Writing advice

[iwatchus]

So, I spent most of the weekend watching Brandon Sanderson's lectures on writing SF&F, from a course he teaches at BYU. (For anyone interested. it's here) I'm still processing the info. But I have some reactions.

For some background, I have never had any training at all in writing fiction, other than a few weeks here and there in high school. I never took a single English class in college. I was taught to write proper academic writing in grad school, but that is largely very different. Whatever I do is either instinct from past reading, although I have not read much fiction in over forty years, or from the discussions on this forum. (Yes it does happen and it is useful.)

First, I would not have been ready to take advantage of these lectures six months ago before I started writing again. Probably not even three months ago. I needed to spend more time writing first. I have written just over 650K words in the last six-plus months and I learned a lot about writing and myself in that.

Second, it has me reconsidering what I want to be writing, probably shifting me to more novels. I have been writing mostly novella length stories, but finished my first novel (120K) about a month ago.

Third, I think my revisioning will be better. I hope so at least. Not my strong suit, to say the least. I think it will make me a better editor/reader for others, I role I find I am enjoying in limited dose (i.e., I am not looking for additional writers to read for at this time.)

Fourth, that man has a massive ego.

Are there other resources people would recommend?

Finally a big thank you to @TheRedLantern (and I guess indirectly @ChloeTzang ) for pointing me at the lectures. I do think it will make me a better writer and reader for other writers.

 

[iwatchus]

There was one other resource I meant to mention and forgot before I pushed post.

I had tried reading(and I will try again now that I have written more) was an e-book from Melissa Blue called Damn Good Story. I enjoyed parts of it, but I think I wasn't ready for some of the things it was trying to tell me.

 

[StillStunned]

I know what you mean about not being ready for some information until you've written and written and written. Sometimes you need to recognise your own habits or shortcomings.

Last year I spent a lot of time listening to audiobooks about writing fiction and/or fantasy. Like you, I've never had any formal instruction in writing fiction. Yes, I have an MA in English Language & Literature, but except for a single 1k-word story it never involved any fiction. It was a serious university, with no time for nonsense like people trying to add their own input to the corpus of English literature.

Anyway, of all the audiobooks I listened to, I found that the ones on editing were the most useful. If you want to write novels, I suppose the various "Save the Cat" books have helpful tips about plotting, but I'm not there yet. So advice about editing has been the most use to me.

Even then, as I've noted on this forum occasionally, very little of the advice focuses on the sentence and paragraph level. Nobody talks about the rhythm of the language, or writing for readers who mostly read on their phones, or how to write sentences and paragraphs that keep the reader engaged.

There's a lot of information about structuring stories, but not much, as far as I can tell, about writing them.

 

[Nynah]

Fourth, that man has a massive ego.

I'm so glad you caught this so I didn't have to point it out. The man is entitled in the extreme so while some of his advice is good, it's hard to take him seriously sometimes because he just lives in a completely different world than the rest of us and his perspectives are clearly shaped by that.

If you don't mind structured workshops, I can recommend Flights of Foundry. It's free (but there is an option to donate and they run on donations) and they tend to attract some pretty good authors year to year (this year they have Vajra Chandrasekera who wrote a few of my favorite books in the past years), their content is for the most part pretty useful if you like sci-fi or fantasy and again, it's free!

Since you're getting into novels/novellas (and revising them), I can recommend Matt Bell's Refuse to Be Done. It's concise and practical, all while being encouraging and enthusiastic about the craft. I really enjoyed it and am trying to apply a lot of his advice in my own writing.

Finally, if you're into listening to things on the go, I can recommend the Writing Excuses podcast. This has been going for many many years and has a lot of good guests and industry knowledge and I'm sure you'll find at least one or two episodes on something you're interested in.

 

[iwatchus]

Anyway, of all the audiobooks I listened to, I found that the ones on editing were the most useful. If you want to write novels, I suppose the various "Save the Cat" books have helpful tips about plotting, but I'm not there yet. So advice about editing has been the most use to me.

Sanderson mentioned Save The Cat.

Do you have suggestions for resources to learn editing?

 

[iwatchus]

I'm so glad you caught this so I didn't have to point it out. The man is entitled in the extreme so while some of his advice is good, it's hard to take him seriously sometimes because he just lives in a completely different world than the rest of us and his perspectives are clearly shaped by that.

If you don't mind structured workshops, I can recommend Flights of Foundry. It's free (but there is an option to donate and they run on donations) and they tend to attract some pretty good authors year to year (this year they have Vajra Chandrasekera who wrote a few of my favorite books in the past years), their content is for the most part pretty useful if you like sci-fi or fantasy and again, it's free!

Since you're getting into novels/novellas (and revising them), I can recommend Matt Bell's Refuse to Be Done. It's concise and practical, all while being encouraging and enthusiastic about the craft. I really enjoyed it and am trying to apply a lot of his advice in my own writing.

Finally, if you're into listening to things on the go, I can recommend the Writing Excuses podcast. This has been going for many many years and has a lot of good guests and industry knowledge and I'm sure you'll find at least one or two episodes on something you're interested in.

I am not sure how I would do with the workshop. I don't always manage to play nicely with others (as some of my arguments here can attest to)

Thanks for the other recommendations. And I will think about the workshop.

 

[WaxPhilosophic]

Not even 2 minutes in and dude's ego is up to 11. Still looks promising. Totally bookmarking it. Thanks for the link!

 

[StillStunned]

Do you have suggestions for resources to learn editing?

I've listened to "Intuitive Editing: A Creative and Practical Guide to Revising Your Writing" by Tiffany Yates Martin, and "Effective Editing: How to Take Your Writing to the Next Level" by Molly McCowan. Both had useful advice.

 

[lovecraft68]

It grew as my notoriety grew.

Click.

 

[iwatchus]

It grew as my notoriety grew.

Click.

I did try to warn you.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

The point about Sanderson's ego is interesting and somewhat surprising to me. I can't say that I noticed his ego being massive. His demeanor seems quite normal for the level of success he's had. He's also a good deal more open and honest about his opinion than most authors.
I have a ton of criticism for what he's done with The Stormlight Archive and the Mistborn, but criticizing the size of his ego never really occurred to me. Can you provide some examples, links, etc? I'm really curious.

 

[TheWritingGroup]

I'm so glad you caught this so I didn't have to point it out. The man is entitled in the extreme so while some of his advice is good, it's hard to take him seriously sometimes because he just lives in a completely different world than the rest of us and his perspectives are clearly shaped by that.
[snip]

Finally, if you're into listening to things on the go, I can recommend the Writing Excuses podcast. This has been going for many many years and has a lot of good guests and industry knowledge and I'm sure you'll find at least one or two episodes on something you're interested in.

You didn't mention: of course, Brandon is on the first several years of Writing Excuses.

I talked to him at a con for one minute once. That means we're on a first-name basis.

--Annie

 

[NotWise]

I spent several months listening to the "Writers on Writing" podcast. Their website is here. They now offer more than 25 years of interviews and discussion about writing.

It isn't an organized workshop, but they cover the lives and methods of the authors, editors and agents they interview, and they spend a lot of time talking about the how-to's of mainstream publishing. Novels are the big focus, but short stories and collections of short stories are also topics.

I started with the most recent podcasts and worked my way back, listening while I was driving to and from work. I'm not sure how far back I got, but I stopped after they interviewed an author who was a "regular guy" and a successful author. It made me realize that their usual guests weren't regular guys (or gals). They were mostly university academics and people with MFA's in writing. I felt like they were missing a huge segment of life and experience, and I lost interest.

Obviously, your mileage may vary, and the whole experience might be different if you listen in a different order.

 

[iwatchus]

I talked to him at a con for one minute once. That means we're on a first-name basis.

And if you become a best selling author, he will claim you are a friend who made the breakthrough because of that talk, I.m sure.

 

[lovecraft68]

I did try to warn you.

You did, but I figured it would take longer. I'm sure he knows his stuff, but I can't listen to anyone like that.

 

[TheWritingGroup]

And if you become a best selling author, he will claim you are a friend who made the breakthrough because of that talk, I.m sure.

I listened to his lectures and his (hundreds of) podcasts, and he never once took credit for someone else's writing.

--Annie

 

[StillStunned]

From before the days of audiobooks and pub ghasts, or whatever you young people are talking about, I also enjoyed "Sometimes The Magic Works", by Terry Brooks - offering a wonderful perspective from one of the writers who codified what modern fantasy is - and "How to Write Science-Fiction and Fantasy" by Orson Scott Card (regardless of his dubious personal views, the man knows a thing or two about writing).

 

[iwatchus]

I listened to his lectures and his (hundreds of) podcasts, and he never once took credit for someone else's writing.

--Annie

You're right. I guess he didn't take credit for anyone's writing, but he sure loved saying X is a friend of mine, talked tome about this, etc. It was one of his annoying tendencies.

 

[NuclearFairy]

You should check out the Princess Bride book, it has all kinds of helpful tips about cutting this or that bit out and why all disguised as storytelling.

 

[yowser]

My own preference is for real hold-in-your-hand books, and there are a half-dozen listed at https://www.librarything.com/catalog/Litbooks

[The whole thing is a compilation of AH regulars' most important books, but the subset in the 'writing' collection (upper left tab) has the various writing guides.]

Suzy Bright is always a pleasure and instructive but the absolute best is: The Emotional Craft of Fiction: How to Write the Story Beneath the Surface

 

[TheWritingGroup]

You're right. I guess he didn't take credit for anyone's writing, but he sure loved saying X is a friend of mine, talked tome about this, etc. It was one of his annoying tendencies.

I mean, I literally just did that by mentioning having talked to Brandon ....

--Annie

 

[TheLobster]

It grew as my notoriety grew.

Is this his ego he’s talking about, I wonder, or some other body part…

 

[lovecraft68]

Is this his ego he’s talking about, I wonder, or some other body part…

Don't arrogant men have a tendency to exaggerate all their attributes?

Have to find out what he drives, if its a large pick up, then we know the truth.

I need to do an essay here "The self-proclaimed Alpha, life's true Beta male

 

[NotWise]

Don't arrogant men have a tendency to exaggerate all their attributes?

Have to find out what he drives, if its a large pick up, then we know the truth.

I need to do an essay here "The self-proclaimed Alpha, life's true Beta male

I once (long time ago, now) saw a little old man driving a full-sized Hummer. Made me laugh. I described it to a friend, and his immediate response was "imagine how small his dick must be."

 

[SkyBubble]

So, I spent most of the weekend watching Brandon Sanderson's lectures on writing SF&F, from a course he teaches at BYU. (For anyone interested. it's here) I'm still processing the info. But I have some reactions.

For some background, I have never had any training at all in writing fiction, other than a few weeks here and there in high school. I never took a single English class in college. I was taught to write proper academic writing in grad school, but that is largely very different. Whatever I do is either instinct from past reading, although I have not read much fiction in over forty years, or from the discussions on this forum. (Yes it does happen and it is useful.)

First, I would not have been ready to take advantage of these lectures six months ago before I started writing again. Probably not even three months ago. I needed to spend more time writing first. I have written just over 650K words in the last six-plus months and I learned a lot about writing and myself in that.

Second, it has me reconsidering what I want to be writing, probably shifting me to more novels. I have been writing mostly novella length stories, but finished my first novel (120K) about a month ago.

Third, I think my revisioning will be better. I hope so at least. Not my strong suit, to say the least. I think it will make me a better editor/reader for others, I role I find I am enjoying in limited dose (i.e., I am not looking for additional writers to read for at this time.)

Fourth, that man has a massive ego.

Are there other resources people would recommend?

Finally a big thank you to @TheRedLantern (and I guess indirectly @ChloeTzang ) for pointing me at the lectures. I do think it will make me a better writer and reader for other writers.

You never took a single composition class or a 101 level lit class?