Is there literally no place for traditional cuckold stories on Lit?

[Gamblnluck]

Betrayal and humiliation are often intertwined, and those whiny hubbies in their popular tales take great pleasure in wallowing before finally taking action.

I wouldn't go that far. I agreed with what you said before that. The husbands are not whiny in the most popular stories. They are angry. That anger is generally from the breaking of the trust they thought they shared with the spouse. So many authors fail to understand the nuance. Notalenthack described the problem very well.

 

[Lifestyle66]

And there it is: all the narrow-mindedness, oversimplification, and aggression of those hillbillies wrapped up in a single sentence.

By that logic, incest obsession is a disorder too. Interracial’s racism is a disorder. Rape fascination in Non-Con and Mind Control is a disorder. Anal sex doesn’t exist in nature, nor does gay sex, would you call those a disorder too?

With the exception of Romance and Erotic Coupling, nearly every category and every kink is transgressive by nature, and if pushed to the extreme, could be called a disorder. Disorder drives erotica. Disorder is the core of any effective plot.

Humiliation, even when well hidden, is a common motive in almost every cheating story. Betrayal and humiliation are often intertwined. Those whiny hubbies in their popular tales take great pleasure in wallowing before finally taking action. But I guess the camel can’t see the hump in its own back.

Granting legitimacy to your own kinks while dismissing others’ is narrow-minded, childishly entitled, and hypocritical, if you ask me.

Do you pull the wings off of flies, just to laugh and point to it, saying that makes them a "walk." It's funny, right? ... to you.

Sadists INFLICT things on others for their own enjoyment. A rapist is a sadist, sexually assaulting someone against their will, for the sadist's own pleasure. Finding a woman who enjoys being "forcibly raped" doesn't change the fact the rapist is sadistically and selfishly using someone for their own pleasure. And we (civilized society in general) avoid selfish people, find such EXCEEDINGLY selfish people to be anti-social. They have no empathy for what they are doing to others, therefore we avoid them because we might be their NEXT target they want to bully. Many people have empathy for the bully's victims.

There are many people with sexual fantasies and who engaged in borderline non-con for their own pleasure. A sexually inexperienced guy might fuck a young woman until he orgasms in her, cluelessly ignoring her need to orgasm. But is that due to sadistically using her? Or is it just inexperience? These are the gray areas authors play in.

But when an author wants to write a story celebrating the extremes, then get real and accept that many or most people will hate it for being anti-social and exceedingly selfish.

When it comes to the "extreme cuckold" stories, empathetic people will feel sorry for the humiliated husband. SOMETHING caused that husband to be a masochist, and any truly loving spouse might try helping their loved one get over it, not exploiting their weakness to the extreme for their own pleasure. EXPLOITING the weak is what we find as "sick"!

 

[Robin_Starveling]

And there it is, the usual post by butt-hurt authors who missed the point and can't suppress their bite reflex.



Incest, gay and anal sex DO exist in nature. In VARIOUS species, in fact. Never seen a dog try to hump another male dog!? And rape-fascination in Non-Con and Mind Control are (usually) power fantasies, not fetishes. They come from a place where people just want to turn their brains off, and dwell in fantasies of being able to enjoy themselves without restrictions, worries, or consequences, not from a place where they can't get off unless someone's crying and begging for mercy (again, usually).



Sure. If you eat obsessively, or refuse to eat at all, you have an eating disorder. Problem is, though, that this doesn't apply here, and I honestly have no idea how you managed to make the comparison. Because there is no "too much" when it comes to masochism and sadism before it becomes a mental disorder. There is no "healthy amount of pain" you can like to inflict on someone, before it becomes concerning to a neutral observer.



The difference between Cuckolding and all the other themes you listed above is that, with all the other themes, people don't come running into the forum to bitch and whine about readers not appreciating the author's kinks/fetishes on a semi-daily basis. They accept that there are people who have different tastes, and that what they write might be disturbing to others. It's almost like the cuckold authors have this burning need for validation, and when they don't get it, they throw a temper tantrum where everyone else is either a hillbilly, narrow-minded, or an incel.

I’m gonna rewrite my last sentence: Granting legitimacy to your own kinks while dismissing others’ is plain stupidity.

 

[OverconfidentSarcasm]

I’m gonna rewrite my last sentence: Granting legitimacy to your own kinks while dismissing others’ is plain stupidity.

Again... I'm granting legitimacy to all kinks and fetishes. It's just that the DSM disagrees with your assessment of masochism and sadism being kinks.

 

[Gamblnluck]

Lifestyle gave his LW stats. Here are mine. I wrote 18 LW submissions. 3 are multi chapter. Of those, 2 are below a 4 rating, (a 3.9 and an abysmal 2.7).

The failure of the 2.7 was it was a sequel to a highly rated story where I felt the wife was treated poorly. She had an obvious clinical depression. In my story, she turned the tables on her husband's BTB once she got treatment. It is the highest number of comments at 349 and 55k reads in the two years since I posted it.

You may not like LW. You might not agree with what the readers want. But you have a choice if you want your stories to be successful there. I personally do not write a story with the intention of it bombing.

 

[Robin_Starveling]

Again... I'm granting legitimacy to all kinks and fetishes. It's just that the DSM disagrees with your assessment of masochism and sadism being kinks.

Who cares what anyone, or any manual, says? We’re in the fantasy business: everything is legit unless the owner says otherwise. Wanting to fuck your mother, father, or sister is sick. Wanting to fuck someone just because of their skin color or eye shape is sick. Wanting to fuck someone unconscious or without consent is sick. Obsessively reading about heartless, cheating bitches is sick.

We’re all mentally disordered, damaged goods, but we’re in the right place.

 

[Gamblnluck]

Again... I'm granting legitimacy to all kinks and fetishes. It's just that the DSM disagrees with your assessment of masochism and sadism being kinks.

The DSM probably would not accept homosexuality as anything other than aberrant behavior either except for popular opinion.

 

[Actingup]

After all, just because a tomato is technically a fruit, that doesn't mean it belongs in a fruit salad.

For a brief moment there, I thought that we were drifting towards a discussion of pineapple and pizza. Glad we stuck to safe subjects.

Not directed at Lifestyle but to several of those commenting above:
One of the things I notice often from some of these authors who fail in LW is how they act toward the audience. Calling them 'incels', 'trolls', misogynists if they do like a story. If you have that attitude toward your readers, no wonder you fail.

I do agree with this comment. You can't really succeed in any field if you don't respect your clients/readers. You can make a lot of noise, get attention, and leave a pile of smoking wreckage behind you, but those are non-traditional versions of success.

I do get frustrated in LW that some of the audience are so reactionary to anything they perceive as betrayal or cuckoldary, even if it's consensual. But I have to say that the great majority of the audience are not like that, and often give helpful and genuinely reasonable criticism (as I've said in other threads). And some of them are a great deal of fun, even with flamethrowers in hand.

I have a story in 'pending' that tries to navigate between Burn The Bitch and Reconcile At All Costs in a fun way. I'm sure that it will get mixed reactions, and that's fine of course. I'm also sure that it will get more engagement in LW than it would have in another category, and that's more than fine.

 

[TheNovelist2000]

Again... I'm granting legitimacy to all kinks and fetishes. It's just that the DSM disagrees with your assessment of masochism and sadism being kinks.

Have you ever even picked up a DSM in your life? Do you know how many kinks on this site are described in that book? If you use a diagnostic manual like that to bash kinks, you’ll have nothing left. Exhibitionism—gone. Voyeurism—gone. All trans stories—gone. The entire fetish category—gone. Ever been aroused by panties, shoes, or nylon tights? According to that book, you’d be considered mentally deranged. Homosexuality used to be in there as well, until society decided to change.

And here’s a question for you self-important, LW softcore authors: do you really think enjoying your wife getting railed by another man while you watch is “normal”? Ever thought maybe there’s something a little off in your head too?

By the way, clinically, you can only diagnose someone with a disorder when it is both clinically and socially burdensome. For example, if you have obsessive or impulsive tendencies but they don’t impair your daily life, then you don’t have OCD.

In this safe space of Literotica, people don’t suffer from social, legal, or clinical complications because of the stories they read. So take your stupid manual and stuff it up your ass.

Nothing is worse than people who kink-shame on Literotica.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Not to rain on the idea of a separate category, but once the haters find it, realize you moved their favorite target stories to a new category, in the hopes of losing them, they'll pack and move in with you there.

 

[Lifestyle66]

Have you ever even picked up a DSM in your life? Do you know how many kinks on this site are described in that book? If you use a diagnostic manual like that to bash kinks, you’ll have nothing left. Exhibitionism—gone. Voyeurism—gone. All trans stories—gone. The entire fetish category—gone. Ever been aroused by panties, shoes, or nylon tights? According to that book, you’d be considered mentally deranged. Homosexuality used to be in there as well, until society decided to change.

And here’s a question for you self-important, LW softcore authors: do you really think enjoying your wife getting railed by another man while you watch is “normal”? Ever thought maybe there’s something a little off in your head too?

By the way, clinically, you can only diagnose someone with a disorder when it is both clinically and socially burdensome. For example, if you have obsessive or impulsive tendencies but they don’t impair your daily life, then you don’t have OCD.

In this safe space of Literotica, people don’t suffer from social, legal, or clinical complications because of the stories they read. So take your stupid manual and stuff it up your ass.

Nothing is worse than people who kink-shame on Literotica.

Amazing! Truly, fucking amazing: that your parents actually allow you to frequent this site!

ANYONE, well, any ADULT capable of reading this thread, might have understood that posting shit into a category which OFFENDS that category's readers should ask themselves "What the fuck am I doing? These are the readers I WANT to like my story!"

Instead, like a five-year-old, you come here bitching and whining about how those readers need to have a separate category, so YOU can have Loving Wives all to yourself!

This is not about kink-shaming!

This is about trying to educate you that your kink is NOT a loving wife, but a bully, sadist inflicting extreme humiliation on a masochist! That story belongs in the BDSM category, rather than you flinging turds trying to convince sane people that "She's LOVING it, so it belongs in LW!"

If this were a "safe space", then ALL of my stories should be 5-Star rated! (And, yeah, there are those authors like you who childishly believe that no one should dare to select anything less than a 5 when rating their stories. "If you don't LOVE it, then STFU and don't vote!")

Our readers are PAYING for our stories by spending their time to read them, click a star, and leave a comment! You get what your story is worth from those readers!

 

[TheNovelist2000]

Not to rain on the idea of a separate category, but once the haters find it, realize you moved their favorite target stories to a new category, in the hopes of losing them, they'll pack and move in with you there.

Exactly! They are the problem.

 

[TheNovelist2000]

y, so YOU can have Loving Wives all to yourself!

No one is trying to take over Loving Wives. We’re asking for tolerance, you idiot! Every genre has subsets and variations that some readers won’t like, but that’s not a reason to harass authors or try to boot them out of the main category.

 

[TheNovelist2000]

This is about trying to educate you that your kink is NOT a loving wife,

That’s your problem. Loving Wives is a big category, and if you can’t find it in yourself to accept some variation, that’s on you. LW readers aren’t limited to just the stories you advocate for. Even when cuckold stories get dragged down by unfair bashing from people like you, they still have an audience. That audience is part of the LW readership too, so don’t under-represent them. It's like saying that the US is a white only country.

 

[TheNovelist2000]

This is not about kink-shaming!

Calling a kink a mental disorder not shaming?

 

[TheNovelist2000]

Here's an example of "extreme cuckold" which the OP demands the LW audience accept as normalized for an extra-marital fun, sharing and more story in Loving Wife

"Thank You, Darling"
"A pregnant wife has a special surprise for her dear husband."

I note that you read it and commented that it's "Five star trolling."

Thank you for bringing this story to my attention. I haven’t even finished the first page, and I’m already rock hard. This is exactly the kind of gem the LW fascists like you are trying to push out of LW. Imagine losing a story like this to ‘Fetish’ or some other random category — that would be a crime against humanity.

 

[sirhugs]

Again... I'm granting legitimacy to all kinks and fetishes. It's just that the DSM disagrees with your assessment of masochism and sadism being kinks.

since when does the DSM matter here?

 

[Robin_Starveling]

Thank you for bringing this story to my attention. I haven’t even finished the first page, and I’m already rock hard. This is exactly the kind of gem the LW fascists like you are trying to push out of LW. Imagine losing a story like this to ‘Fetish’ or some other random category — that would be a crime against humanity.

Although I keep reminding myself that spending most of one’s free time on painfully low-quality smut isn’t exactly a hallmark of intelligence or sanity, I still cringe at the worst cases. The guy you’re trying to reason with has the comprehension of a 5-year-old, scraping bits of others' arguments and spitting them back, so don’t waste your breath.

Interestingly, @Kasumi_Lee posted the exact same story in Interracial a week later, and it didn’t fare much better: 3.39 vs. 2.5. Still, both installments drew tens of thousands of views, proving there’s a big audience for these kinks, even if they’ve been cast out of their rightful home. And yes, those "fascists" read it too. They fume at their mouths but keep reading because, for all their bluster, they’re not that different from their bashed brothers on the other bank.

They’ll never admit it, but humiliation and self-degradation are key ingredients in their embarrassingly silly tales. The hubby, though a decent man, is almost always deemed unworthy: constantly mocked for his empty wallet, his tiny dick, his lack of masculinity, and his pitiful performance in bed. Marital vows are his only valid excuse, and even then, it’s hard to blame a woman for preferring the better man.

Just like in NonCon, where the rape fantasy lets the victim participate without initiating and thus bypass subconscious sexual inhibitions, LW incels have found a simple denial mechanism to conceal their secret desire: they WANT to see the wife with another man. They WANT to know every sordid detail -- how she swallowed his spunk, how she gave him her ass -- things the poor hubby could only dream of. They want to wallow in self-pity and worthlessness while secretly enjoying it. But, of course, “We didn’t ask for it; it’s all her doing!”

The shame makes them angry, so they rush to the ultimate hand-washing conclusion: revenge!

 

[Lifestyle66]

So, where should authors who like to write hardcore cuckold stories upload, for the audience that does exist and is looking forward to that kind of content.

Once again, (for the learning impaired), we've been discussing and answering your question!

But you won't listen!

I've even given you the Googled definitions (slow that you are, I couldn't expect YOU to look them up) to prove the point to show you the best answer to your question: BDSM!

You come back here, over, and over, intolerant, and blame-shifting, when other tell you "There's no LOVING wife in that shit! It's the most extreme hatred and exploitation, enslaving someone else for her own selfish, warped pleasure!"

Upload to "BDSM"! Or upload to Loving Wives or wherever. Just stop your pathetic whining demands "But they MUST love it, or everyone is kink-shaming!!!"

 

[OverconfidentSarcasm]

Calling a kink a mental disorder not shaming?

Look, I get it. Just like I wrote in my post previous to the one you quoted, you are, once again, proving my point. You enjoy hardcore cuckolding, feel insecure about it, so whenever someone says something bad about it, you take it as a personal insult and throw a tamper tantrum by insulting the people around you. Which, by the way, could be seen as a social impairment born from your... "kink". But that's beside the point.

This thread is about why so many readers don't appreciate hardcore cuckolding stories. And people told you. LW is NOT the place for them.

And it's also not kink shaming to point that out. There are Cuckolding stories, which do perfectly fine in LW, because they are about mutual fun and enjoyment. As I commented before, write a story about a guy who thinks his wife is beautiful and likes to see her in the throes of passion, and you're golden. That's a legitimate kink.
But write a story about a sadistic woman and bull who derive pleasure from hurting a masochist, then you'll have a problem. Because those are not kinks. And the vast majority of readers are not sadists or masochists themselves.

It's like with the NC/R category. There are "rape" stories that are born from a place where authors and readers just want to dwell in power fantasies, which are perfectly fine on this site. And then there are RAPE stories, where authors and readers get off on the sadistic pleasure of hurting and traumatizing a victim, which (ideally) get rejected here. Which I also fail to see as kink shaming, because, again, sadism is also not a kink.

Literotica is a buyer's market. If the readers don't want to see your stuff in a category, you can either move it into another one... or move to another site. But you don't get to complain about EVERYONE ELSE on a free story site. Because, let's face reality here... Lit lives off the readers, not the authors. It's the readers who generate ad revenue and click on the banners. And while you might believe that, without the authors, the readers wouldn't have anything to read here. But I believe Lit's story catalogue is big enough to entertain readers for quite some time, even if we all stopped posting new stuff today. So, if the readers don't want something in LW, Lit is not gonna go out of their way to tell them otherwise.

And regarding your other rant about the DSM:

Have you ever even picked up a DSM in your life? Do you know how many kinks on this site are described in that book?

Few, actually. Because I HAVE picked it up.

If you use a diagnostic manual like that to bash kinks, you’ll have nothing left. Exhibitionism—gone. Voyeurism—gone. All trans stories—gone. The entire fetish category—gone. Ever been aroused by panties, shoes, or nylon tights? According to that book, you’d be considered mentally deranged. Homosexuality used to be in there as well, until society decided to change.

Okay, let's do this then.

Exhibitionism? Fantasizing about doing outrageous shit, without having to worry about consequences, can be extremely exciting. Nothing weird or concerning about that.
Voyeurism? Same deal. Perfectly normal. There's a reason why EVERY show where a male teenager gains invisibility at some point uses it to sneak into the girl's locker room, or the neighbor's bathroom to watch the hot milf shower.
Trans stories? How old are you that you think that even belongs into the DSM!? Being attracted to physical attributes, be it tits, asses, feet, or "Chicks with dicks", has nothing "deranged" about it.
Even hardcore BDSM. The brain chemistry behind it is actually pretty simple, and it's rather easy to understand how pain can lead to pleasure once you get behind the whole dopamine/endorphin mechanism.

No, you couldn't construe every kink on this site into a mental disorder. Just those that ARE mental disorders, whether you want to see it that way or not.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Not to disagree with you, though I am, I don't believe most authors demand anything from the reader. We present tales, and the individual member of the audience is required to do nothing, not even read the story.

Here's an example of "extreme cuckold" which the OP demands the LW audience accept as normalized for an extra-marital fun, sharing and more story in Loving Wife

"Thank You, Darling"
"A pregnant wife has a special surprise for her dear husband."

I note that you read it and commented that it's "Five star trolling."

 

[Lifestyle66]

Not to disagree with you, though I am, I don't believe most authors demand anything from the reader. We present tales, and the individual member of the audience is required to do nothing, not even read the story.

Yes, we can agree to disagree.

If you read all of the posts in the thread, particularly those by the OP, you'd find the OP and one other ARE insisting/demanding that the readers and we authors in the AH be more accepting of their kink: "extreme cuckold".

Even when I point out the Googled definitions and one story to illustrate their concept (a story which they applauded as exactly what they want), they come back insisting others be more tolerant and accepting.

So, while it might not be MOST authors, there are some (or quite a few?) who do expect to change their readers' minds.

 

[OverconfidentSarcasm]

Not to disagree with you, though I am, I don't believe most authors demand anything from the reader. We present tales, and the individual member of the audience is required to do nothing, not even read the story.

I admire the mindset. But I feel like there are too many threads on this forum, featuring authors complaining about the readership, for that mindset to be universally true.

If a story gets buried in a big category with many uploads per day, there will be a thread complaining about it. If a story's view-count drops after it drops off the "latest" list, there will be a concerned thread about it. If a story doesn't get many votes or comments, there will be a thread complaining about it. If the comments and votes aren't favorable enough, there will be a thread about it. And if readers don't appreciate the stories of an author, that author will get discouraged and stop posting.
At the very least, it seems to me that the majority of authors on this site post their stories expecting exposure and appreciation. Very few post their stories just for the heck of it, and then don't care about the feedback they receive.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I'm not into cuckold stories, ask @Lifestyle66, he's the person who is the expert!

I admire the mindset. But I feel like there are too many threads on this forum, featuring authors complaining about the readership, for that mindset to be universally true.

If a story gets buried in a big category with many uploads per day, there will be a thread complaining about it. If a story's view-count drops after it drops off the "latest" list, there will be a concerned thread about it. If a story doesn't get many votes or comments, there will be a thread complaining about it. If the comments and votes aren't favorable enough, there will be a thread about it. And if readers don't appreciate the stories of an author, that author will get discouraged and stop posting.
At the very least, it seems to me that the majority of authors on this site post their stories expecting exposure and appreciation. Very few post their stories just for the heck of it, and then don't care about the feedback they receive.

 

[MillieDynamite]

And to be completely honest, @OverconfidentSarcasm, I don't know what is or isn't traditional in cuckolding stories.