Why ratings don't matter: trolls

[SinderellaSin]

Do ratings matter?
I've posted this here because an author's first feedback is the eating score.
But does it matter when you have a troll?
It comes out wanting to be mean and nasty.
Then it latches onto you, it reads your story, well, only maybe. And then overnight, every one of your story ratings has gone down.
One person? I suspect so?
So authors appreciate those that love it, those that want to read more of your writing.
Let the haters hate but remember you paint in colour with your words, they paint in black with theirs.
(Which is a strange view as I actually love black)
So if ever your numbers drop remember a lot of people still love your words. Keep writing, keep enjoying what you do, don't let the trolls beat you.

S xx

 

[neighborpipe]

The million dollar question all authors should be asking themselves: am I doing this for myself or am I doing this for someone else? Then write and respond accordingly.

 

[Tyrantino]

The million dollar question all authors should be asking themselves: am I doing this for myself or am I doing this for someone else? Then write and respond accordingly.

I think that's rarely a black and white issue, and most writers write mainly for themselves and/or for their audience on a sliding scale.

Curiously, one could think that those who write for others are better writers, but don't underestimate what the ego can lead some people to do: history is plagued of brilliant writers who were terrible persons.

 

[sister jenny]

Of course we write for ourselves, but if we didn’t want people to read it and like it we would put it in a drawer and move on.
But we post them here so we obviously want something.
And even though we write what we want and like, it hurts when people hate it. I care about ratings and I care about comments, and to be perfectly honest I hate that I do. I would love to say that I don’t care. But when a story bombs or a troll ruins it, it hurts.
And sometimes when I get really mean comments I stop writing for awhile.

 

[neighborpipe]

I think that's rarely a black and white issue, and most writers write mainly for themselves and/or for their audience on a sliding scale.

Curiously, one could think that those who write for others are better writers, but don't underestimate what the ego can lead some people to do: history is plagued of brilliant writers who were terrible persons.

It’s definitely more of a topography than a binary. I would probably argue that writers who write for themselves have a greater capacity for genius, whereas writers who write for popularity have a stronger handle on consensus.

Anyway, it’s not an either/or. Just really a matter of how you get your jollies. If you write to be loved and better understood, good luck. If you write to flesh out your world view and gain clarity, you probably have a better shot at satisfaction.

 

[neighborpipe]

Of course we write for ourselves, but if we didn’t want people to read it and like it we would put it in a drawer and move on.
But we post them here so we obviously want something.
And even though we write what we want and like, it hurts when people hate it. I care about ratings and I care about comments, and to be perfectly honest I hate that I do. I would love to say that I don’t care. But when a story bombs or a troll ruins it, it hurts.
And sometimes when I get really mean comments I stop writing for awhile.

Totally heard and understood. You almost have to wonder if people get their pleasure from demeaning others in this way.

 

[SinderellaSin]

Just a radical idea. Take away the 1 and 2 scores, now what are the trolls going to do? Don't vote because you can't bring someone down so much.

 

[alohadave]

Just a radical idea. Take away the 1 and 2 scores, now what are the trolls going to do? Don't vote because you can't bring someone down so much.

Any system can and will be gamed. Taking away 1 and 2 just makes 3 the new 1 star.

It doesn't actually fix anything and just narrows the range of scores.

 

[THBGato]

Absolutely. Imagine lit adopted a system like Wattpad, whether you either vote on a story or you don't. Then the ranking would effectively become proportion of votes per view/read.

So what would the trolls do? Endlessly click on your story so viewing numbers go up while votes remain static, bringing your ratio down. Whatever system we have, trolls and douchebags will find a way to fuck with it.

Trolls are gonna troll. Ignore them and they'll eventually find a wheel/author that's squeakier.

 

[StillStunned]

Having a dedicated personal troll sucks. I had one who, every morning at the same time, would drop a 1* on two of my stories. Every morning without fail for weeks.

What made it so frustrating was that it was blatant, and there was nothing I could do. I could set my watch by the bombs coming in, and there was no cover.

Every author deals with the same audience. If you enter contests, be prepared for bombing campaigns. If you annoy someone on the forums, be prepared. If someone just wants to be a dick, be prepared.

It's a level playing field in that we all face the same risks. When you're a new writer, the bombs will hurt more, but over time your scores will go up as you find your audience and they find your stories.

It's part of the process of publishing, unfortunately. We create something, and even though loads of people are happy with it, there will always be someone who hates it, or hates us, or hates what we represent.

Focus on the knowledge that hundreds or thousands of readers *didn't* bomb your story. They read it, and your words, your world and your characters, lived inside their minds for a short while. Maybe they loved it. Maybe they were unmoved. But they experienced it.

That's a much better feeling.

 

[Bazzle]

Trolls have a use if they communicate.
If they go to the effort of 1 bombing and giving feedback on the reason, it would make sense. The "why". We tend to search for the "why" when writing a story.

But trolls don't give us the courtesy to tell us why they are giving us a low score.

I publish in Fetish. Feedback is rarer than rain in the Sahara desert. But down voting is not.

 

[WretchRoad]

I'm new, so I wonder if one-star votes without an explanation come from writing outside a reader's gamut of kink, or if they're just dicks. I can't imagine voting less than three stars unless a story was offensive or maliciously low effort.

Some platforms track and ban people for downvote trolling. It's effort on behalf of the mods, but it keeps the community from getting dragged down. On the other hand, people use downvotes and one-stars as a "disagree" button and I doubt that will ever change.

 

[Gamblnluck]

I can't imagine voting less than three stars unless a story was offensive or maliciously low effort.

That's like giving a participation trophy. You will see it happen in several categories though. Some get high scores if they use proper grammar no matter how poor the story is. I rarely give one's but I do give two's. Today, I read about half dozen stories across several categories. The best ones got three's. I started a few others but they were so bad, I stopped and went on.
If you want a rating/score at all, you need to be honest. And that red H as a selection tool is worthless in several categories.

 

[WretchRoad]

That's like giving a participation trophy. You will see it happen in several categories though. Some get high scores if they use proper grammar no matter how poor the story is. I rarely give one's but I do give two's. Today, I read about half dozen stories across several categories. The best ones got three's. I started a few others but they were so bad, I stopped and went on.
If you want a rating/score at all, you need to be honest. And that red H as a selection tool is worthless in several categories.

No, because participation trophies go to everyone and I don't give everyone three stars. I have a metric, it's just different from yours— Which goes to prove a ratings vigilante isn't going to fix a system that's wide open to personal interpretation and abuse.

 

[THBGato]

Today, I read about half dozen stories across several categories. The best ones got three's. I started a few others but they were so bad, I stopped and went on.

Did you give the ones you stopped One or Two stars? Because if not, you're slanting the metric. Some readers will have finished those, given them four or even five, strange as it may seem. Yet, but giving three stars to the ones you did finish, they may well end up with lower scores than the ones you didn't.

If I finish a story, I give five stars and comment. Doesn't cost me anything. If I didn't like it, chances are I didn't finish, so I won't vote. As an author, I know how much thankless effort goes into writing, so I won't give out an anonymous kick to another writer because a story wasn't to my taste.

 

[Gamblnluck]

Did you give the ones you stopped One or Two stars? Because if not, you're slanting the metric. Some readers will have finished those, given them four or even five, strange as it may seem. Yet, but giving three stars to the ones you did finish, they may well end up with lower scores than the ones you didn't.

If I finish a story, I give five stars and comment. Doesn't cost me anything. If I didn't like it, chances are I didn't finish, so I won't vote. As an author, I know how much thankless effort goes into writing, so I won't give out an anonymous kick to another writer because a story wasn't to my taste.

No, if I quit a story less than third way through, I generally don't rate it. If I get to the half way point, I will usually give it a 2 for dislike. I don't give a blanket 5 to stories just because I finish it. That is like a participation trophy. I try to give an honest evaluation.

 

[THBGato]

That is like a participation trophy.

Except writing isn't sport. It's not a competition (obviously, except when it is). So there's no need to draw a false equivalence or treat it as such.

 

[WretchRoad]

How is positively rating enjoyable stories a participation trophy?

I only get through about 1 in 10 stories I begin and "fun" is my key metric, so if it holds me to the end — it gets a great rating.

But you know what? While we have different opinions on ratings, I respect that everyone in this discussion is still thinking about how they review.

Trying to enforce a clear metric for talented and terrible (in your opinion) stories helps keep great works on top. Putting out good vibes to support authors (who write for free) to continue writing is fantastic because we only get better with practice. And I, of course, am objectively correct about whatever I'm doing.

I don't see any problem with how any of us are using the system because we're all doing it conscientiously.

But if someone calls a selectively applied good review a "participation trophy" one more time, I might throw hands.

 

[OneEyedSteve]

Just a radical idea. Take away the 1 and 2 scores, now what are the trolls going to do? Don't vote because you can't bring someone down so much.

Or take an averaging approach that eliminates the extremeties (top and bottom 5% for example), and then base means average on the remainder

 

[SinderellaSin]

If I finish a story, I give five stars and comment. Doesn't cost me anything. If I didn't like it, chances are I didn't finish, so I won't vote. As an author, I know how much thankless effort goes into writing, so I won't give out an anonymous kick to another writer because a story wasn't to my taste.

I have to say, as an 'author', I agree. Positive is always better than negative. Yes, I know I'm going to hear, but if you take away the negative, you don't know what you're doing wrong. Finding people who like my work, enjoy my writing and can give me positive feedback about how they like the stories is of greater value and encourages me to write more.

Having said all that, more radical thoughts. In a series review, the author can choose x number of reviews about a series for people to read before they read the series. How many of you read the reviews on the back of a book? Just an icon before the main text or even in the listing takes you to the link giving you a review from readers who have enjoyed the stories. This would work for stories and series alike.

 

[SinderellaSin]

Note to self, don't message the forum when fucked. Back of books, what was I thinking of? Yes on the back of the bible.... long yarn about some block called Jesus's does some fantasy miracles. Normally, on the back of the book is a kind of intro or about the author.

What I was thinking of now I'm awake properly is reviews for shows. Would you go to watch something if it had a good review? My mum, who encouraged me to read and write, used to ask me to write a book review after I read a book. Well, same principle here. 3 to 5 reviews per story or series. Option to include by author. The author chooses reviews. Just me waking up with random thoughts. Back to lesbian sex... that's writing I mean.

 

[Gamblnluck]

How is positively rating enjoyable stories a participation trophy?

I only get through about 1 in 10 stories I begin and "fun" is my key metric, so if it holds me to the end — it gets a great rating.

That is where our reading habits differ. I don't bail on a story just because it isn't 'outstanding' or 'great'. I read many that are what I'd call 'Okay'. Maybe it has a decent (read interesting) basic plot with a few novel ideas so I read it through. Just because I finish, does not mean a great rating. I might give it a 3 and then comment on what I felt it was lacking.
The exception is an author's first or second attempt where I might give a 4 to encourage him to try again.
I often see stories that were enjoyable, but felt like the author was rushing through the telling. That is NOT a 5 star effort. At best, a 4 for good.
Giving a 5 for a half ass effort IS a participation trophy.

 

[WretchRoad]

Giving a 5 for a half ass effort IS a participation trophy.

You're putting words in my mouth now. Err, type in my type. Letters in my post?

Anyway, I don't think anything productive can come from this conversation. Have a good one.

 

[alohadave]

Or take an averaging approach that eliminates the extremeties (top and bottom 5% for example), and then base means average on the remainder

SOL does this. Throw out the top and bottom 5% of scores and grade the scores on a curve (with 6 as the midpoint). Doesn't solve anything, 1 bombs still happen, and authors complain about them there just as much as we do here.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

There's one little thing all of you who suffer from persistent trolls can do. You can report the story in question and hope a mod will take a look at the scores. It doesn't happen often, but it still happens sometimes. Be persistent.




You click the report button in the lower right corner of the story page, choose "Other" in the drop-down menu, and then write "Fraudulent voting" in the field below.