WTF is it with the incest!?

[TomTeacher19]

None of us chooses our sexual wiring. Incest and yes, age difference FANTASIES (only), are so common it’s nearly unremarkable.

There are millions of bodies out there that almost everyone if they looked at from behind or the neck down or the the waist down you would find attractive and have some level of sexual thought or interest or desire for. And huge parts of that group are people who also happen to be under 18 or related to you or off limits for any number of good reasons. Doesn't change the attraction or initial thoughts or make them wrong or horrible. It's part of life and being a human. Fantasies don't hurt people.

 

[Theatreslut]

Excellent.
And your parents
Children.
Your work colleagues
Your Pastor.
Congregation.
Nothing to hide here after all...

There is a difference between not hiding and forcing people to be part of things they aren’t interested in.
For me, my husband knows everything I do here, and sometimes participates.
My mom and my husband’s parents actively would not want to know. Telling them would feel like forcing them into incest
I don’t have kids. My adult niece knows that she can talk to me about sex and that I’m sex positive. Anything else would be creepy
One of my pastor’s knows he has listened as I’ve figured out where my ethics lie. He doesn’t know what site or any details because that would be unethical giving the power dynamic.
I don’t hide anything from any of my friends. Some want to know more than others. I respect that. Some would be fine with details but sharing those details with them would feel weird because of our relationship.

 

[Theatreslut]

My wife sure does! And she's read and helped edit all my stories, too. I encourage her to read everything I've ever posted here on Lit.

I've not posted one remark or liked a single comment on Literotica that I can't defend as ethical. I don't have a problem with porn, or kink that is ethical.

I admire you for this

 

[Theatreslut]

I wish that stories involving incest had a clear label on the top. I really don’t care if it’s your thing. It’s not mine, and I don’t want to get partway into a story and discover it

 

[BlueChamisa]

I wish that stories involving incest had a clear label on the top. I really don’t care if it’s your thing. It’s not mine, and I don’t want to get partway into a story and discover it

I agree that people should not force their particular interests on anyone, or insert them into threads that have nothing to do with their kink. I just object to the shaming of someone's FANTASIES ... especially by any one of the lovable pervs/kinksters here. No need to do that!

 

[Theatreslut]

I agree that people should not force their particular interests on anyone, or insert them into threads that have nothing to do with their kink. I just object to the shaming of someone's FANTASIES ... especially by any one of the lovable pervs/kinksters here. No need to do that!

I think there is a difference between shaming and asking people to keep potential ptsd triggers to threads meant for them, so people can avoid them.
Fantasies involving consenting adults are fine. Unfortunately, for people who have been SAed, running into posts in random places talking about those fantasies does harm.
It’s the same thing as rape play. If everyone involved is actually consenting, go for it. Just try not to re traumatize people who are trying to take back their sexuality.
Have as many threads and stories as you want. Go wild. Just please label it and allow for spaces that don’t include that kink.

Somehow, I never accidentally run into gay male content. Which is something that doesn’t do anything for me, but which is an hugely important part of people’s lives, and a kink for others. Yet that content tends to be labeled so I know it’s not going to be my thing.

I feel the same way about things I do like. Hell, I even put a warning on the top of one of my stories that a man was involved, because previous chapters had been only women, and not everyone wants to hear about an erect penis (not to equate genitalia and gender)

 

[BlueChamisa]

I think there is a difference between shaming and asking people to keep potential ptsd triggers to threads meant for them, so people can avoid them.
Fantasies involving consenting adults are fine. Unfortunately, for people who have been SAed, running into posts in random places talking about those fantasies does harm.
It’s the same thing as rape play. If everyone involved is actually consenting, go for it. Just try not to re traumatize people who are trying to take back their sexuality.
Have as many threads and stories as you want. Go wild. Just please label it and allow for spaces that don’t include that kink.

Somehow, I never accidentally run into gay male content. Which is something that doesn’t do anything for me, but which is an hugely important part of people’s lives, and a kink for others. Yet that content tends to be labeled so I know it’s not going to be my thing.

I feel the same way about things I do like. Hell, I even put a warning on the top of one of my stories that a man was involved, because previous chapters had been only women, and not everyone wants to hear about an erect penis (not to equate genitalia and gender)

I was SA's as a boy, unfortunately (scoutmaster; still in prison; am part of the settlement with the Boy Scouts of America, who allowed him to continue harming boys long after I blew the whistle).

I will still stand by the right of any person to use their imagination for anything they like, so long as they do not impose it on people who do not wish to be a part of it. In that, we agree: People shouldn't intrude with their fantasies/kinks in threads where they don't belong.

But I have been a writer (a paid writer) my entire working life, and I strenuously resist the notion that certain things are "not allowed" to be imagined.

Consider, for example, the incredible popularity of murder mysteries and true-crime podcasts. I actually understand the delicate sensibilities of the latter, after hearing about the terrible murder of someone whose family I knew on a "true-crime" podcast (it turned me off of "true-crime" anything, in fact).

But I would never insist that people not be allowed to create or imagine as they wish.

Warnings are good. People should be courteous and correctly title their posts.

 

[Theatreslut]

I’m sorry you experienced that. I don’t think anyone here is saying that some kinks shouldn’t be allowed.
I think we are on the same page here. Enjoy your kinks just keep the discussion and stories in places where people are consenting to that kink

 

[BlueChamisa]

I’m sorry you experienced that. I don’t think anyone here is saying that some kinks shouldn’t be allowed.
I think we are on the same page here. Enjoy your kinks just keep the discussion and stories in places where people are consenting to that kink

I think that's more than fair.

 

[LMWM321]

I admire you for this

Thanks @Theatreslut

.. ..My wife knows we have a huge libido disparity in our marriage and understands that I need an outlet that is not destructive to our relationship. She's totally fine with my looking at porn and writing erotica (with her as my muse) so long as it's themes are consensual - ie., there is no coercion, violence, misogyny, etc.. AND so long as the porn I look at doesn't take my sexual interests in directions and distances that leave me feeling bored with the kind of sex that she enjoys. And it doesn't. ..Not even close. I'm totally nuts for my wife; even more so now than when we began dating.

 

[liqueur]

More incestors ! Announcing themselves— no, flaunting themselves!—uninvited, on every fetish thread!

Dude, if I wanted to hear about your incest fantasies, I'd be on an incest thread. Just fucking let me enjoy my own kinks, without you trying to push yours down my throat!

 

[briancamdudetenger2018]

lol human nature or just curiousity

 

[LMWM321]

More incestors ! Announcing themselves— no, flaunting themselves!—uninvited, on every fetish thread!

Dude, if I wanted to hear about your incest fantasies, I'd be on an incest thread. Just fucking let me enjoy my own kinks, without you trying to push yours down my throat!

The only way many of us are able to enjoy Literotica's forums and stories, is by avoiding content that is objectively unethical - ie., themes of non-consent, coercion, violence, racism, misogyny, AND incest. You fucking assholes with low-self esteem and no impulse-control who rickroll incest into all unrelated threads make this impossible.

You need to do some serious soul-searching and maybe pursue therapy. And don't tell me your incest fixation is of the "fully consensual" type - eg., a 30 year old woman having sex with her 60 year old father. Bullshit. We see the grotesque captions you fuckers add to gifs and jpgs where the woman having sex is no where near old that old.

 

[BlueChamisa]

The only way many of us are able to enjoy Literotica - the forums and the stories - is by avoiding content that is objectively unethical - ie., themes of non-consent, coercion, violence, racism, misogyny, AND incest.

You fucking assholes with low-self esteem and no impulse-control who rickroll incest into all unrelated threads need to do some serious soul-searching and maybe pursue therapy. And don't tell me your incest fixation is of the "fully consensual" type - eg., a 30 year old woman having sex with her 60 year old father. Bullshit. We see the grotesque captions you fuckers add to gifs and jpgs where the woman having sex is no where near that old.

As noted before, I agree that courteous (at least) people will not inject their desires and interests where they are not wanted.

However, this is a public forum, and I believe it’s inevitable that some of that goes on. I liberally wield that ol’ ignore button when it happens.

Finally, as matters of imagination, I think it’s not really accurate to say something is “objectively unethical.” I can surmise this by the fact that many regular people enjoy fantasies about all the things you cite, and more.

Nobody chooses their sexual fantasies or interests. I often find that we humans defend our particular preferences to the death, though many might find them unappealing or offensive. Yet most of us are quick to label things we don’t like as “wrong” or “immoral.”

Several things on your brief list I find utterly unappealing, even abhorrent. Yet I know normal, decent humans who enjoy them. I have a female relative who takes her fantasies of coercion and violence into her actual consensual play with a “dom” who is not her primary partner — some people call that S&M and let it go at that (it’s really, really not my thing; and I detest actual misogyny so much that I will instantly ignore or mute it when in chats, forums etc. But she loves it — why would that be any business of mine? She is highly successful, married, a great mother to two young teen kids — objectively unethical? I think not.

I also know an older couple who found each other in later life through a genetic matching platform like 23andMe. They are long lost half-siblings and have been in a consensual, loving, sexual relationship now for many years. What is the value of moralizing their situation?

I do not believe thoughts are or can be immoral. Try to control our thoughts and any honest person quickly recognizes that they, just like sounds, sights, smells, sensations, arrive completely unbidden.

Imagination is not fact. Otherwise, every writer of murder mysteries would be behind bars.

Again, I find the ignore button might useful.

 

[liqueur]

@LMWM321 @BlueChamisa

This issue here is not whether or not something is moral or ethical. Nor is it about the separation between fantasy and reality, which is where this thread gets repeatedly detailed. Plenty of room to discuss those issues elsewhere.

The issue here is with people pushing their fantasies onto others without consent. If a thread is a about incest, and labeled as such, then it's easy for people who may have PTSD that is triggered by that content to avoid it. Likewise, for people who object to that content for moral or ethical reasons, and people who just find it distasteful.

But when a thread is about some other kink— say cuckoldry, for example— and clearly labeled as such, and someone in the comments insistently pushes in with their own fantasies about their brother, their mother, their father, their sister, or god help us, their children— there is no way to avoid it. Sure, we can click ‘ignore’ on that person's profile. But the trigger has already been triggered. The trauma, if the reader has been traumatized by real-life events of this type, has already been re-energized. Clicking a button cannot undo that.

Reading or participating in a thread on a topic I enjoy is not consent to hearing about someone else's incest fantasies.

 

[BlueChamisa]

The only way many of us are able to enjoy Literotica's forums and stories, is by avoiding content that is objectively unethical - ie., themes of non-consent, coercion, violence, racism, misogyny, AND incest. You fucking assholes with low-self esteem and no impulse-control who rickroll incest into all unrelated threads make this impossible.

You need to do some serious soul-searching and maybe pursue therapy. And don't tell me your incest fixation is of the "fully consensual" type - eg., a 30 year old woman having sex with her 60 year old father. Bullshit. We see the grotesque captions you fuckers add to gifs and jpgs where the woman having sex is no where near old that old.

I should also point out that it is the consensus of sex researchers, therapists and so on that fantasies, whatever the subject matter, are often or even usually a way for a person to work on or resolve childhood issues and trauma around sexuality.

Not talking here about abuse (though fantasies can develop from such experiences, too), but rather, messaging received about sex or sexuality when young.

Here's one example I've heard from one such researcher:

A straight, married man fantasizes about performing fellatio on another man, typically faceless, while his wife or female significant other watches. This could represent a deep, subconscious desire to please a "father" and win approval from a "mother." It does not represent such a man's actual desire to sexually engage with his parents, but rather is a his erotic mind is working out, say, the legacy of a harsh father and a disapproving mother.

Another, very common, example is that of a strong, successful, feminist woman who fantasizes about being "ravaged" or "taken" (I'll refrain from using more triggering words, but we're in the realm of fantasy coercion). She may have been given terrible, sex-negative messages as a child, told that only "sluts" enjoy sex, all that bullshit, and "being forced" is a way for her to revel in sexual excitement and pleasure without "being responsible" for the actions taking place. Win-win!

The point is, fantasy is NOT reality, and most experts believe it reflects not necessarily desire to carry it out (though sometimes it does) so much as it is a stage for psychodrama. In fact, I know of one sex researcher who serves as an expert witness to the fact that according the data, having a fantasy does not, in fact, indicate that a given person is likely to seek to bring it to fruition (to debunk, for example, an unethical lawyer who presses a spouse to claim that their soon-to-be-ex partner is a "pervert" because of fantasies they shared in their marriage bed).

Given all that, I try to hold my judgments lightly, and keep them to myself. There is plenty that I find unappealing, often viscerally. But recognizing the complexities of human sexuality, I find it deeply touching that many people use fantasies and actual sex to help resolve old wounds — and, as mentioned in previous comment, what business is it of mine?

Also, aversion is a thing, and when I have a strong reaction against something sexual, I am curious about its source.

For example, I'm a bisexual married man, attracted to men in certain sexual ways, but not romantically, affectionally or socially. Indeed, the idea of a man kissing me absolutely repulses me (which is not to shame anyone who loves kissing men!).

I think I know why: I was molested when I was 12 by a man who was always trying to kiss me. I HATED the feel of his scratchy beard anywhere on my skin. I could have gone the other way, loving the feel of being kissed by a man, but instead, I went to aversion. Same with men's feet — that experience left me absolutely repulsed by the idea of ever coming into contact with male feet (I find women's feet often pretty, but the only ones I truly love are my wife's).

 

[BlueChamisa]

@LMWM321 @BlueChamisa

This issue here is not whether or not something is moral or ethical. Nor is it about the separation between fantasy and reality, which is where this thread gets repeatedly detailed. Plenty of room to discuss those issues elsewhere.

The issue here is with people pushing their fantasies onto others without consent. If a thread is a about incest, and labeled as such, then it's easy for people who may have PTSD that is triggered by that content to avoid it. Likewise, for people who object to that content for moral or ethical reasons, and people who just find it distasteful.

But when a thread is about some other kink— say cuckoldry, for example— and clearly labeled as such, and someone in the comments insistently pushes in with their own fantasies about their brother, their mother, their father, their sister, or god help us, their children— there is no way to avoid it. Sure, we can click ‘ignore’ on that person's profile. But the trigger has already been triggered. The trauma, if the reader has been traumatized by real-life events of this type, has already been re-energized. Clicking a button cannot undo that.

Reading or participating in a thread on a topic I enjoy is not consent to hearing about someone else's incest fantasies.

I literally stated my opinions and feelings about people pushing their particular fantasies on people who are not interested. I get it.

I also noted that it's surely tilting at windmills to think one can control such rude, discourteous, perhaps deliberately obnoxious, people on a public forum about sex. I "ignore" quite a few users on this forum; that's how I handle such things.

I think it's unrealistic to think one can visit such a forum and, well, NOT be triggered at least occasionally. I certainly am. That said, I'm very sorry for anyone who experiences that.

I work very hard at recognizing where I have power to influence situations and people, and where I don't. That helps with serenity.

Also, is it not the case, potentially, that any Lit forum user might be triggered by just about anything? In my example above, encountering men kissing definitely triggers a powerful response in me. Someone else who, say, has been deeply wounded by infidelity might be triggered by, say, a hotwife or cuckold post.

In other words, it seems unlikely that the forum could even devise rules that would cover the myriad, practically infinite, potential triggers out there.

 

[BlueChamisa]

@LMWM321 @BlueChamisa

This issue here is not whether or not something is moral or ethical. Nor is it about the separation between fantasy and reality, which is where this thread gets repeatedly detailed. Plenty of room to discuss those issues elsewhere.

The issue here is with people pushing their fantasies onto others without consent. If a thread is a about incest, and labeled as such, then it's easy for people who may have PTSD that is triggered by that content to avoid it. Likewise, for people who object to that content for moral or ethical reasons, and people who just find it distasteful.

But when a thread is about some other kink— say cuckoldry, for example— and clearly labeled as such, and someone in the comments insistently pushes in with their own fantasies about their brother, their mother, their father, their sister, or god help us, their children— there is no way to avoid it. Sure, we can click ‘ignore’ on that person's profile. But the trigger has already been triggered. The trauma, if the reader has been traumatized by real-life events of this type, has already been re-energized. Clicking a button cannot undo that.

Reading or participating in a thread on a topic I enjoy is not consent to hearing about someone else's incest fantasies.

Also, the post to which I was responding used the term "objectively unethical" to refer to fantasies and imagination, which wasn't expressly about consent.

 

[BlueChamisa]

I wish that stories involving incest had a clear label on the top. I really don’t care if it’s your thing. It’s not mine, and I don’t want to get partway into a story and discover it

That's not a bad idea, but I wonder how it could be enforced? Worth exploring, though.