Using 'now' in past-tense narrative

[SimonDoom]

This question is a lot like starting sentences with And and But. Technically, no, you shouldn't do that. Starting with And or But makes them dependent clauses, but in fiction it's okay to be artistic.

HOWEVER, if you also write sloppy sentences with run-ons and fragments, people are going to walk away from your work thinking you don't know what you're doing. If you use Now a whole bunch in the past tense AND you have a bunch of tense disagreements and incorrect verb forms, your artistic choice just makes your actual mistakes look much worse.

To paraphrase Roger Ebert, learn how to frame a shot correctly before you start experimenting with Dutch angles.

Doc, sorry. Nope. You are spreading misinformation! I'm a bit chagrined.

Beginning what is otherwise an independent clause/full sentence with "and" does not make it a dependent clause.

"I went to the store, and I bought some bread."

This is two independent clauses joined by "and" as a conjunction.

You could also write:

"I went to the store. And I bought some bread."

This is two complete sentences.

Most editors and publishing houses would say starting a sentence with "and" is perfectly OK.

"I went to the store, because I wanted to buy some bread."

"I went to the store when I discovered I was ought of bread."

"I went to the store until I realized that I had bought bread the day before."

THESE are examples of "and" joining an independent clause with a dependent clause, because the second clause cannot stand on its own as a sentence.

The difference here is that in the last three examples the latter clause is a subordinate clause that in some way modifies or explains, and is dependent on, the first clause, while in the first example you have two clauses that stand on their own, joined by an "and."

 

[SimonDoom]

I've just realized, this question will become even more complex with the time-travel-story draft I'm working on.

Come back here when you've written a lot of it and you'll have fun really messing with people.

Frankly, I'd rather talk about this than the Lit voting system. At least on this topic I have some idea what I'm talking about.

 

[TheExperimentalist]

"I went to the store when I discovered I was ought of bread."

You were wrought of bread?

 

[AwkwardMD]

Doc, sorry. Nope. You are spreading misinformation! I'm a bit chagrined.

Beginning what is otherwise an independent clause/full sentence with "and" does not make it a dependent clause.

"I went to the store, and I bought some bread."

This is two independent clauses joined by "and" as a conjunction.

You could also write:

"I went to the store. And I bought some bread."

This is two complete sentences.

Most editors and publishing houses would say starting a sentence with "and" is perfectly OK.

"I went to the store, because I wanted to buy some bread."

"I went to the store when I discovered I was ought of bread."

"I went to the store until I realized that I had bought bread the day before."

THESE are examples of "and" joining an independent clause with a dependent clause, because the second clause cannot stand on its own as a sentence.

The difference here is that in the last three examples the latter clause is a subordinate clause that in some way modifies or explains, and is dependent on, the first clause, while in the first example you have two clauses that stand on their own, joined by an "and."

Editors and publishing houses are being paid (or taking a cut) to make sure your work doesn't also include the kind of ancillary mistakes that put a glaring spotlight on bad writing. No such safety net exists here.

Fundamentals, fundamentals, fundamentals.

 

[YmaOHyd]

But since writing is communication, clarity can only be a virtue. And although there is no substitute for merit in writing, clarity comes closest to being one.

Strunk and White's The Elements of Style, 1959

 

[Z_TheWriter]

Pretty sure he'd dislike this one too...

Replace "An hour ago" with "Previously," or any number of other ways, you still have the same problem. Forbidding relative time descriptors will make a story in the past tense more or less impossible unless it's told 100% linearly.

We end up with "He made a thread in AH. An hour passed. He walked over to look at his computer."

It's not wrong, but it's pretty hard to make interesting to read. It also means you're extremely limited in the ways you can bring up past events previously hidden from the reader.

 

[Zootonius]

I think we have the same editor. And he's such a good editor I cede him this point.

 

[AwkwardMD]

Replace "An hour ago" with "Previously," or any number of other ways, you still have the same problem. Forbidding relative time descriptors will make a story in the past tense more or less impossible unless it's told 100% linearly.

We end up with "He made a thread in AH. An hour passed. He walked over to look at his computer."

It's not wrong, but it's pretty hard to make interesting to read. It also means you're extremely limited in the ways you can bring up past events previously hidden from the reader.

Learn how to tell a story linearly before you try messing with time.

Fundamentals.

 

[SimonDoom]

Strunk and White's The Elements of Style, 1959

Aside from having a solid command of the rules, EB White was just an excellent, graceful stylist with an ear for, and understanding of, the language. He was a respected editor and writer for The New Yorker. He's one of my "go-to" authors to look at to answer the question, "Is it OK to do this?" If he does it then it's almost certainly OK.

Another, more recent author I consult is Elmore Leonard, who has a solid, by-the-book style that serves as a good common-denominator guide for what an author can do. An author might want to stretch their style more than he does, but if you're doing it like he does it you're probably on solid ground.

 

[YmaOHyd]

Aside from having a solid command of the rules, EB White was just an excellent, graceful stylist with an ear for, and understanding of, the language. He was a respected editor and writer for The New Yorker. He's one of my "go-to" authors to look at to answer the question, "Is it OK to do this?" If he does it then it's almost certainly OK.

Another, more recent author I consult is Elmore Leonard, who has a solid, by-the-book style that serves as a good common-denominator guide for what an author can do. An author might want to stretch their style more than he does, but if you're doing it like he does it you're probably on solid ground.

It's weird because I was just told that Elmore Leonard was unreadable by someone On Here.

 

[AwkwardMD]

It's weird because I was just told that Elmore Leonard was unreadable by someone On Here.

The man who invented Raylan can do no wrong.

I still maintain that some of you do not grasp how far below baseline writing capability some new authors are, and that encouraging them to experiment too early does not help them grow. If they have to ask, they aren't ready.

 

[YmaOHyd]

The man who invented Raylan can do no wrong.

I still maintain that some of you do not grasp how far below baseline writing capability some new authors are, and that encouraging them to experiment too early does not help them grow. If they have to ask, they aren't ready.

Look, I agree with that. Most people should not attempt to tell their stories by using present participles in place of simple past, for example. But I also think that, for example, being able to distinguish the near-past from the far-past is a fundamental piece of writing in the past tense.

 

[Writer61]

Hey, can we please refrain from direct attacks, even in jest? Like I said, I have a lot of appreciation for him, this is just one (in my opinion) of those silly little made up rules that we all seem to get in our heads and just can't let go of.

How on earth is that a direct attack? I have no idea who your editor is.

You are the one who put your editor in the firing line by raising your difference of opinion.

 

[AwkwardMD]

Look, I agree with that. Most people should not attempt to tell their stories by using present participles in place of simple past, for example. But I also think that, for example, being able to distinguish the near-past from the far-past is a fundamental piece of writing in the past tense.

Scales are less interesting to listen to than Claire de lune. Should a new author start with Debussy?

 

[YmaOHyd]

Scales are less interesting to listen to than Claire de lune. Should a new author start with Debussy?

Correct usage of adverbs to indicate relative time is a scale in this analogy.

 

[MelissaBaby]

The man who invented Raylan can do no wrong.

I still maintain that some of you do not grasp how far below baseline writing capability some new authors are, and that encouraging them to experiment too early does not help them grow. If they have to ask, they aren't ready.

 

[TheExperimentalist]

Replace "An hour ago" with "Previously," or any number of other ways, you still have the same problem. Forbidding relative time descriptors will make a story in the past tense more or less impossible unless it's told 100% linearly.

We end up with "He made a thread in AH. An hour passed. He walked over to look at his computer."

It's not wrong, but it's pretty hard to make interesting to read. It also means you're extremely limited in the ways you can bring up past events previously hidden from the reader.

Not ALL relative time descriptors. "An hour later" is fine, as it refers to "later than the previous incident". He seems to only have this problem with 'now' and descriptors that are relative to 'now'. (e.g. "A week ago" vs. "A week earlier")

I think we have the same editor. And he's such a good editor I cede him this point.

Kenji?

 

[Z_TheWriter]

There are caveats to everything, but I had a teacher whose favorite phrase was: "Learning by fucking up." I started learning piano by practicing "To Zanarkand" from Final Fantasy X. I wouldn't have stuck with learning only scales or children's tunes at that age.

Being probably the least experienced writer in this thread, I think I will leave my part there, before I make that fact too apparent.

 

[AwkwardMD]

View attachment 2582643

Support your local asshole or bitch.

 

[AwkwardMD]

There are caveats to everything, but I had a teacher whose favorite phrase was: "Learning by fucking up." I started learning piano by practicing "To Zanarkand" from Final Fantasy X. I wouldn't have stuck with learning only scales or children's tunes at that age.

Being probably the least experienced writer in this thread, I think I will leave my part there, before I make that fact too apparent.

This is the fundamental difference I feel like people are missing.

You didn't ask. You started on something hard. Good for you. It sounds like you have the grit to be a tough judge of your own talent.

The OP is fielding second opinions because they don't like the first one they got, but aren't confident enough to just push on with their vision and say "It's like this because that's how I want it."

 

[YmaOHyd]

OP's asking for a factual clarification.

 

[AwkwardMD]

OP's asking for a factual clarification.

Fiction and language are an infinite sandbox. Even if it was factually wrong (which I'm not arguing), there would still be cases for breaking that rule.

EDIT: whether or not it is factually true doesn't matter. What matters most, if you're trying to help someone, is to give them advice that meets them where they are. Sometimes that means being told no.

 

[TheLobster]

He seems to only have this problem with 'now' and descriptors that are relative to 'now'. (e.g. "A week ago" vs. "A week earlier")

This makes me wonder... If you were writing about a character taking a walk through a city street, and how he realized that the store he had passed some time earlier was the one he should've gone in to buy some knick-knack — would your editor object equally to "a store he passed five minutes ago" and "a store he passed two blocks ago"?

Time is a dimension, after all, but it's not the only dimension a story takes place in. If "now" and any referents thereof are off limits, then why not "here" and anything that refers to the relative positions of your characters in space?

 

[Bramblethorn]

While I am quite grateful to the volunteer editor I work with for having been so supportive along my journey, he and I do still have a bit of an ongoing friendly debate. Namely: Is the word 'now' acceptable to use in narratives presented in past tense?

These examples seem fine to me. Searching on "was now" finds countless examples of the same kind of construction.

 

[YmaOHyd]

Even if it was factually wrong (which I'm not arguing),

The rule would say no, do not use now in past tense. Now means now.

If you're not arguing that, why did you tell him the rule is not to use now in past-tense writing? That's straight-up incorrect.