Electric cars.

[HumpDayHoratio]

So you're disputing your own article.
EV growth is outpacing non-EV growth.


So you're moving the goal posts.

Got it.

Sure you “got it”…

EV sales are up, they will be again this year. Next year after all Uncle Sugar’s incentives dry up, they’ll most likely go down. That’s how theses things work.

Got it?

 

[ll74]

Sure you “got it”…

EV sales are up, they will be again this year. Next year after all Uncle Sugar’s incentives dry up, they’ll most likely go down. That’s how theses things work.

Got it?

Yes, you failed to refute my statement and want to save face by pivoting.

Got it.

 

[AlexBailey]

That’s the crux. All these positive gains have been largely due to incentives. I get it…the virtu signals were clear, but ultimately the market will bear out where EV’s fall. Make no mistake, they’re here for good, but can we at least all have an honest assessment of what they are and where they’re headed.

Be honest. Really.

How much does the US government incentivize the petroleum industry?

 

[HumpDayHoratio]

Fuck that!

We need to burn every last drop of pet-troll-ieum before the domestic MAGA dumbfucks will consider ‘lectricity. That shit is nothing but a commie plot to grab control of ever aspect of our lives!

You’re not going to “burn every last drop of pet-troll-ileum” in your lifetime, your kids lifetime, or for eons to come. There is literally an unlimited supply of Oil and reserves. Things like; Proven Reserves, and Peak Oil, are terms you don’t hear everyday. Ask yourself why.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

Sure you “got it”…

EV sales are up, they will be again this year. Next year after all Uncle Sugar’s incentives dry up, they’ll most likely go down. That’s how theses things work.

Got it?

It should also be noted that EV growth is coming from a small baseline. The percentage growth in EVs comes from a small number of units.

 

[HumpDayHoratio]

Yes, you failed to refute my statement and want to save face by pivoting.

Got it.

There’s nothing to save face about. EV sales are up by percentage. Auto makers are finding the actual demand just isn’t what they thought. I think we’ve hashed this out.

IF you must, Claim victory! You win! Facts be damned.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

Be honest. Really.

How much does the US government incentivize the petroleum industry?

Federal and state governments actually tax gasoline consumption and they don’t give tax credits for buying gas powered vehicles.

 

[ll74]

There’s nothing to save face about. EV sales are up by percentage. Auto makers are finding the actual demand just isn’t what they thought. I think we’ve hashed this out.

EV growth is outpacing non -EV growth.

That was my statement.

IF you must, Claim victory! You win! Facts be damned.

You were the one who objected to my statement. That isn't my fault.

The facts are in the present, not the future

 

[HumpDayHoratio]

It should also be noted that EV growth is coming from a small baseline. The percentage growth in EVs comes from a small number of units.

Here’s some good outhouse reading…

Some odd demographics…70% male, 30% Female? The majority are leased? I wouldn’t have guessed that. That accounts for sales vs drivers.

Ultimately, it comes down to the virtue signals though. Environmental Concerns. Propaganda. It works.

 

[AlexBailey]

You’re not going to “burn every last drop of pet-troll-ileum” in your lifetime, your kids lifetime, or for eons to come. There is literally an unlimited supply of Oil and reserves. Things like; Proven Reserves, and Peak Oil, are terms you don’t hear everyday. Ask yourself why.

Oh? How long does it take for organic matter to naturally turn into petroleum?

I get it. You can’t qualify it so you think the supply is endless.

You’re right that it won’t actually run out. What does happen and has been happening is that the easiest oil to harvest gets harvested first, then the cost rises as pumping, digging, locating, processing, and delivering become less efficient.

Meanwhile people who understand that it’s dangerous to run an engine in a closed garage can’t grasp the concept that emissions aren’t good when they settle over population centers either.

 

[HumpDayHoratio]

EV growth is outpacing non -EV growth.

That was my statement.


You were the one who objected to my statement. That isn't my fault.

The facts are in the present, not the future

Nobody “objected” to anything. It’s a fun discussion. Again…claim your prize and go seagull another thread.

 

[HumpDayHoratio]

Oh? How long does it take for organic matter to naturally turn into petroleum?

I get it. You can’t qualify it so you think the supply is endless.

You’re right that it won’t actually run out. What does happen and has been happening is that the easiest oil to harvest gets harvested first, then the cost rises as pumping, digging, locating, processing, and delivering become less efficient.

Meanwhile people who understand that it’s dangerous to run an engine in a closed garage can’t grasp the concept that emissions aren’t good when they settle over population centers either.

How about you do your own research. I’ve provided just one of literally thousands of studies.

 

[AlexBailey]

Federal and state governments actually tax gasoline consumption and they don’t give tax credits for buying gas powered vehicles.

So you don’t believe petroleum producers get tax incentives, sweetheart deals on public land leases, government investment in infrastructure, government spending on clean up?

(Clue: government spending equals taxpayer money. Tax credits and deductions equal government prioritizing certain industries.)

https://thefactcoalition.org/report/oil-and-gas-tax-subsidies/

 

[AlexBailey]

How about you do your own research. I’ve provided just one of literally thousands of studies.

I’m encouraging you to look into it since you make it obvious you don’t understand.

I can’t force feed you, but I can bring it to your attention.

 

[ll74]

Nobody “objected” to anything. It’s a fun discussion

Lol

Right

Maybe in a niche segment, but not overall. The beauty of stats is you can make them say just about anything that supports your argument. The problem is…those Pesky facts…

I know you have trouble running that “the google, “ but I’m here to help…

You’re welcome.

 

[HumpDayHoratio]

I do the leg work you lazy furries just wont do.

 

[ll74]

I do the leg work you lazy furries just wont do.

Oil is finite.

 

[HumpDayHoratio]

I’m encouraging you to look into it since you make it obvious you don’t understand.

I can’t force feed you, but I can bring it to your attention.

Tell the class you didn’t read the link I posted to your question. Some people…you just can’t reach.

 

[HumpDayHoratio]

Oil is finite.

Another that just believes the propaganda.

If it’s finite, then, when will we run out? We were supposed to run out years ago. As I directed the other bleating furry above. Read that link…you just might learn something.

 

[ll74]

Another that just believes the propaganda.

That's a fact.

If it’s finite, then, when will we run out? We were supposed to run out years ago. As I directed the other bleating furry above. Read that link…you just might learn something.

As long as we extract oil, eventually we will not have any left to extract.

Fracking has increased the yield of extraction not the volume of available oil

 

[AlexBailey]

I do the leg work you lazy furries just wont do.

Regurgitating petroleum industry propaganda isn’t “doing research.”

You find headlines but you don’t display an understanding of what you post.

“Hidden” in the text of your “endless reserves” link is:

“Technological advancements play a significant role in unlocking previously inaccessible oil resources. Fracking, or hydraulic fracturing, for example, has revolutionized the extraction of shale oil and gas, dramatically increasing available oil supplies in some regions. Similarly, improved deep-sea drilling technologies have allowed access to previously unreachable offshore reserves. However, these advancements often come with increased environmental concerns.”

All of these technologies and strategies for extracting harder to reach petroleum show that it’s getting more difficult to harvest reserves efficiently and safely. The petroleum industry relies on things like nondisclosure agreements to prevent the public from knowing what chemicals go into the ground and potentially contaminate water tables in the quest for petroleum profits.

You’re a useful idiot for the petroleum companies.

 

[HumpDayHoratio]

So you don’t believe petroleum producers get tax incentives, sweetheart deals on public land leases, government investment in infrastructure, government spending on clean up?

(Clue: government spending equals taxpayer money. Tax credits and deductions equal government prioritizing certain industries.)

Nobody has argued that point. Do you just make things up in debates? Of course they do. EV’s incentives had a sunset provision, but I think certain states still give them.

If you want to argue that petro companies don’t deserve subsidies, that’s fine, although I know it’s way more complex than what you’re presenting here.

 

[AlexBailey]

Nobody has argued that point. Do you just make things up in debates? Of course they do. EV’s incentives had a sunset provision, but I think certain states still give them.

If you want to argue that petro companies don’t deserve subsidies, that’s fine, although I know it’s way more complex than what you’re presenting here.

Now you’re changing your argument.

This was originally about EV’s not being competitive because they get government tax incentives. I’m saying that the petroleum industry gets more tax incentives.

If there were no incentives for either industry, EV’s would be better than just competitive. They use energy more efficiently than internal combustion vehicles.

Solar and renewables are going to continue to be competitive even without the tax breaks simply because the cost of everything associated with petroleum extraction plus the profits taken by the industry make petroleum more expensive than renewables - especially when you consider all costs, including cleanup and pollution expenses.

 

[HumpDayHoratio]

Regurgitating petroleum industry propaganda isn’t “doing research.”

You find headlines but you don’t display an understanding of what you post.

“Hidden” in the text of your “endless reserves” link is:

“Technological advancements play a significant role in unlocking previously inaccessible oil resources. Fracking, or hydraulic fracturing, for example, has revolutionized the extraction of shale oil and gas, dramatically increasing available oil supplies in some regions. Similarly, improved deep-sea drilling technologies have allowed access to previously unreachable offshore reserves. However, these advancements often come with increased environmental concerns.”

All of these technologies and strategies for extracting harder to reach petroleum show that it’s getting more difficult to harvest reserves efficiently and safely. The petroleum industry relies on things like nondisclosure agreements to prevent the public from knowing what chemicals go into the ground and potentially contaminate water tables in the quest for petroleum profits.

You’re a useful idiot for the petroleum companies.

Cherry picking. I know Fracking is a dirty word to you furries, but it’s revolutionized the industry. I’m going to let you in on some more little tidbits. There are reserve wells that have been dug in the North Sea since the 70’ and 80’s that have been capped and just waiting to be used.

The point is. We’re not running out of oil. Oil is limitless. The good news for you is that extracting that oil is becoming more technologically advanced. Just as the EV market will inevitably advance. The need for oil will come down, but there will always be a need.

Believe it or not, I’m not exactly all for fracking for fracking’s sake. It like everything else will “evolve.”

 

[HumpDayHoratio]

Now you’re changing your argument.

This was originally about EV’s not being competitive because they get government tax incentives. I’m saying that the petroleum industry gets more tax incentives.

If there were no incentives for either industry, EV’s would be better than just competitive. They use energy more efficiently than internal combustion vehicles.

Like any good debate, we can move on from one topic to another…why is this so hard for y’all to understand?

If EV’s are more efficient, then you don’t have to worry. We’ll all be running out and buying one. To circle back to the original topic though, auto makers just aren’t seeing it your way.