Moral Inhibitions

[Auden James]

Have you ever had scruples about writing a story? If so, what did you do to overcome them—or did your bad conscience win?

And, in general, what is the right thing to do in such a situation? Stop the writing? Rewrite the story to make it a better moral fit?

 

[AwkwardMD]

It's hard to rspond to this without knowing specifics.

I've worked on 3 major stories that were largely someone elses kink, and I was either just the co-author who agreed to help or the beta reader and editor. They get *real* dark. In all three cases I just did my part and tried to be helpful for my friends.

Black Sheep is bad enough, but it’s really just one intense scene. The other two, though, I honestly don't know which one is worse (Dark Horse or Isolated Property). I have very mixed feelings about them.

That being said, though, some people very much like and appreciate those stories, and that seems like enough for me

 

[SimonDoom]

No, I never have.

There are two reasons. One is that I take a very broad and liberal view of what people should be able to fantasize about and write about. I'm almost incapable of being squicked.

The other is that I've never had any interest in writing stories about the very few areas where I DO have some scruples or concerns about writing.

My criterion for concern or scruples is: will my publication of this story create a plausible, material risk that somebody will be influenced by my story to cause harm in the real world?

I'm not at all concerned with things like people being offended, or squicked, or morally outraged by my story. I'm concerned with real harm.

I think we're all more or less speculating when we try to project what the impact of our stories might be, but there are two types of stories that raise my level of concern enough that I won't write them.

One is pedophilia: adults taking advantage of children, especially when the victims are prepubescent.

The other is rape/murder/snuff, where the violence is presented in a way that is intended to be, or reasonably likely to be enjoyed as, erotically pleasing.

The only story I've written where these issues came into play a little bit was Darkling Tower, which involves ritual murder. I thought long and hard about how I was going to deal with it and tried to present it in a way that did not raise my concerns.

 

[Yogma]

An interesting question. Although if you want an answer you might have to expand on what is a "moral dilemma"?

I've written about characters who have lied, cheated, manipulated, coerced, physically abused and had even contemplated murdering other characters, all things that are very immoral. But I never considered the stories to be immoral (well, not by the end).

I can think of a few things that I wouldn't feel comfortable writing about, and so I don't. But there are also a lot of immoral people and acts I would write about if it served the story. I'm a real sucker for redemption arcs, and sometimes the greater the darkness, the greater the redemption.

 

[Auden James]

You mean Isolated Property by imbu2301, @AwkwardMD? It is still on my reading list, but anyway you were not the writer, right? Of course, the question of editing morally dubious material might be somewhat related to writing it. But, as you pointed out yourself, you are not the creator in this case, which, I think, would help to relieve one's bad conscience, wouldn't it?

 

[AwkwardMD]

You mean Isolated Property by imbu2301, @AwkwardMD? It is still on my reading list, but anyway you were not the writer, right? Of course, the question of editing morally dubious material might be somewhat related to writing it. But, as you pointed out yourself, you are not the creator in this case, which, I think, would help to relieve one's bad conscience, wouldn't it?

I was initmately involved in Isolated Property, yes, but I did not write it. It was very important to the author, though.

 

[SamanthaBehgs]

Have you ever had scruples about writing a story? If so, what did you do to overcome them—or did your bad conscience win?

And, in general, what is the right thing to do in such a situation? Stop the writing? Rewrite the story to make it a better moral fit?

I'm having trouble with the center of the question itself. Why would I ever want to write something that I didn't want to write? If I have a problem with the content, why would I push to overcome...myself? Isn't it the perk of being an author that you are basically a god getting to decide what does and does not fly in your world?

 

[Auden James]

Why would I ever want to write something that I didn't want to write? If I have a problem with the content, why would I push to overcome...myself?

Because the way forward to become a better writer might perhaps be precisely to write outside of one's comfort zone? To push oneself beyond what one—more or less complacently—has settled into in the past?

 

[AwkwardMD]

Like I said, I was trying to help a friend with Isolated Property. I only beta read and edited (a little, that author was barely in need of any assistance and really just needed moral support).

Dark Horse was a different friends idea, and her kink, but I ended up writing maybe 95% of it. It’s less plausible than Isolated Property, and certainly less overtly brutal, but I personally think the grooming and manipulation angles are even more insidious.

Sometimes I wish I could go back and rewrite Dark Horse to make it a little less hack-y, but also I never want to work on it again.

 

[AwkwardMD]

Because the way forward to become a better writer might perhaps be precisely to write outside of one's comfort zone? To push oneself beyond what one—more or less complacently—has settled into in the past?

I've had these two quotes on my Lit profile for... probably 8 years.

 

[Erozetta]

I have a set of characters—a married man (who is a cop) in his early 30s and a single 18-year-old girl—who end up in a deeply traumatic experience together over a period of months. They are rescued, they physically recover, but the things they endured changed them. He could no longer get aroused by anyone but her, which created a problem in his marriage. During their ordeal, she was made to torture him. If she didn't, their captor would, and it would be much worse.

I struggled to write that aspect, but I still wrote it in short bits that used more allusion toward what happened than fully laying it out.

The two carry on an affair after their rescue; a traumatic bond was formed where they feel like no one else could understand. It becomes a highly toxic connection. They are aware of this and try to break it off multiple times.

In the end, they end up right where they started, with her on his lap in an abandoned house in the middle of nowhere, with a gun in her hands.

I struggled to write that as well, so I black-screened it and switched to a close POV of her boyfriend and Dad (also a cop, the other guy's supervisor) arriving as the shots echo through the open house and field.

Dark can be interesting and disturbing. I tried to write it with healing and a happy ending multiple times, but it felt very forced when I did. I want to turn this into a story game where key choices can be made that will put them on the happier path, but in my story, they veered off that course the first time they reconnected after being rescued, which was the start of their affair and where they realized just how much the experience actually fucked them up.



This story sat in my WIP folder for over a year while I struggled with it. Not the actual writing part, that came oddly easily, but in the morality of writing it. All said and done, I don't regret writing it because I feel like I needed to get all of that darkness out of my head, and the story worked well for that. It's one of the very few stories I've ever put content warnings on.

And I have others in a similar vein of writing for therapy to process thoughts and experiences from my life. This story was working through some tangled up memories of a relationship that was extremely toxic and I struggled to get away from, and in a way, I never really got away from it, it changed who I was from that point forward. I explored that idea in this story and felt better upon finishing it.

So, I'd suggest considering:

Why am I writing this?
Do I need to tell this story?
Can a lesson be learned from this story?
Is it being written to shock or initiate discussion?
Is it one that I write only for myself or is there value in letting others read it? (In this case, I felt there was value in letting others read it if only to cement the idea that it's okay to love someone and still understand that your connection to them is toxic. Not accepting the toxic part, though? That will likely lead to mutual destruction as it did in this story.)

 

[SamanthaBehgs]

Because the way forward to become a better writer might perhaps be precisely to write outside of one's comfort zone? To push oneself beyond what one—more or less complacently—has settled into in the past?

I think there is a big difference between expanding one's horizons, so to speak, and pushing past one's moral boundaries. As someone who not only writes in the BDSM category but lives it, it feels to me very much like the distinction between soft limits and hard limits, if that makes any sense anywhere outside of my head.

 

[Statius]

I had that choice to make recently and decided not to write the story. That's me. However I will not and would not judge another for the stories they write. Yes the idea is to push yourself, but there are hundreds of ways to challenge yourself as a writer. But speaking for the only person I can, myself, this is a hobby, for fun. I am not trying to test my own limits IN THAT REGARD. I continue to challenge myself in small ways that matter to me. I am not a real writer, never will be, and am not trying to be. The question by the OP seems to me to be an extremely personal one to be decided by each individual writer.

 

[AwkwardMD]

Also I have a final chapter of Dark Horse in my head that I've never written, and it’s awful.

 

[Auden James]

Is it the final chapter idea itself that is awful or the feeling that you have thus far abstained from writing it down that is awful, @AwkwardMD?

 

[SamanthaBehgs]

I also should probably just flat out admit - I'm probably not a good writer and likely never will be really. I started writing at a time when my brain was already quite literally broken. I wonder if I should just put that in my signature with a warning to take any advice I give, even if in the form of a question, with a bucket of salt...

 

[AwkwardMD]

Is it the final chapter idea itself that is awful or the feeling that you have thus far abstained from writing it down that is awful, @AwkwardMD?

I used to do these Schroedinger's Endings for stories where I'd write it right up to a moment of decisive impact and hard stop. I'd say "Okay reader, you take it from here. One of two things happened. Canon is whichever you choose."

The ending I have in mind canonizes what seems like the *better* of the two choices, but drags out the long term impact of what the characters have been through and explores how they haven't been able to return to society. Everyone ends up back at the Ranch because nothing else makes sense to them, and they pick up where they left off. It's very cynical and bitter.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Like I said, I was trying to help a friend with Isolated Property. I only beta read and edited (a little, that author was barely in need of any assistance and really just needed moral support).

Dark Horse was a different friends idea, and her kink, but I ended up writing maybe 95% of it. It’s less plausible than Isolated Property, and certainly less overtly brutal, but I personally think the grooming and manipulation angles are even more insidious.

Sometimes I wish I could go back and rewrite Dark Horse to make it a little less hack-y, but also I never want to work on it again.

As far as I can remember, that series of yours is a somewhat strange fantasy, but I can't remember finding it very dark or insidious. It's not how it read to me. I've a different kind of criticism for what you've done in that story, but in the moral sense, the ending wasn't questionable. The ending was somewhat clumsily done perhaps, but it also showed there are consequences for the dark things that one does. I don't think you should be ashamed or wary of it.

That's also my point when it comes to writing darker themes. Write them, show them, make them cruel or ruthless even. Either way, you are unlikely to make them as dark as sometimes reality can be. But the important thing for me is to show that dark things leave darkness behind, that they damage people and leave negative consequences. Painting them in ethically lighter tones or even neutral tones is what I generally have a problem with.

 

[AwkwardMD]

As far as I can remember, that series of yours is a somewhat strange fantasy, but I can't remember finding it very dark or insidious. It's not how it read to me. I've a different kind of criticism for what you've done in that story, but in the moral sense, the ending wasn't questionable. The ending was somewhat clumsily done perhaps, but it also showed there are consequences for the dark things that one does. I don't think you should be ashamed or wary of it.

That's also my point when it comes to writing darker themes. Write them, show them, make them cruel or ruthless even. Either way, you are unlikely to make them as dark as sometimes reality can be. But the important thing for me is to show that dark things leave darkness behind, that they damage people and leave negative consequences. Painting them in ethically lighter tones or even neutral tones is what I generally have a problem with.

I was not capable writing Dark Horse to be as dark on the page as it was in my head. I lacked the sophistication and experience, so what's on the page takes more shortcuts and uses some cheap trickery to get some things done. I didn't need to do that, and I wish I hadn't, but that was all I was capable of at the time.

There’s a version that lives in my head that's worse, and is a more grounded exploration of how those events could be done plausibly.

 

[Statius]

I also should probably just flat out admit - I'm probably not a good writer and likely never will be really. I started writing at a time when my brain was already quite literally broken. I wonder if I should just put that in my signature with a warning to take any advice I give, even if in the form of a question, with a bucket of salt...

My opinion? Write what and how you write, no apologies for who you are or what you do. The stories are yours, no one else's. Be unapologetically you. ( Disclaimer: no burning, pillaging, raping, beating, or otherwise hurting people.)

 

[AwkwardMD]

I'm also not motivated to fix it, because it was never my thing. I was helping a friend (and to an extent the shortcuts were me getting annoyed at the fact that I wrote 95% of someone elses idea). If she had been more actively co-writing with me, I think the end result might have been stronger.

Oh well.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I was not capable writing Dark Horse to be as dark on the page as it was in my head. I lacked the sophistication and experience, so what's on the page takes more shortcuts and uses some cheap trickery to get some things done. I didn't need to do that, and I wish I hadn't, but that was all I was capable of at the time.

There’s a version that lives in my head that's worse, and is a more grounded exploration of how those events could be done plausibly.

That's easy to relate to. I've had a similar experience with my first stories here, and if it weren't for that whole bombing thing and me taking down my stories, I wouldn't have been able to fix them, at least partially. They are still far from the way I would write them now, but at least I am not embarrassed by them anymore.

Maybe one day you'll want to rewrite that story, who knows. And again, as a reader, I don't care how dark you want to go as long as you don't sugarcoat the consequences. I'm not sure how representative I am, though.

 

[WittyUserName]

Have you ever had scruples about writing a story? If so, what did you do to overcome them—or did your bad conscience win?

And, in general, what is the right thing to do in such a situation? Stop the writing? Rewrite the story to make it a better moral fit?

Yes, I have. I wasn't planning on incest in a series, but the characters were close and readers kept asking. I caved.

 

[SamanthaBehgs]

My opinion? Write what and how you write, no apologies for who you are or what you do. The stories are yours, no one else's. Be unapologetically you. ( Disclaimer: no burning, pillaging, raping, beating, or otherwise hurting people.)

Wait, no hurting people?! (I know, you don't mean no D/s or sadism/machochism, I just had to!) And thank you, that's what I'm trying for in my own works.

But on these boards, it's not necessariy about writing as it is about answering others. I just was having trouble wrapping my head around why someone would want to cross their own line in the sand. It's why I didn't need to know what that line was (I assumed it passed the requirements of the site for things that were allowed, of course) because the trouble I was having was why *force* yourself over a hard limit.

 

[SamanthaBehgs]

Yes, I have. I wasn't planning on incest in a series, but the characters were close and readers kept asking. I caved.

How do you feel about it afterwards?