at someone and decided to stab them with their steak knife?

Most likely, had the teachers not reported, following school policy, and something horrible had happened, the teachers would find themselves disciplined, without a job, or worse.

An added note: I do think the child should have been made to sit in the office until one or both of her parents arrived to pick up the knife, and discuss the gravity of the issue. (With schoolwork brought to the office to occupy her time.)

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

angelmix

I checked the law. The law exempts pocket knives, plastic knives, and dull bladed eating utensils as weapons.

I'll be surprised if some eager beaver prosecutor doesnt go for a trial and conviction. This is the kind of case they love. They usually offer the parent some outrageous deal and try to scare them if they dont accept. But I'll be surprised if the jury cobvicts this kid. They almost never convict kids for nonsense stuff.

It will cost taxpayers $25,000 and the end result will be the same as a conference with mom.

 

[R. Richard]

angelmix

I checked the law. The law exempts pocket knives, plastic knives, and dull bladed eating utensils as weapons.

Wow! That means I can carry my Mad Dog Frequent Flyer to school!

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Man! There's no telling what they'd contrue THAT to be. I feel uncomfortable taking an ink pen to school. Though the haystacks in the office bring every variety of cutlery in to slice Christmas goodies with. I've seen some steel that would frighten a Viking.

 

[emap]

You know James you should start a thread talking about the silly things you see at work. I am pretty darn sure it wuld be one of the more popular threads.

I know I would be loving it, and I bet most everyone who has a job has at least one silly thing they have seen.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

EMAP

Just when I think it cant get any sillier, it gets sillier. I'll start a thread with some of the stupid shit the police do around here.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

I must fault your logic here. Yes, a steak knife can be used as a weapon.

1) Keys, allowed to protrude through the fingers, are a vicious in-close weapon in a fight. [Ladies, if you have to walk through eh dark to your car, take note! The keys may be used to augment a punch or a as a slashing weapon.] Would you also ban keys?

2) A pencil is an effective, in-close thrusting weapon in a fight. Would you also ban pencils?

3) Finger rings will augment a punch. Would you also ban finger rings?

4) A thin strip of leather, used as a belt, is a surprisingly effective weapon. [The art is called string fighting and the best have seen are French boys.] Would you also ban belts?

5) A chain [motorcycle secondary or logging] belt is a deadly weapon. In fact, in many venues, such a belt is illegal to wear. [In many of the venues, R. Richard was there!]

6) A cane is a deadly weapon. [Among my boyhood heros were Malacca Johnny and 'Bat' Masterson. Also check the Vigny cane fighting system.] Would you also ban canes?

7) An umbrella can be used in somewhat similar fashion to a cane, although the umbrella has both strengths and weaknesses compared to the cane. Would you also ban umbrellas?

8) A hanky can be used as a deadly weapon. Check out the Thugs of India. Would you also ban hankies?

9) A 'garrison belt,' a leather belt with a heavy buckle is a useful figthing weapon against a single opponent, but is not really suited for multple opponents [see chain belt.] Would you also ban leather belts with big buckles?

10) Combat boots are deadly weapons. If you happen to land in your local jail, avoid the mofo who wears combat boots, for he is most likely hardcore. Would you also ban combat boots?

11) A metal fork can be very easily turned into a vicious weapon by someone with the knowledge and a few minutes of preparation time. They often do ban metal forks.

12) There are available, if you know where to look, deadly fighting knives made of 'plastic.' [Better described as 'composite material.'] Many of them are named with 'frequent flier' in their name.

There are a host of other common items that the knowlegeable can turn into deadly weapons. If you start banning all of the items, you wind up with nudists in school. Now, I have no issue with hot young babe coming to school nude, but you also wind up with ass hole pervert boys wandering around naked.

As to your description of the food at your schools, I don't know where you went to school, but in the South Central the school cafeteriia specialized in stew of mashed vegetables and mystery meat. No one was ever able to prove anything, but after eating the meat, the eater would feel an overwhelming urge to chase after cars while barking.

Dude... you are just... scary!

 

[Boxlicker101]

"Steak knives" would almost certainly not be included in most weapons possesion statutes. The qualifying factor for knives is usually blade length. [A length of greater than 2.75 to 3 inches qualifies as a deadly weapon in most stautes.] The fact of whether or not the blade was part of a steak knife is not relevant, only the length of said blade. [I was involved in a case where a balisong [fan] knife was used. The claim by the defendant was that he had no knowledge that the balisong knife opened into a deadly weapon. The Judge threw the case out of Court, without ruling on the claim. Can you say, 'bucket of worms?'

In most jurisdictions, the naked fist of a boxer [or martial arts expert] is not considered to be a deadly weapon. However, there have been exceptions, upheld on appeal. Usually, the qualification of one party to a physical assault being a professional boxer or martial artist is not legal proof that a deadly weapon was used. However, many Judges do take into consideration the striking skill of a boxer or martial artist, some times during arguments and even more frequently during sentencing.

I am not a lawyer. However, for some unknown reason, I have been involved in a lot of Court cases involving physical violence, usually with deadly weapons. [In all of the cases, my involvement was plainly and simply a roust, with no legal justification. The fact that witnesses often refused to testify was certainly none of my affair.]

I would think steak knives would be very much included. They have blades of four to five inches, sharp tips and sharp, usually serrated blades. You can stab people to death with a steak knife or cut their throats. ETA; They are certainly not "dull eating utensils". An ordinary table knife would probably qualify for that.

I wonder if people at this school ever play baseball or football or hockey or lacrosse or tennis or golf.