The Problem with Literotica

[SmilingLez]

It's possible. But that's also something that could be circumvented, if not outright fixed. Imagine if we had confirmation from Laurel that there's a random, unpredictable glitch that can affect submissions. Imagine if she at least worked around the problem by sending us an automatic notification, something similar to what already exists - the rejection notifications.

Such a notification could simply let us know "Your story has been flagged for something and is awaiting human moderation." In the absence of approval or such a notification within, say, 24-48 hours, we would then know for sure that our story was affected by the glitch and that we should resubmit rather than wait three weeks before attempting it.

If they can't reproduce the issue (a black hole where even Laurel/Manu doesn't know that stories have been submitted), they can't really acknowledge it or provide meaningful updates. What would they say? "Sometimes the system works and sometimes it doesn't, and we don't know why"?

 

[AwkwardlySet]

If they can't reproduce the issue, they can't really acknowledge it or provide meaningful updates. What would they say? "Sometimes the system works and sometimes it doesn't, and we don't know why"?

Why not? It would help to have a confirmation from them that it can happen, and their best guess at why. The solution I proposed would help even more.

 

[PennyThompson]

I'd assume that there's a whitelist - a list of authors whose submissions barely get a glance before being approved. There should also be a "greylist", a list of authors who are yet to prove they are "trustworthy," and a blacklist - a list of authors who've already been "caught" breaking Literotica's guidelines.

In favor of this theory, there is almost certainly a whitelist fo commenters, where once you've made enough non-problematic comments on stories without writing a comment that breaks the site rules, your comments stop being moderated and get posted instantly.

And it doesn't seem to be an automated switch, I got whitelisted for comments after about three months and maybe 25 story comments, some people seem to get whitelisted faster than that and some people seem to never get whitelisted and their story comments always go through approval.

But in disfavor of this theory is the fact that hugely established writers with hundreds of stories and tens of thousands of followers (and presumably big drivers of reader clicks and ad revenue) have also gotten caught in pending purgatory in the last few months, like SilkStockingLover. If anyone was on a theoretical story publishing whitelist, it would surely be them?

 

[dirk2024]

In favor of this theory, there is almost certainly a whitelist fo commenters, where once you've made enough non-problematic comments on stories without writing a comment that breaks the site rules, your comments stop being moderated and get posted instantly.

And it doesn't seem to be an automated switch, I got whitelisted for comments after about three months and maybe 25 story comments, some people seem to get whitelisted faster than that and some people seem to never get whitelisted and their story comments always go through approval.

But in disfavor of this theory is the fact that hugely established writers with hundreds of stories and tens of thousands of followers (and presumably big drivers of reader clicks and ad revenue) have also gotten caught in pending purgatory in the last few months, like SilkStockingLover. If anyone was on a theoretical story publishing whitelist, it would surely be them?

Or not. I've been a member here for 18 months. I haven't received a notice that any of my comments have been reported for content. Yet I still have the "waiting for moderation" status.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

In favor of this theory, there is almost certainly a whitelist fo commenters, where once you've made enough non-problematic comments on stories without writing a comment that breaks the site rules, your comments stop being moderated and get posted instantly.

And it doesn't seem to be an automated switch, I got whitelisted for comments after about three months and maybe 25 story comments, some people seem to get whitelisted faster than that and some people seem to never get whitelisted and their story comments always go through approval.

But in disfavor of this theory is the fact that hugely established writers with hundreds of stories and tens of thousands of followers (and presumably big drivers of reader clicks and ad revenue) have also gotten caught in pending purgatory in the last few months, like SilkStockingLover. If anyone was on a theoretical story publishing whitelist, it would surely be them?

Well, it could be that SSL is on the whitelist, yet one or two of her stories were affected by the glitch, and she simply didn't know she was supposed to resubmit to get out of pending hell. What happened to Em supports that theory.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Or not. I've been a member here for 18 months. I haven't received a notice that any of my comments have been reported for content. Yet I still have the "waiting for moderation" status.

It's one more instance of obscure privileges.

To be honest with you, I'm whitelisted for comments - they appear instantly when I post them, but I know how frustrating it can be when you can't even reply to comments on your own story without waiting for moderation, which could take full 24 hours even before this crisis. God only knows how long it takes now.

 

[PennyThompson]

The problem is governance, and communication is a sub-problem.

Since the site has been around for decades and grown so much, it obviously has succeeded, with the support of many fans and much volunteer labour. Just as clearly, it can’t last forever. We don’t know if the Kodak moment of no return has already happened because we can’t see inside the back room of the shop, but there are enough red flags to make us worry.

Yeah, and both the things that make Lit good and the things that make Lit frustrating are all tied to that same governance structure.

The benefit of having the entire site owned and operated by one or two people is that they seem able and content to make a living with just a bit of unobtrusive advertising, and have no shareholder motivation to exponentially increase revenue every quarter.

A larger team might be able to update the software more frequently, and approve stories faster, but more bodies to work means more bodies to pay, and the temptation to monetize and enshittify grows.

But the downside is that the human limitations and human whims of those one or two people can become bottlenecks to adaptation to changing needs... Laurel has hinted in the rare forum post that her eyesight isn't what it once was, and the daily work of maintaining the site is harder than it used to be... I have to wonder if she's starting to think about a retirement of sorts.

The only sustainable solution I could think of is either:

• Pass daily control of the site on to a trusted group of people, Willy Wonka style, and hope that the inheritors maintain the general philosophy and business model of the site going forward.
• Develop some kind of shared governance model, like Wikipedia, with a clear non-profit charter and a system in place for resolving leadership disputes.

If something like that did NOT happen if and when Laurel retires, then the remaining options that I can think of are:

• The site gets bought out by another entity, like PornHub or something, gets folded into a larger operation, and is monetized in ways that would make this a much worse place. Or...
• Literotica shuts down.

 

[Feathered2Orgasm]

I had some luck opening the site in Private Browsing (or Secret mode, or Incognito mode, or whatever).

I spend the entire time in Secret more, or Incognito mode, or whatever!
The problem is not opening the site, it's going from one place in the forum to another.

 

[SmilingLez]

It's possible. But that's also something that could be circumvented, if not outright fixed. Imagine if we had confirmation from Laurel that there's a random, unpredictable glitch that can affect submissions. Imagine if she at least worked around the problem bywhich sending us an automatic notification, something similar to what already exists - the rejection notifications.

Such a notification could simply let us know "Your story has been flagged for something and is awaiting human moderation." In the absence of approval or such a notification within, say, 24-48 hours, we would then know for sure that our story was affected by the glitch and that we should resubmit rather than wait three weeks before attempting it.

You are assuming that a notification (which would have be hard coded) into an already buggy cms would perform correctly, i.e. locating stories that are in pending purgatory and notifying those authors.

 

[SamanthaBehgs]

There is 1 other possibility, it is a glitch that cannot be duplicated with consistency. Therefore Manu/Laurel really can't say with absolute certainty that the CMS is buggy. My non erotic story has been in pending purgatory now for 18 days

I freaking hate those sorts of bugs. It's like a random gremlin running around with a hammer but intentionally not hitting in the same place or in the same way twice. Freaking gremlins.

 

[SmilingLez]

I freaking hate those sorts of bugs. It's like a random gremlin running around with a hammer but intentionally not hitting in the same place or in the same way twice. Freaking gremlins.

To me it's more like whack a mole

 

[SamanthaBehgs]

To me it's more like whack a mole

That's how you try to murder the gremlin.

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

https://forum.literotica.com/threads/who-stole-all-the-fun-threads.1637177/


Aha. Found one.



Everybody, free drinks.

 

[Actingup]

The only sustainable solution I could think of is either:

• Pass daily control of the site on to a trusted group of people, Willy Wonka style, and hope that the inheritors maintain the general philosophy and business model of the site going forward.
• Develop some kind of shared governance model, like Wikipedia, with a clear non-profit charter and a system in place for resolving leadership disputes.

If something like that did NOT happen if and when Laurel retires, then the remaining options that I can think of are:

• The site gets bought out by another entity, like PornHub or something, gets folded into a larger operation, and is monetized in ways that would make this a much worse place. Or...
• Literotica shuts down.

I agree with all the bits of yours (so to speak) that I haven't quoted. I did wonder if there was an option of a literal inheritance. But I don't anything about their personal lives, and I'm not sure I want to go there in terms of discussion. If the site continues, it continues, but it's probably always going to be a good move to keep personal copies of stories and contact details for the people you'd really want to stay in touch with.

 

[SamanthaBehgs]

https://forum.literotica.com/threads/who-stole-all-the-fun-threads.1637177/


Aha. Found one.



Everybody, free drinks.

I'm too afraid if I start a thread about how we should all gush all over each other to improve everyone's day that it will be taken the wrong way. Or maybe it's the right way for Lit? See, I can't even decide which way is right.

 

[IWroteThis]

You are assuming that a notification (which would have be hard coded) into an already buggy cms would perform correctly, i.e. locating stories that are in pending purgatory and notifying those authors.

Perhaps I'm the one who misunderstood, but I thought they meant it would send out notices to those that had been flagged for further review, so you would know you caught the bug if you didn't either get a notice or have it post within a couple of days.
If it could figure out which stories were lost to the bug, it could simply fix them.

 

[SamanthaBehgs]

Perhaps I'm the one who misunderstood, but I thought they meant it would send out notices to those that had been flagged for further review, so you would know you caught the bug if you didn't either get a notice or have it post within a couple of days.
If it could figure out which stories were lost to the bug, it could simply fix them.

Do you mean a status that isn't "pending," "published," or "sent back," but instead also includes "needs additional review" or something like that?

 

[ChloeTzang]

The reall issue is communication. We're all just floundering around in the dark taking wild guesses, which is a little frustrating.

 

[Katie_Mae]

Well, since there's nothing else to be said except speculation, I'd assume that there's a whitelist - a list of authors whose submissions barely get a glance before being approved.

I've heard a lot of speculation over submissions, most of which doesn't meet my own experiences. But, if there's a whitelist, I'm on it and have been since my first story and did nothing to deserve it.

With a few exceptions, all my stories have been approved within 8-12 hours. I often submit in the evening and then don't check until the next day, 8-12 hours later, so it's hard to know the exact time it takes. But when I've submitted earlier in the day I've had within 3 hours, 12 minutes etc. (Common speculation is 2-3 days is "normal", my "normal" is much shorter)

The above includes my first submission (common speculation is first story takes longer), my first submission did not take longer.

Almost all of my stories are non-con. (Common speculation is non-con stories take longer, but mine take shorter than is commonly assumed as normal)

The only story I can recall which took the "normal" 2-3 days was the one I posted in another category. Also, it was my shortest story (750 words). I've heard speculation that longer stories take longer, again, doesn't align with my experience. My 12 minute approval was on a story longer than 10k.

I had a story take a month once. Ages ago. Last year? Not part of the "new problem."

I don't really have a point, just posting reinforcement that we really don't know what's "normal." I've even heard speculation that your time zone has an impact on submission length and, you know, who knows?

Is it really true that only two people personally read every single story submitted? That must be an overwhelming task. If true, I need to waste less of their time lol...

I once submitted a story over 10k long. I got up, grabbed a snack, sat down and saw the story had been approved. 12 minutes had passed. Based on this I'm sure that not all stories are fully read by a human.

 

[SmilingLez]

The reall issue is communication. We're all just floundering around in the dark taking wild guesses, which is a little frustrating.

Agreed; an acknowledgment would be nice.

 

[MythicMind]

I think developing a process for establishing "Trusted Author" status would have the biggest positive impact. Trusted Authors would be able to publish their stories instantly, along with their own-story comments. This would take a significant percentage of the daily work load off of Laurel while increasing the general satisfaction of the more prolific writers.

Off the top of my head, this could be given to writers with at least ten published stories and no more than one returned story within that batch of ten. Maybe they could "sign" an attestation saying they have read and agree to the publishing terms. Laurel could also do a review of their stories and decide for herself if they meet a certain proficiency standard.

Would some TAs abuse this or submit bad stories? Probably. But members could report any given story for violating the terms, and the writer could then be given a warning or TA-status could be rescinded. This would make for a strong incentive not to violate the terms.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I've heard a lot of speculation over submissions, most of which doesn't meet my own experiences. But, if there's a whitelist, I'm on it and have been since my first story and did nothing to deserve it.

With a few exceptions, all my stories have been approved within 8-12 hours. I often submit in the evening and then don't check until the next day, 8-12 hours later, so it's hard to know the exact time it takes. But when I've submitted earlier in the day I've had within 3 hours, 12 minutes etc. (Common speculation is 2-3 days is "normal", my "normal" is much shorter)

The above includes my first submission (common speculation is first story takes longer), my first submission did not take longer.

Almost all of my stories are non-con. (Common speculation is non-con stories take longer, but mine take shorter than is commonly assumed as normal)

The only story I can recall which took the "normal" 2-3 days was the one I posted in another category. Also, it was my shortest story (750 words). I've heard speculation that longer stories take longer, again, doesn't align with my experience. My 12 minute approval was on a story longer than 10k.

I had a story take a month once. Ages ago. Last year? Not part of the "new problem."

I don't really have a point, just posting reinforcement that we really don't know what's "normal." I've even heard speculation that your time zone has an impact on submission length and, you know, who knows?


I once submitted a story over 10k long. I got up, grabbed a snack, sat down and saw the story had been approved. 12 minutes had passed. Based on this I'm sure that not all stories are fully read by a human.

Thank you for all these data points. They sure make one wonder whether there's any sensible pattern there.

 

[ronde]

I think developing a process for establishing "Trusted Author" status would have the biggest positive impact. Trusted Authors would be able to publish their stories instantly, along with their own-story comments. This would take a significant percentage of the daily work load off of Laurel while increasing the general satisfaction of the more prolific writers.

Off the top of my head, this could be given to writers with at least ten published stories and no more than one returned story within that batch of ten. Maybe they could "sign" an attestation saying they have read and agree to the publishing terms. Laurel could also do a review of their stories and decide for herself if they meet a certain proficiency standard.

Would some TAs abuse this or submit bad stories? Probably. But members could report any given story for violating the terms, and the writer could then be given a warning or TA-status could be rescinded. This would make for a strong incentive not to violate the terms.

This idea would not work for one specific reason. I continue to read on this very forum posts like, "I didn't violate the rules. All I did was...". Some people enjoy stretching the rules until they break, and a "Trusted Author" status would allow them to do that. Yes, a violation could be reported and the content taken down, but as we continue to learn about social media posts and other on-line content, once it's there, it's there forever in some format or on another site. When I served as a site administrator for another similar site, I sat this time and time again. The author would attempt to "sneak" around the site rules and the most prolific authors were the worst offenders.

Most people on this forum seem to not understand that Literotica is a globally accessed site and therefore must operate under the myriad of laws in countries other than the US. In some of those countries, just one story that violates that particular country's laws could result in Literotica being banned. In other cases, it could mean that Literotica's owners could be criminally liable for publishing illegal content. If you do not believe that, just take a look at one European country's recent statement that it is legal for that country to prosecute people in the US who make social media posts that violate that country's laws.

 

[MythicMind]

This idea would not work for one specific reason. I continue to read on this very forum posts like, "I didn't violate the rules. All I did was...". Some people enjoy stretching the rules until they break, and a "Trusted Author" status would allow them to do that. Yes, a violation could be reported and the content taken down, but as we continue to learn about social media posts and other on-line content, once it's there, it's there forever in some format or on another site. When I served as a site administrator for another similar site, I sat this time and time again. The author would attempt to "sneak" around the site rules and the most prolific authors were the worst offenders.

Most people on this forum seem to not understand that Literotica is a globally accessed site and therefore must operate under the myriad of laws in countries other than the US. In some of those countries, just one story that violates that particular country's laws could result in Literotica being banned. In other cases, it could mean that Literotica's owners could be criminally liable for publishing illegal content. If you do not believe that, just take a look at one European country's recent statement that it is legal for that country to prosecute people in the US who make social media posts that violate that country's laws.

The reason this objection doesn't work is that Laurel maintains the same ability to take down violating stories. Sure, it might be up for a few hours, but why bother knowing that it will only result in losing their TA status? There could be other limits in place, like requiring 24 hours between new stories, which would give any given violating story time to be discovered and taken down. I think the benefits would vastly outweigh these costs.

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

"The Problem ..."

Implication of 'one'; inaccurate.