Targeted story

[RejectReality]

I don't understand your logic in keeping scoring, but doing away with the red H???
It is scoring which creates most of the angst here. People complaining about #1 bombs and the like...
No scoring, no bombing....
I am interested in understanding why you feel the need to keep scoring...
Aside from competitions, what does it offer???
Interested

Cagivagurl

If you look at the angst that arises from scores, almost all of it is about that 4.5 bar, because there's such a precipitous drop-off in engagement if you lose it. What little else arises is because someone got knocked off the toplist.

Without that shiny bling, readers will also be inclined to explore stories they would have otherwise skipped because it didn't have the bauble, based upon the title and description most likely, because the score is nowhere near as prominent as that H.

Authors would still be upset when their score goes down, but it's not going to be Defcon 5 knowing that a couple more votes will destroy their engagement by removing the H.

Trolls know all this. They aim for that simple target. Eliminating it makes them work harder to cause the same pain. Casting more troll votes leaves more traces and that means more of them will get swept.

The simple fact is that scores aren't going away. The toplists are a major selection point for readers, and Laurel and Manu know this. No score = the loss of a toplist per category. Unfortunately, the H is an even bigger selection point, which means it's unlikely to go anywhere either — even though readers are doing themselves a disservice by leaning on that crutch.

 

[lovecraft68]

No need to do away with scoring. Just that bloody Red H.

Notice where the bail bar is: 4.50. That's where the bloody H nukes your readership because the bulk of people won't even look at something without one. It's a distraction for readers, a source of angst for authors, and an easy target for trolls.

It won't stop the bombing. Nothing will short of no scoring whatsoever will do that.

But if they did away with scoring? It would be more nasty comments. The trolls will always troll and the shame is they're more dedicated than the average reader.

The answer is doing away with anonymous, you need a user ID to vote/comment etc.

But people won't like that either because there will be less votes and comments. But the upside would be they've be much more positive.

I'd say pick your poison, but the site's not going to change anything, so we deal with the fact people suck.

 

[Robin_Starveling]

If that was true, we'd all be writing incest stories. But we're not. We're writing chain stories, SF&F stories, erotic horror and a dozen other categories where you can't expect more than a few thousand views. We're writing quirky stories, dark stories, stories that we know won't appeal to the mainstream, even on Lit. Some of us write April Fool's Day stories, and 750-worders. And we do it again and again.

People write for plenty of different reasons. A "subconscious craving for validation" is fairly low on the list for most of us.

You unintentionally strengthened my point instead of refuting it, but there’s no point in explaining. Deprived of external light, those who can’t shine on their own would sink back into the void they came from.

 

[StillStunned]

You unintentionally strengthened my point instead of refuting it, but there’s no point in explaining. Deprived of the help of external light, many would simply slip back into the void from which they came.

Your intellect makes me feel so inferior.

 

[Robin_Starveling]

Your intellect makes me feel so inferior.

Usually it’s the lack of positive parental feedback, but I feel you.

 

[Cagivagurl]

The rating system is one of the main incentives for most writers, so it’s not likely to go anywhere. Every creative mind has three or four stories they just have to get out, other than that, it’s the competitive itch and the subconscious craving for validation that keep them churning like meth-fueled squirrels on a treadmill. Take the scoring away and a lot of the diligent, compulsive contributors would probably vanish.

Exceptional stories take their rightful place eventually, even if it takes years.

OP, Have you drawn the ire of Stacnash? Same category, same setup, and last time people were swearing on their mothers it was her.

You obviously write for different reasons to myself.
I do it for fun, for a creative release. I post my stories because it's nice to see other people get a modicum of enjoyment from them as well.
The scores are irrelevant to me. I don't see it as a competitive outlet.
I don't need external validation. I have never seen writing in that light. Yes, I have an ego, and a couple of nice email feedbacks, or some positive comments. That is all it takes to make me smile...
Every time I log into the forum, I see more complaints about score manipulation. Dissatisfied writers fretting because their story has been bombed...

By removing the scoring, it removes that element.
Scoring seems redundant to me.
Just my opinion. Interested to see if others feel the same.
Sorry for distracting the thread.

Cagivagurl.

 

[avabacchus]

I know this is frustrating, but if you start taking your work down the person/people trolling you will just think they've won. Their goal in doing this is to get you to stop writing. And then what if you do start taking your stories down? They'll just move their efforts to another story, systematically driving you off the site entirely. What about the people who enjoy your stories and have taken the time to read them or leave nice comments? If you take your work down because of one bad apple, you're sort of dismissing all those other people like they don't even matter.

 

[jsmiam]

It’s a nice change of pace for a voting/scores topic to NOT pertain to a story with 5 to 15 votes.

Your issue, OP, as stated elsewhere is probably from having been on a toplist where a cheater (or cheater’s-fanboy) exists.

Unfortunately, but, and however: Using Amazon as an example, where review fraud also exists in spite of limitless resources to combat it, it’s important to begrudgingly accept that it will exist no matter what. (I’m not saying “like this”, I’m saying “accept some things we can’t control. And that if Amazon can’t stop it, there’s no way Literotica can either.).

You seem to have a fan base and a track record. Enjoy it.

More importantly though, your bouquet of nothing but red H’s will be (or perhaps already is? Because now we all have doubts) based on false pretenses if you pull stories that don’t have a red H. Maybe readers won’t know, but you will. Us too!

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

More importantly though, your bouquet of nothing but red H’s will be (or perhaps already is?

At risk due to this thread.

 

[Britva415]

Big difference between fraudulent voting and troll (down)voting or stack voting. I really don't think the moderators have the capacity to determine which votes are "legit" and which aren't. The other side of the coin - someone could have 10 (email accounts) literotica accounts and each account give a 5 star rating to their own story. Again I don't believe the moderators have the capabilities to do anything about vote stacking either.

What do you suppose they are intending to achieve with sweeps?

What do you suppose they base he sweeps on, data wise?

 

[SmilingLez]

What do you suppose they are intending to achieve with sweeps?

What do you suppose they base he sweeps on, data wise?

I think you are replying to the wrong message. There's nothing that can be achieved by sweeps. No way to know if it's a troll or a registered user who just doesn't like your story. A 1 rating is a 1 rating be it anonymous by someone who doesn't like your story, or a registered user who doesn't like your story, or a troll (anonymous or registered) who is just fu©king with you

 

[Britva415]

I think you are replying to the wrong message. There's nothing that can be achieved by sweeps.

So, my question to you wasn't about that. But now I have a new one, which is, do you think they shouldn't be doing sweeps at all?

 

[iwatchus]

There's nothing that can be achieved by sweeps. No way to know if it's a troll or someone who just doesn't like your writing. A 1 rating is a 1 rating be it anonymous by someone who doesn't like your story, or a registered user who doesn't like your story, or a troll (anonymous or registered) who is just fu©king with you

I disagree with this premise. I don't think they can be perfect and a particularly determined troll can probably bypass them. I am not going to speculate any more about what they may or may not be doing.

 

[SmilingLez]

Sweeps don't make sense to me for the reasons I mentioned. It's a waste of time, more effort should be directed to the story/poem/audio/art approval process. ymmv

 

[alohadave]

Sweeps don't make sense to me for the reasons I mentioned. It's a waste of time, more effort should be directed to the story/poem/audio/art approval process. ymmv

Stories are approved once, but they can be voted on forever.

 

[SmilingLez]

Stories are approved once, but they can be voted on forever.

Voting can be turned off by the author

 

[EmilyMiller]

No way to know if it's a troll or a registered user who just doesn't like your story.

Yeah there is. It’s taboo to mention what the various possible clickstream-related and vote pattern-related red flags might be. But if I can figure some of them out, so could many others (including those who want to avoid their votes being swept). The sweeps do some good, but they don’t address the issue of sophiaticated tactical voting (the sort carried out by people who know how the site works, or can guess). Sweeps are a Band-Aid at best. But a Band-Aid is better than nothing.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Yet another example of the OP starting a thread and then disappearing. So many of these. Maybe they are taking diligent notes. Maybe they didn’t like some of the replies. Maybe they had other motivations for posting in the first place. But this seems to happen a lot around here. Seems strange when you are asking for input / opinions.

 

[RejectReality]

Sweeps don't make sense to me for the reasons I mentioned. It's a waste of time, more effort should be directed to the story/poem/audio/art approval process. ymmv

It's just an automated query with data fields. Sweep stories approved from Oct. 1 to Oct. 31. Sweep this story. Sweep this toplist. Sweep this contest. Pop in the parameter and walk away. Hardly taking time away from anything else.

It's really only happening with themed contests and the occasional requested sweep now. The reason everyone seems to feel that their bombs aren't getting swept is that the monthly contests are abysmally behind. Those monthly sweeps were what used to keep everything under control. If they ever do try to catch up and run those, watch out! The last time they did a big catch-up, scores were jumping like kangaroos on crack for a while. Contest trolling/cheerleading is a different animal to the everyday manipulation. The monthly contest sweeps were getting the day-to-day voting and finding those bad actors who don't mess with contests, because it was examining every vote on every story submitted in a calendar month.

 

[JGittes]

I believe scores are for the readers' benefit, not the authors'.

Since authors are paid nothing for our efforts, we take solace and validation where we can; most obviously, the score.

I'll make a wild ass guess, based on my experience of lit as first a reader then author, that participants in the AH forum are a tiny minority (significantly less than 5%, probably less than 1%) of the total traffic through the site. My understanding of the contemporary internet user is that unless they can find what they're looking for within three or four clicks, they'll go elsewhere.

Scores (and the red H) provide a quick and dirty means for a highly distracted internet reader to find something they may like to read. The more satisfying they find those initial experiences, the more likely they'll take more time to delve deeper into the back catalog.

 

[SugarStorm]

As of today, it stands at 4.61 (It says 4.69 on the story, but 4.61 on my dashboard). Every day, for the last month, someone logs in, and gives the story a 1, driving it slowly, steadily down. I assume they’re using a VPN. When the person started it had less than 300 votes. Now it has 327. Almost all of them 1 votes.

A bit curious (read: obsessive), so I did the math, and it almost sounds like you've been carpet-bombed by two-stars. Obviously there are a few constellations that can be done to achieve 4.61, but not that many given the assumptions stated in the opening post.

Sometimes I wonder if the trolls have begun to adopt a two-star approach in an effort to avoid the sweeps. I've seen something similar before here. Less obvious than a one-star raid, but still enough to make a dent.

Regression fallacy or not, the voting patterns can feel like a fever dream. I had one story cruising exceptionally well after 630+ votes, only to suddenly nose-dive like Wile E. Coyote off a cliff. At a certain point, you start watching the numbers the way gamblers watch slot machines: far too closely, with the creeping suspicion you should be doing literally anything else.

Yet here I am. Sigh.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

I believe scores are for the readers' benefit, not the authors'.

Since authors are paid nothing for our efforts, we take solace and validation where we can; most obviously, the score.

I'll make a wild ass guess, based on my experience of lit as first a reader then author, that participants in the AH forum are a tiny minority (significantly less than 5%, probably less than 1%) of the total traffic through the site. My understanding of the contemporary internet user is that unless they can find what they're looking for within three or four clicks, they'll go elsewhere.

Scores (and the red H) provide a quick and dirty means for a highly distracted internet reader to find something they may like to read. The more satisfying they find those initial experiences, the more likely they'll take more time to delve deeper into the back catalog.

People in the AH tend to lose sight of the fact that we aren't the customer in this situation.
If the AH, all the authors who post here, and all their stories disappeared tonight... well Lit would keep chugging along.

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

I believe scores are for the readers' benefit, not the authors'.

No, score are to fluff the authors.

As I noted above, if scores were only visible to authors and Admins, most of the perceived 'bombing' would end since readers would have no idea what the scores were.

 

[thanagar]

Apologies for not jumping back into the threat. IRL got in the way, plus I’m trying to finish my Christmas story. Speaking of doing things that draw trolls and is a masochistic voting process.

For whatever reason, the targeted downvoting has stopped. So it has flatlined at 4.60. Frustrating, but there you go. And I probably wouldn’t have pulled it because I knew it would only encourage trolls. But weeks of watching this will give you questionable thoughts some times.

Mostly I was just checking to see if there were options I didn’t know about to attract the moderators attention. I figured it was futile, but maybe there was a shot. I always like to say you get what you pay for with Lit.

As for some of the other ideas, they seem about as likely to happen as trolls stop roaming around Lit. The way voting has been handled on the site has been fixed for a very long time. I see the site collapsing before it changes.

If nothing else, this serves as reminder for why I joined Lit….to have fun, and get practice writing. I think at this point I’m pretty decent. So it’s a good reminder to maybe try to spread my wings a bit.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Apologies for not jumping back into the threat. IRL got in the way, plus I’m trying to finish my Christmas story. Speaking of doing things that draw trolls and is a masochistic voting process.

For whatever reason, the targeted downvoting has stopped. So it has flatlined at 4.60. Frustrating, but there you go. And I probably wouldn’t have pulled it because I knew it would only encourage trolls. But weeks of watching this will give you questionable thoughts some times.

Mostly I was just checking to see if there were options I didn’t know about to attract the moderators attention. I figured it was futile, but maybe there was a shot. I always like to say you get what you pay for with Lit.

As for some of the other ideas, they seem about as likely to happen as trolls stop roaming around Lit. The way voting has been handled on the site has been fixed for a very long time. I see the site collapsing before it changes.

If nothing else, this serves as reminder for why I joined Lit….to have fun, and get practice writing. I think at this point I’m pretty decent. So it’s a good reminder to maybe try to spread my wings a bit.

There's an old saying, when you're knee deep in alligators it easy to forget why you wanted to drain the swamp.
You hit the nail on the head though, this is supposed to be fun. There's no point in doing it if it isnt.