Is throwing MM bisexual stuff into a series too risky?

[Kelliezgirl]

BDSM, when the action is clearly hostile. I don't think "hostile" is exactly right, but I can't think of a more nuanced word.

That might fall into the "author's note" category. I'm not sure if there is a simple tag that would convey what you want.
I'm assuming (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that you mean some sort of dominant relationship where there isn't actual sexual activity? More the thrill of control than more "conventional" sexual thrill?

 

[AG31]

That might fall into the "author's note" category. I'm not sure if there is a simple tag that would convey what you want.
I'm assuming (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that you mean some sort of dominant relationship where there isn't actual sexual activity? More the thrill of control than more "conventional" sexual thrill?

Yes, dominant relationship, with sexual activity, but with consent of varying degrees. I'm delighted that people are taking an interest in the definition. Maybe you could dip into one of my stories just far enough to get a picture of what I'm trying to describe.

 

[AlexBailey]

Keep in mind that “tags” are a search function on the Literotica website for things readers are looking for, not an exclusion function for things they don’t want to see.

If you don’t want to surprise readers with content you think they might not want you should consider an author’s note or forward at the beginning of a story.

 

[AG31]

Keep in mind that “tags” are a search function on the Literotica website for things readers are looking for, not an exclusion function for things they don’t want to see.

If you don’t want to surprise readers with content you think they might not want you should consider an author’s note or forward at the beginning of a story.

I'm a little surprised at what seems to be a consensus that people should be warned about MM activity, if it doesn't happen to be put in the GM category. Should they be warned about everything in the story?

 

[AlexBailey]

I'm a little surprised at what seems to be a consensus that people should be warned about MM activity, if it doesn't happen to be put in the GM category. Should they be warned about everything in the story?

No. I just think it’s up to the author to communicate whatever they want to their target audience. The categories aren’t very good or appropriate for separating the wide variety of story content for some readers’ tastes.

 

[crookedletter]

Tags might not be as effective as they should be for getting the right readers into your stories and deterring the wrong ones. But they are available, they are visible. If a reader has an instant bail "Nope," it's on them to filter for the stories they want and avoid the ones they don't.

 

[AlexBailey]

Tags might not be as effective as they should be for getting the right readers into your stories and deterring the wrong ones. But they are available, they are visible. If a reader has an instant bail "Nope," it's on them to filter for the stories they want and avoid the ones they don't.

My point is that the function of tags is to make story content searchable.

In some cases the content an author tags to attract some readers might not include content that would repel others.

For example; if your story includes mention of a suicide or alcoholism , you might want to provide a warning, but probably not a search tag.

Since the function of tags is to make it easier to find a story, why waste them by using them as a warning?

 

[AG31]

Since the function of tags is to make it easier to find a story, why waste them by using them as a warning?

It took me a while, but now I routinely look at the tags to the right of a particular story before diving in. It's saved me a lot of wasted time.

 

[crookedletter]

My point is that the function of tags is to make story content searchable.

In some cases the content an author tags to attract some readers might not include content that would repel others.

For example; if your story includes mention of a suicide, you might want to provide a warning, but probably not a search tag.

Since the function of tags is to make it easier to find a story, why waste them by using them as a warning?

Suicide seems a far cry from some MM sexual contact. I can see a case for a content/trigger warning if your story has content that would be potentially disturbing for some readers. But if we're talking about kinks, i.e. MM, that seems perfectly reasonable as tag: people are into that, people seek it out. Others can see it in the list of tags, find that it's not what they're looking for, and move along.

 

[cw5523729]

Since the function of tags is to make it easier to find a story, why waste them by using them as a warning?

Is there a reason why they can't service both purposes?

If I see a story tagged with Scat and I'm searching for a Scat story, great.
If I see a story tagged with Scat and I don't want to read a scat story, great.

Many, most, all? stories will typically have more than 1 tag, so it's easy to imagine a story being tagged both with something I searched for and something that is a deal breaker.

edit: basically like @crookedletter said just above me

 

[Lifestyle66]

I have a dilemma. I want to write a series with a great variety of sex, and I'm pansexual. It'll probably mostly be MF, FF, or mixed group sex, but I want to do MM sex, too. (Or, hell, MMM.)

If I throw that into a series that until that point has mostly been mainstream hetero-friendly, will that make a series tank? I know a lot of male readers would tune out instantly, but would it just be a lot or would it be catastrophic?

I know some authors have got to have experience with this very thing.

Honestly, I feel bad even considering censoring my own sexual preferences like this, and it may even approach a moral issue, but I also don't want to build up a readership and then throw that in the garbage.

As you and others have already point out, "it depends".

Tags don't matter. Whether or not you include a tag for "gay", "male bi-sexual", "MM sex", or however you want to describe it, readers don't see the tags unless they look for them! Tags are for searching, NOT for warning of a story's content.

Some authors use an "Authors Note" at the very beginning of a story to warn readers of the upcoming content which they think might trigger a negative reaction. I've seen some stories in Loving Wives which begin by stating "If you are offended by consensual non-monogamy, then this story is not for you." Some of the LW audience might read that warning but still click to the end and leave a 1-star. But you can't stop the haters, merely minimize the damage by deflecting a few.

The only way to "advise" or "warn" a reader of the potential content is to either state so in the story's small description line, OR place it in the most appropriate category. If you're worried about the male readers' reactions, then placing that one chapter in "Gale Male" category would be the best warning to others.

But my attitude is "Write want YOU want, and to hell with any judgmental and overly sensitive readers."

 

[AlexBailey]

Suicide seems a far cry from some MM sexual contact. I can see a case for a content/trigger warning if your story has content that would be potentially disturbing for some readers. But if we're talking about kinks, i.e. MM, that seems perfectly reasonable as tag: people are into that, people seek it out. Others can see it in the list of tags, find that it's not what they're looking for, and move along.

Well, sure.

MM content is something a reader might search for, and I understand that this is the specific thing mentioned in this thread, but it still doesn’t reflect the design purpose of the ten keywords you can use as tags for a story.

Suicide, alcoholism, addiction, depression… if you use those as some of your ten tags you miss out on tags that could attract other readers.

 

[cw5523729]

I've seen some stories in Loving Wives which begin by stating "If you are offended by consensual non-monogamy, then this story is not for you."

That's both funny and sad as a "trigger warning" on a fucking erotic literature site

 

[ElectricBlue]

I agree with this post. I didn't react lest @ElectricBlue got the wrong idea about why I was laughing but that line was funny AF

Which means you got my tongue in cheek point. Fear of MM is a massive undercurrent here on Lit.

If you make the slightest mention in a title, readers will run a million miles to stay away. I have a successful story here, currently with 53k views and a swathe of comments. The second chapter has the subtitle, "Amanda and her men get together" and the views are only 11k. Yet the third chapter in the same series, 23k.

In that second chapter they got a blatant hint, so didn't go near it, but in the other series, the chapter was very clearly tagged, yet the views kicked up as did the score. That's always amused me - it's one of my standing jokes, "They'll read it twice to make sure".

I've also got a story where I wrote a major sex scene as man on man, when it could just as easily been man and woman, as a deliberate experiment, to see what would happen. I got this wonderful comment:

You captured the essence of the genre so well! I found it a bit much with the male bisexual element though. Not my cup of tea. The rest - well what can I say? This was well written, on point, and certainly captivating. The attention to detail and idiomatic descriptors were so Spillane! Another five stars.

Despite his reluctance, I still got the five stars! Means the rest of it was brilliant, right?!

The answer to my experiment? I reckon about 0.30 on the score - a bunch of readers giving the story a 4 because of the, "Ooo, don't upset me," whereas if it had been a heterosexual scene, it would have nailed a 5 (the rest of the encounters were Dan with the fabulous Ruby, and that was okay).

The story also got this comment:

Oh. My. God. That was fucking perfect. I live for bisex and this did not disappoint, as well as being perfect private dick. I hope to someday write something this good, but for now, I bow to the Master.

which just goes to show you can please all people some of the time and some people all of the time. Other commenters got exactly what I was doing, especially several from the AH, which was nice.

It's one of those weird things about Lit, where many folk are so keen on their mom, but the merest suggestion of another man... That's always struck me as odd. Very Freudian. Haha .

 

[Lifestyle66]

That's both funny and sad as a "trigger warning" on a fucking erotic literature site

Well, I can see the reasoning behind all sides.

Many authors here have the attitude "I'm writing my stories for FREE, you're not paying for it, so I DESERVE a 5-star rating!"

But the reader IS paying for your story by giving the author their time! The old saying "Time is money" applies to the readers investing their time in your story, versus finding another which they might like better.

The reader is looking for entertainment. If you post a story title and description to catch their attention, then in the middle of the story throw in a "surprise, I'll bet you weren't expecting THAT!" be careful with what that surprise is. If the author deliberately throws it into a category to shock THOSE readers, the author gets what they deserve!

 

[cw5523729]

Well, I can see the reasoning behind all sides.

Many authors here have the attitude "I'm writing my stories for FREE, you're not paying for it, so I DESERVE a 5-star rating!"

Totally unrelated tangent. I post elsewhere where the scores run 1-10 and I feel satisfied with a solid score of 7.5-7.75 there but when the same story here gets 4.25, I'm sad and despondent. And I'm good enough at grade 6 math to know that's irrational.

 

[Lifestyle66]

Totally unrelated tangent. I post elsewhere where the scores run 1-10 and I feel satisfied with a solid score of 7.5-7.75 there but when the same story here gets 4.25, I'm sad and despondent. And I'm good enough at grade 6 math to know that's irrational.

I only post to this site. And for me, I've attracted so many 1-bombers that my stories always start out at 2.0 or below for the first hours. Any story with an eventual average rating above a 3.0 after two weeks is a win! That's why ratings don't bother me. I'm a shitty writer, and proud of it.

I don't get sad or despondent. When it comes to the 1-bombers and hateful comments, I say: "Bring it on!" I once earned the comment on a story: "EAT SHIT AND DIE!" (The site admins deleted that one, but I was proud of it!)

 

[CalBishForNow]

Totally unrelated tangent. I post elsewhere where the scores run 1-10 and I feel satisfied with a solid score of 7.5-7.75 there but when the same story here gets 4.25, I'm sad and despondent. And I'm good enough at grade 6 math to know that's irrational.

Yeah, the site's norm for ratings seems weird to me. Grade inflation is unfortunate. Look at the stars under the story; it says 3 is "average". So why should we be disappointed by that? More to the point, why is a rating of 3 or lower so rare? Not to make every thread about LW, but sometimes it seems to me like that's the only category where ratings are logical and meaningful and every other category is incomprehensible.

 

[cw5523729]

I only post to this site. And for me, I've attracted so many 1-bombers that my stories always start out at 2.0 or below for the first hours. Any story with an eventual average rating above a 3.0 after two weeks is a win! That's why ratings don't bother me. I'm a shitty writer, and proud of it.

I don't get sad or despondent. When it comes to the 1-bombers and hateful comments, I say: "Bring it on!"

Mine are the exact opposite. Invariably the first few are always 5s, followed by a 1 somewhere, then a mix of 4s and 5s.

I once earned the comment on a story: "EAT SHIT AND DIE!" (The site admins deleted that one, but I was proud of it!)

now I know where the bar is set that I need to aspire to lol

 

[cw5523729]

Yeah, the site's norm for ratings seems weird to me. Grade inflation is unfortunate. Look at the stars under the story; it says 3 is "average". So why should we be disappointed by that? More to the point, why is a rating of 3 or lower so rare? Not to make every thread about LW, but sometimes it seems to me like that's the only category where ratings are logical and meaningful and every other category is incomprehensible.

I look at a rating of 3 the same way I look at something on Amazon with 3 stars: "essentially garbage"

To be fair, if you read a story and have to choose: do you give it 5 declaring it equal to the best story you've ever read? Or 4 meaning it's "ok, kinda meh"

On that scale, my story is rated way, way higher than it should be so I guess the 5 star scale works in my favor

 

[AG31]

"Amanda and her men get together"

But isn't this ambiguous? Or doesn't it matter? If it's a bunch of frat guys having fun with the same woman, it's one thing. If it's a threesome with the two men having sex with each other, it's quite another. True?

 

[Underrick]

I have a dilemma. I want to write a series with a great variety of sex, and I'm pansexual. It'll probably mostly be MF, FF, or mixed group sex, but I want to do MM sex, too. (Or, hell, MMM.)

If I throw that into a series that until that point has mostly been mainstream hetero-friendly, will that make a series tank? I know a lot of male readers would tune out instantly, but would it just be a lot or would it be catastrophic?

I know some authors have got to have experience with this very thing.

Honestly, I feel bad even considering censoring my own sexual preferences like this, and it may even approach a moral issue, but I also don't want to build up a readership and then throw that in the garbage.

Write what you want to write. If people like what you've shared so far, they will probably stay with you. You may lose a few readers, but if you tag the stories as bi or gay, you will probably gain a few more readers as well.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

Is there a reason why they can't service both purposes?

If I see a story tagged with Scat and I'm searching for a Scat story, great.
If I see a story tagged with Scat and I don't want to read a scat story, great.

Many, most, all? stories will typically have more than 1 tag, so it's easy to imagine a story being tagged both with something I searched for and something that is a deal breaker.

edit: basically like @crookedletter said just above me

Regardless of ones intentions with tags(I tag to attract), they will always serve dual purpose; attraction and repulsion.

 

[Britva415]

Since the function of tags is to make it easier to find a story, why waste them by using them as a warning?

That isn't the only function, though.

I'm just one data point but I for one absolutely look at tags after clicking a story title and before reading it.

 

[cw5523729]

That isn't the only function, though.

I'm just one data point but I for one absolutely look at tags after clicking a story title and before reading it.

Same here. For that matter, I wonder how many readers there are on Lit who are both equally turned on by every possible genre and coupling while simultaneously having such an open mind that they are not turned off by any possible kink imaginable. Yes, not even that one. Or that one either. Oh God, that one just made me wince and grab my crotch. Or th- wait, who even thought of that fucking thing?