Self-editing for authors

[StillStunned]

A thread with useful examples of how to punctuate dialogue.

 

[FrancesScott]

A thread with useful examples of how to punctuate dialogue.

I feel like I did a good thing (“For a change,” came loudly from the peanut gallery).

 

[StillStunned]

I feel like I did a good thing (“For a change,” came loudly from the peanut gallery).

I feel the same way about my two stickied threads, after nearly 9000 posts.

 

[RagnarHairyBreeches]

It can be tedious using direct speech and having to add quote marks continually. Solution: leave them out in your early drafts. Start each piece of direct speech on a new line starting with a dash. Perhaps dash & Letter to indicate who says what. Exclude the tags as to who says what. They can be added later as the chapter is developed. Who knows, you might end up deleting heaps, and to have spent time with quote marks and tags would have been a waste of time. I also find that different font colours help make things clear during the early editing stages. Particularly if there are more than two characters speaking.

 

[StillStunned]

It can be tedious using direct speech and having to add quote marks continually. Solution: leave them out. Start each piece of direct speech on a new line starting with a dash. Perhaps dash & Letter to indicate who says what. Exclude the tags as to who says what. They can be added later as the chapter is developed. Who knows, you might end up deleting heaps, and to have spent time with quote marks and tags would have been a waste of time. I also find that different font colours help make things clear during the early editing stages. Particularly if there are more than two characters speaking.

If this works for you, then that's great. But how does adding quotation marks require any effort? And most of the time, for me at least, the dialogue is embedded in paragraphs, with action to denote who's speaking.

That said, I can imagine this working very well if you're dictating your story instead of typing it.

 

[FrancesScott]

As @StillStunned was kind enough to add a link to the thread I made punctuation comments on, here is a link to the short essay I published based on these same comments (with some additional input from @Laurel herself):

How To… Punctuated Dialogue

 

[RagnarHairyBreeches]

I've edited my post to make it clearer.

I wasn't advocating the exclusion of quotation marks from the text. They serve a purpose, after all. What I was suggesting, was that during the early developmental work, when pen fist hits paper, so to speak, that you consider skipping them. It's easier and quicker to type. Fingers don't need to leave the keyboard to add a dash, but they do when adding quotation marks. While ideas are in one's mind, if a light bulb moment strikes you, getting the idea down is more important than troubling one's self with punctuation. Punctuation issues can be corrected at any time. Later, in subsequent drafts. In my case, usually close to the final draft.

It's not my own idea. I picked it up when reading Cry The Beloved Country. Check out the link. Direct speech starts on p. 8. https://www.google.com.au/books/edi...AQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&pg=PA1&printsec=frontcover

When I first read this I thought the style was kind of weird, but quickly became comfortable with it. It's rather unconventional, to be sure, and I doubt I'd ever use it, but for a draft it is useful, and that reason I suggested it.

 

[NuclearFairy]

I've edited my post to make it clearer.

I wasn't advocating the exclusion of quotation marks from the text. They serve a purpose, after all. What I was suggesting, was that during the early developmental work, when pen fist hits paper, so to speak, that you consider skipping them. It's easier and quicker to type. Fingers don't need to leave the keyboard to add a dash, but they do when adding quotation marks. While ideas are in one's mind, if a light bulb moment strikes you, getting the idea down is more important than troubling one's self with punctuation. Punctuation issues can be corrected at any time. Later, in subsequent drafts. In my case, usually close to the final draft.

It's not my own idea. I picked it up when reading Cry The Beloved Country. Check out the link. Direct speech starts on p. 8. https://www.google.com.au/books/edi...AQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&pg=PA1&printsec=frontcover

When I first read this I thought the style was kind of weird, but quickly became comfortable with it. It's rather unconventional, to be sure, and I doubt I'd ever use it, but for a draft it is useful, and that reason I suggested it.

Depends on your keyboard. For me dashes are way up by the numbers, whereas quotation marks are right by my pinky.

 

[StillStunned]

It seems I've been harping on about this topic for a long time: StillStunned's collection of useful pointers for writers. A 6-page thread with a lot of nonsense but also some tips and tricks from various forum members.

 

[GrantBricksly]

I recently helped a friend out by reading their story/book/not sure what she is calling it yet.

She has tried to get several people (including her wife) to read it, I was the first that followed through.

And while her story was good, the writing was a bit of a mess. I know this thread is about self-editing, but I figured some of the things I did while editing her story would be helpful here as well.

First thing I did, was have a notepad open and every time I found any sort of issue at all (spelling, grammar, etc) I made a note. In order, starting from chapter 1, all the way to the end. If something didn't make sense, but there was a chance it MIGHT get explained later, I still noted it, just in case. (obviously that part is less likely to be of use here when you are editing your own stuff, you know what you did and didn't write later in your own story.)

Some of the things I noticed a lot of:

Repetitive wording/phrases:
There were several times that a word or phrase was repeated several several times. sometimes it was in quick succession. Sometimes it was over several chapters. But when it's a phrase, even several chapters apart, if it's said often enough, it doesn't matter. "They didn't say anything. They didn't have to." Was something she wrote at the beginning of almost every morning that she wrote about. Chapter 3 had it, chapter 6 had it twice, chapter 8 had it, chapter 9, chapter 12, etc...it got old...real quick.

Inconsistencies in the story across chapters:
In one part of the book a character mentions that she had found something when she was 15. Then two chapters later suddenly some random unknown man had brought her there when "she was young" and then a bit later, she had come there off and on through out her childhood...

Timing:
Her timelines were hard to follow. There were times that it felt like there was a time jump, but there wasn't...but maybe there was...things got very confusing..lol

Labeling:
She had 2 chapter 15s. 2 Chapter 19s. A chapter 13, and a chapter 13 1/2.

Anyways...I found the process of editing her book, brought some clarity to my own writing. And I liked the way it worked out. So I think That's what I will start doing for myself. I'm going to give it a day or two (maybe a week) and then sit down and read it, with a notepad open to take notes. (no editing as I read) This way, I can then go back and look through my notes the next day, and decide if the notes make sense or not, and then begin editing.

I'd love to do the text-to-speech read-aloud thing, but I have kids, and rarely do I have opportunities to do something like that when it would be appropriate to have the things I am writing being read out loud.

 

[StillStunned]

Anyways...I found the process of editing her book, brought some clarity to my own writing. And I liked the way it worked out. So I think That's what I will start doing for myself. I'm going to give it a day or two (maybe a week) and then sit down and read it, with a notepad open to take notes. (no editing as I read) This way, I can then go back and look through my notes the next day, and decide if the notes make sense or not, and then begin editing.

I'd been a professional editor for more than 20 years before I started writing. It definitely makes you more aware of *what* you're writing, and *how*.

A translator I know tells her colleagues to try editing, to as a way to becoming a better writer and so a better translator.

 

[GrantBricksly]

I'd been a professional editor for more than 20 years before I started writing. It definitely makes you more aware of *what* you're writing, and *how*.

A translator I know tells her colleagues to try editing, to as a way to becoming a better writer and so a better translator.

This had been my first time ever doing it. Other than my own work of course. It was...interesting... And at times painful..lol

My biggest problem (which is one of the benefits of this thread) is finding someone else to edit my work. My wife will always read/edit my work...but she is just as biased of my work as I am. She loves my writing. She will find spelling errors...and she loves to kill my commas (I love commas....a little too much to be fair...but she kills them )
But she is NOT a writer...so when it comes to whether or not the story flows well...and things like that...I really need another author, or a editor to do that..

 

[TheGreatOz]

Never publish in a hurry. Read it. Read it in the cold light of the following day. Then read it again. Read and re-read it until you've detected every inconsistency or awkwardness, every typo, every flaw.

If you're doing a multi-part read all the parts in every reading.

Then leave it the fuck alone for a few days then read it all again.

 

[StillStunned]

Never publish in a hurry. Read it. Read it in the cold light of the following day. Then read it again. Read and re-read it until you've detected every inconsistency or awkwardness, every typo, every flaw.

If you're doing a multi-part read all the parts in every reading.

Then leave it the fuck alone for a few days then read it all again.

I'm not telling you not to do this, but have you tried text-to-speech? It reads aloud the words that are there, not what you think is there. You have to sit and watch the highlight skip from word to word, and it's tedious, but you'll catch more typos, inconsistencies and awkward phrasing this way than you ever will be reading the story yourself.

 

[RagnarHairyBreeches]

text to speech is the best. If it sounds good, it probably is good.

 

[LargoKitt]

I find that two things help me.

Firstly, when I pick up a piece I read back over my most recent additions before continuing to write. It's an odd day that I don't find something to improve before I continue on to the blank page. This often means that when I come to a full edit, a lot of the grunt work (typos, missing punctuation, shifting dialogue around) has already been done and I can focus on larger issues.

Secondly, I make simple notes in italics (so they are easily seen) as I go along. This reminds me about changes I might want to make later while editing but which I don't want to focus on at that moment. When you have the beginnings of 'old man memory' this is very helpful.

Some advisors suggest always starting your writing day with writing and save editing for later. I think different people react differently to their 'bumps in the road'. For some it gets them right into the process. The 'I can make this better' moments lead right to where the story is going. Others start to beat themselves up and their blue funk clouds the creative process. I follow a general rule and that is that if something 'feels wrong' (and I try to stay at the gut level) then I am being 'pointed at' how it could be better. Sometimes I feel it is better just to note places to redo and not start rewriting; but that is easier on paper with a real 'blue pencil.' Save most punctuation and grammar tweaking for a later stage when you give yourself a 'bird's eye view', like you aren't the person who wrote the story.

 

[RagnarHairyBreeches]

When re-reading sections of dialogue in the early draft stages, at times I've thought it feels clunky. Got to do something about that. Notions of, they wouldn't say that. They're more likely to say this instead. So, I make the change, then another, then another.

Sometimes my edits improve a simple exchange, but a lot of the time the conversation takes me in an entirely different direction. Somewhere to where I wasn't expecting. Bizarre as it sounds, I often let my characters direct where the conversation goes rather than me, and of course, that changes the story somewhat. As an author, I'm just along for the ride.

 

[SoCalAshley]

When I’m done with my story, including countless editing, I will always print the story before I submit. No matter how well I think that I have found typos, grammar mistakes, and usage mistakes, I always find a few that I missed by just reading the story on my computer screen.

 

[HordHolm]

I think it's worth restating at this point the different elements editing can consist of:

1. Editing for mistakes - finding typos, grammatical errors, spelling mistakes, correctly spelled words in the wrong place.

2. Editing for comprehension - does the structure of what has been written actually match what is intended? Will what is written make sense to the reader? Is there internal logic? Are the pronouns confusing (in a situation with multiple characters)? Are the sentences too long? Are there too many embedded sentences/non-defining clauses?

3. Editing for style, pace, 'quality' - the other types of editing are technical, but this form of editing is more 'literary'. This is when the author can look at elements such as the richness of the language, the feeling that the language evokes, and whether the language used will stimulate the required response in the reader. Authors may wish to ensure the literary style is consistent - minimalist or maximalist. Other elements might also include how fast the story is moving, the 'space' in the text, or even, (eek!) is it any good?

There is obviously more, but it is worth remembering that editing should be both technical and qualitative.

 

[RagnarHairyBreeches]

A piece of advice I came across was to study each sentence individually, studying each one for problems, but the point of the note was to read each one in reverse order. Start from the last sentence in the last chapter working your way to the first sentence in the first chapter. The idea behind that was that you would be focused on sentence structure rather than being distracted by story content.

 

[TheAlphabetGirl]

Something that is often mentioned, but bears repeating: edit cold. This means leaving the story until any arousal has passed and only then picking it up to edit. It's at that point that I can see if the sex is actually any good, rather than a fever dream stream of consciousness that vomited itself out of my brain the night before. If it still does something for me the next day (or ideally, the next week), then I have something reasonable.

ʼa fever dream stream of consciousness that vomited itself out of my brain the night beforeʼ - I do this all the time!

Great tip!!

 

[TheAlphabetGirl]

Something bought to mind by the omission @StillStunned made in his post upthread is the over-reliance on spelling and grammar checkers in Word. Most people write in Word, and TBH there are many things I dislike about it (my main 'steam-out-of-the-ears' issue is its habit of resetting to US English no matter how many times I tell it I want British English as default). Anyway... Word will highlight spelling and grammar errors, but will often not notice an omission/incorrect spelling, because what it is reading is grammatically correct/correct spelling, even if it is completely the opposite of what is intended. It is easy to skim a document looking for those red and blue wavy lines, but if you restrict your editing to that, be prepared to miss some massive errors.

So here is a question (or two).

I started to use Google word docs as i read somewhere else on here that the historic tracking of corrections, edits and how the story evolved is recorded and if ever you come across the situation of a challenge ʼis this AI generatedʼ. you are able to prove other wise.

Q1. True?!

I battle with the US spelling issue and change it back to the UK as thatʼs my language. But most readers are in the US so....I am adding an extra layer of effort into editing for me as opposed to the majority of readers?

Q2. Best to stay authentic - right?! even though closely related language nuisances are not the same therefore be proud to be a British author and I will fall in less pitfalls that way

thanks any for any guidance!

 

[HordHolm]

So here is a question (or two).

I started to use Google word docs as i read somewhere else on here that the historic tracking of corrections, edits and how the story evolved is recorded and if ever you come across the situation of a challenge ʼis this AI generatedʼ. you are able to prove other wise.

Q1. True?!

I battle with the US spelling issue and change it back to the UK as thatʼs my language. But most readers are in the US so....I am adding an extra layer of effort into editing for me as opposed to the majority of readers?

Q2. Best to stay authentic - right?! even though closely related language nuisances are not the same therefore be proud to be a British author and I will fall in less pitfalls that way

thanks any for any guidance!

Q1 - I honestly don't know. I'm a technological klutz who can barely send a text. I've never been faced with an AI generated rejection (so far), so I'll cross that bridge when/if I get to it.

Q2 - I use British English without any concern. I've never had a reader complain to me about it. I did once write a story in US English, rather experimentally, and nobody has yet seemed to notice that I'm not a native US English speaker. My own feeling is to write what you're comfortable with - there are so many other things to bear in mind when writing, and UK English doesn't seem to raise any eyebrows. It's probably worth baring in mind any confusing terminological differences, e.g. 'fag', but context should make meaning clear, most of the time. And I find that readers tend to be reasonably aware of the differences in English (or if they aren't, nobody has complained over my use of language). So... go ahead, write in British English, and don't worry too much about it.

 

[RagnarHairyBreeches]

context should make meaning clear, most of the time

Australia is swamped by US movies and TV shows. We get used to the terminology and sensitivities. I have to smile to myself whenever I hear reference to someone's need to go to the bathroom. Do they need to have a bath? That's what bathrooms are for. If you need to pee then you need to find a toilet. Yeah, I know, bathrooms sometimes have a toilet fitted.

But I was getting sidetracked. No doubt there are a lot of country specific quirks. The term fuck is pretty universal, probably in most countries. As is screw. Universal meaning. A very Australian term is root. Slang for fuck. ("How's the new girl friend?" "Great! We spent the whole weekend rooting.")

So when I hear someone (usually) on a US movie saying they've been rooting for the team I just about explode in laughter. Rooting for the team is not something an Aussie would ever say. Unless you're doing some gardening, rooting is not a word that's generally used in polite company, so to speak.

 

[SkyBubble]

It can be tedious using direct speech and having to add quote marks continually. Solution: leave them out in your early drafts. Start each piece of direct speech on a new line starting with a dash. Perhaps dash & Letter to indicate who says what. Exclude the tags as to who says what. They can be added later as the chapter is developed. Who knows, you might end up deleting heaps, and to have spent time with quote marks and tags would have been a waste of time. I also find that different font colours help make things clear during the early editing stages. Particularly if there are more than two characters speaking.

I don't find it tedious. It's just natural to me.