I think that 2-5000 people, randomly selected, meets the threshold of statistical significance. In other words, you wouldn't see much, if any, difference in the responses.
Married and Cheating Statistics
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If you want a man who is less likely to ever cheat, then chose a man who is unlikely to ever be tempted by other women - ie., a man other women don't find particularly attractive.
As for me? I'd rather have a partner who will make my knees weak for the next 50 years even if it means every so often she gives in to the constant temptation that surrounds her. And it surrounds her because she makes other men's knees weak too...
There's nothing noble or virtuous about a marriage where there is no infidelity, but there is also no longer any physical attraction toward each other..
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Live4themoments
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Interesting point. For me I can't say it's resentment or loathing. It's become a why bother attitude when I know any and all advances or suggestions will be met with rejection. It's way easier not even to try and avoid rejections, and just keep an open mind if the right opportunity comes along.
BornNorCal
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I understand this completely. Sometimes it's too late to repair what got broken along the way.
As I've said countless times... The institution of marriage needs rethinking, especially here in the US where nearly half of all marriages end in divorce, and of those that don't, not all are particularly healthy or happy. To me, that is pretty clear evidence that an institution needs to evolve.
One important change would be the acknowledgment that for some people, having sex with just ONE person for 50-60 years is a completely unreasonable expectation that may conflict with one's natural sexual wiring. And a person's eventual need for sex outside of the marriage may not be foreseeable when people get married, so they make a promise that ends up being quite unnatural for one or both of them to keep.
I believe that occasional sex outside of a marriage should, for lack of a better word, be decriminalized. A couple should expect that this need could arise for one or both and should be discussed openly, honestly, and allowed with agreed upon rules that help protect the marriage.
One important change would be the acknowledgment that for some people, having sex with just ONE person for 50-60 years is a completely unreasonable expectation that may conflict with one's natural sexual wiring. And a person's eventual need for sex outside of the marriage may not be foreseeable when people get married, so they make a promise that ends up being quite unnatural for one or both of them to keep.
I believe that occasional sex outside of a marriage should, for lack of a better word, be decriminalized. A couple should expect that this need could arise for one or both and should be discussed openly, honestly, and allowed with agreed upon rules that help protect the marriage.
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Islander55
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You make some very good points here. In the not too distant past, marriage was more about owning a woman than a partnership and it has been a slow process to move beyond that. The other key issue is that I do not think monogamy is natural for people. There is always that desire for something new and different. For most women the middle years are very hectic with children, jobs and a household to take care of so sexual desire takes a back seat in every day life. Forming a relationship at work may well provide something that is missing from a hectic home life. Certainly if traveling on business, a woman may well have free time in the evening that is free of the demands usually part of life at home. So a free night, a nice dinner, maybe a few drinks can do wonders for the libido. Easy to imagine becoming aroused and taking advantage of the moment.
Yes it is a loss. Miss the feel of a womens body
Exactly, marriage is not a certificate of ownership. It's a promise that you put another person's happiness before yours. ..And if his/ her happiness necessitates occasionally being with other people, well... that's what should happen, albeit with rules that serve to protect the primacy of the marriage. This is not the same as having an "Open Marriage" where each is free to pursue on-going romantic relationship with others, I'm referring to NSA hookups with someone they'll seldom or never see again.
Yep, I've been on a lot of business trips over the years and have seen lot's of one-night hookups between co-workers - usually between people who don't directly work together, and usually work in different offices. They usually meet at group meetings, then cocktail hour, then hatch a plan to hookup during after dinner drinks. And many have their spouses blessing to do this. My wife has mine. I like that it's far from home (so kids and family/ friends don't see it) and that she's with someone who, because their identify known, can be trusted to respect her expressed boundaries. This is much safer than her sleeping with some random guy she who comes on to her at the hotel bar. Plus, since these men live in other cities, she will probably never (or seldom) see him again.
I probably wouldn't have been ok with it during the first 15 years of our marriage. ..But once the concrete on our marriage had fully cured. ...no problem with it whatsoever. In the end, I want my wife to be a highly sexual person. I see giving her the space to occasionally be with other men as a means to that end.
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Islander55
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I suspect this concept becomes easier to handle when we are older for both men and women. A lot of it happens without the spouse knowing but it is much better when there is an agreement.
dingdongditchding
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women can literally fuck all day and night.
dingdongditchding
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I know how you feel and I have no one except my good pals at the V A
This is perhaps the most interesting statistic. To me, this makes it clear that MOST people are not naturally monogamous and MOST married people have a pent up desire to be with someone other than their spouse. And I'd bet the percentage of women would be the same as men if not for the fact that women attach a greater amount of shame to this desire. I believe the percentages would be higher for both - perhaps close to 100% - if the shame of desiring to be with others was replaced with an understanding that it's a normal and healthy desire that nearly all of us experience..
This underscores my point that the overall success rate of marriages would be better served by husbands and wives understanding the inevitability of these desires and finding ways to satisfy them while protecting the marriage.
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EternityGhost14
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I feel like any type of cheating statistic is almost certainly underreported. Even if one feels genuinely anonymous, I can imagine psychologically it would be hard to answer yes on a “have you cheated?” question if your partner doesn’t know about it/it’s a secret.
What I’m curious about: are there partners who genuinely would NEVER cheat? Or does everyone have a circumstance: a certain celebrity, a context, etc., where they would?
What I’m curious about: are there partners who genuinely would NEVER cheat? Or does everyone have a circumstance: a certain celebrity, a context, etc., where they would?
That makes perfect sense to me, I don’t think the human species is a monogamous one but we are 100% ruled by instinctual safety (especially women who face a higher risk vs lower reward).
If the risk is minimal and the reward is high the brakes are more likely come off
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liqueur
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Often so-called “major studies” will have samples even much lower than that. In the hundreds, even.
I was in an abusive marriage to a woman. I was a work-at-home, stay-at-home dad who handled the kids while working simultaneously. It was never easy. There were days it felt like I had to be in three places at once. And the effort that I placed into our children -- making sure they turned into well-adjusted, well-educated adults -- was never appreciated. So I started having affairs, too. The ladies were all married. Each was over 40. Some were overweight. Some were not. But each one was beautiful in her own way. Like me, they were looking for an emotional connection and a physical one, too. Today, I'm divorced and living with one of those women. It's a very satisfying and healthy relationship compared to the one I had with my ex-wife. I'm not advocating for divorce, but it worked me. I get what you're saying. I wish you all the best.
liqueur
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You must have been really busy then...
Live4themoments
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"If the risk is minimal and the reward is high the brakes are more likely come offThat makes perfect sense to me, I don’t think the human species is a monogamous one but we are 100% ruled by instinctual safety (especially women who face a higher risk vs lower reward).
If the risk is minimal and the reward is high the brakes are more likely come off
."Interesting post, so now I have to ask. Guy's minimal risk and high rewards are probably vastly different than females. Can you (or anyone else) elaborate from a female perspective what makes minimal risks vs high rewards? Not really referring to the obvious such as drop dead gorgeous, filthy rich, etc. Just the average Joe Smo's and Mary Jane's qualities or lack thereof.
From my perspective risks would be disharmony in general (not just the current relationship), social exclusion and or devaluation of worthiness are the brakes.
Men and women both face this but it’s policed more heavily by society towards women’s sexual behaviour (sometimes obsessively).
I’ve noticed women are more likely to cheat if there is already disharmony in the relationship (this one seems like a bigger factor for women then men), if they already feel distanced from society and have a complicated relationship with self esteem.
Women are much more likely to be consensually non-Monogamous in a relationship if the relationship is secure, the community is accepting and they have a good relationship with their self esteem, the brakes come off and the throttle is well and truely on.
I haven’t found that looks are the deciding factor in monogamy for the women around me, the not so pretty cheat as much as the pretty lol. Opportunity (for women) doesn’t seem to change the risk of cheating relationship security seems to matter much more in the end.
Men and women both face this but it’s policed more heavily by society towards women’s sexual behaviour (sometimes obsessively).
I’ve noticed women are more likely to cheat if there is already disharmony in the relationship (this one seems like a bigger factor for women then men), if they already feel distanced from society and have a complicated relationship with self esteem.
Women are much more likely to be consensually non-Monogamous in a relationship if the relationship is secure, the community is accepting and they have a good relationship with their self esteem, the brakes come off and the throttle is well and truely on.
I haven’t found that looks are the deciding factor in monogamy for the women around me, the not so pretty cheat as much as the pretty lol. Opportunity (for women) doesn’t seem to change the risk of cheating relationship security seems to matter much more in the end.
Live4themoments
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Thanks, so complicated is life
It's difficult to expect every couple to have the same likes and dislikes they had at say aged twenty when they first met to that at say sixty.
They are likely to change sexually, emotionally, physically, religiously as well as differing in artistic, musical, political and day to day likes and changes.
It feels almost impossible that two people could spend a lifetime together being true to their individual feelings.
I do however applaud those that do.
They are likely to change sexually, emotionally, physically, religiously as well as differing in artistic, musical, political and day to day likes and changes.
It feels almost impossible that two people could spend a lifetime together being true to their individual feelings.
I do however applaud those that do.
policywank
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I think that most of what we have been taught about gender based differences in sexuality - including the propensity to cheat and why we cheat - lacks objectivity and is often contrived to suit a male centric view of the world.
Men have sought to perpetuate the notion that it is somehow more natural for men to stray as a way to justify giving themselves the latitude to do so while not affording the same latitude to women. For much of history women were expected to accept the "oh well boys will be boys" mentality alongside the premise that a woman who dared stray was evil incarnate and deserved the harshest possible punishment. Meanwhile the notion that women were naturally monogamous because we needed a man to provide for us existed alongside societal rules that precluded us from providing for ourselves without the slightest awareness of the contradiction. And the premise that the complexity of the female orgasm and sexual capacity of women might make us more suited to seeking diverse sexual experiences was not even considered.
To the extent that we accept that women do stray we have tried to convince ourselves that for women it is inevitably due to something emotional lacking in the marriage rather than simple sexual desire as is usually the case for men. I am aware of no evidence to support this distinction aside from stereotypes about female behaviour gleaned from baseless assumptions and anecdotal evidence of female behaviour in a patriarchal society that punishes women for not complying or pretending to comply with their stereotypes. Reality is that both men and women may stray for any number of reasons. Recent work by sociologist Alicia Walker on the topic of why men and women cheat actually turned conventional thinking on its head. Her work suggested that women who cheat are just as likely as men if not more so to stray in search of sexual fulfillment and empowerment and men are at least as likely as women if not more so to stray in search of an emotional intimacy or sense of security missing in their marriage.
I think that to some degree men want to see it the opposite way because that portrays them in a more favourable (in their view) light. They prefer to see themselves as sexual animals rather than emotionally needy. Meanwhile if their partner cheats on them men would prefer to think that it was because it was because they were emotionally distant (thought of as a masculine trait, albeit imperfect) rather than because she was seeking a better sexual experience (the ultimate offence to the male ego).
As if to further tweak the male take on things I noted two other conclusions of her work. Firstly when asked their ideal cock size in a husband and ideal cock size in a cheating partner, the latter was on average an inch larger than the former (ouch - yup she is acting based upon sexual desire and that includes looking for bigger). Secondly, when asked if they would consider an open marriage the women were substantially more inclined to say yes.
Personally I do think that male and female sexuality differs in many ways. But those differences are not accurately reflected in conventional thinking which is heavily influenced by men, how they want to see themselves and the power they have consistently tried to exercise over women. In a world where women have as much freedom as men we are just as likely to cheat and at least as likely to be doing so purely in search of sexual pleasure.
Men have sought to perpetuate the notion that it is somehow more natural for men to stray as a way to justify giving themselves the latitude to do so while not affording the same latitude to women. For much of history women were expected to accept the "oh well boys will be boys" mentality alongside the premise that a woman who dared stray was evil incarnate and deserved the harshest possible punishment. Meanwhile the notion that women were naturally monogamous because we needed a man to provide for us existed alongside societal rules that precluded us from providing for ourselves without the slightest awareness of the contradiction. And the premise that the complexity of the female orgasm and sexual capacity of women might make us more suited to seeking diverse sexual experiences was not even considered.
To the extent that we accept that women do stray we have tried to convince ourselves that for women it is inevitably due to something emotional lacking in the marriage rather than simple sexual desire as is usually the case for men. I am aware of no evidence to support this distinction aside from stereotypes about female behaviour gleaned from baseless assumptions and anecdotal evidence of female behaviour in a patriarchal society that punishes women for not complying or pretending to comply with their stereotypes. Reality is that both men and women may stray for any number of reasons. Recent work by sociologist Alicia Walker on the topic of why men and women cheat actually turned conventional thinking on its head. Her work suggested that women who cheat are just as likely as men if not more so to stray in search of sexual fulfillment and empowerment and men are at least as likely as women if not more so to stray in search of an emotional intimacy or sense of security missing in their marriage.
I think that to some degree men want to see it the opposite way because that portrays them in a more favourable (in their view) light. They prefer to see themselves as sexual animals rather than emotionally needy. Meanwhile if their partner cheats on them men would prefer to think that it was because it was because they were emotionally distant (thought of as a masculine trait, albeit imperfect) rather than because she was seeking a better sexual experience (the ultimate offence to the male ego).
As if to further tweak the male take on things I noted two other conclusions of her work. Firstly when asked their ideal cock size in a husband and ideal cock size in a cheating partner, the latter was on average an inch larger than the former (ouch - yup she is acting based upon sexual desire and that includes looking for bigger). Secondly, when asked if they would consider an open marriage the women were substantially more inclined to say yes.
Personally I do think that male and female sexuality differs in many ways. But those differences are not accurately reflected in conventional thinking which is heavily influenced by men, how they want to see themselves and the power they have consistently tried to exercise over women. In a world where women have as much freedom as men we are just as likely to cheat and at least as likely to be doing so purely in search of sexual pleasure.
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Love your entire post PW. But, as to the above...
This is far from the final word on "do women want bigger cocks" debate. After all, her study cohort may not be representative of the overall population of women. Again, I will point to the fact that when women purchase dildos they overwhelmingly prefer those that are about the size of the average penis. That said, and to your point, there is another study where women are asked to select from an array of phalluses the length/girth they would prefer for their husband AND their preference for of a one night stand. For a husband, they chose average length and girth. For a one-night stand, they chose very slightly longer and thicker. ..But only slightly - like 1/4". And if you think of it, that's not surprising. If you're going to have sex with someone other than your husband, you'd probably want his dick to feel different than his, and slightly longer length and thicker girth is going to assure it feels different.
Anyway, I don't want to turn this into a "do women lust for huge cocks" discussion. Bravo on your post. Well said.
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policywank
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Her study is clearly not representative of all women because it was specifically of women who cheat (just as her study of men was of men who cheat). And the cock size preference was modest at 1”. I’m not actually clear on what the reference size was for that differential observation but clearly they were not saying they wanted monster cocks, but rather that they’d like to try slightly larger. I perceive it more in the context of sexual curiosity and variety and that being one of the things the women were curious about. The point isn’t that all women want bigger but that we can and do the same urges for “other” that men have.
