A place to discuss the craft of writing: tricks, philosophies, styles

[MelissaBaby]

So, moving on from dialects and accents before this thread bogs down...

Okay, fine. Nobody gets to know what a buhdada is.

 

[MelissaBaby]

My contribution:

When I'm editing a story, I pay close attention to physical items and details. My new story, for instance, mentions a character's phone and earbuds, another character's hat and sunglasses, and the patchy grass in a glade.

In the editing phase, I make sure that none of those details are left hanging. The character wearing the sunglasses has to take them off, and preferably tuck them away somewhere before the sex starts. The character with the phone drops it on the patchy grass, and has to remember to pick it up before she leaves.

In the same way, if a side character makes an appearance, I try to give their role an end moment, or a call-back.

I believe that these details make the story more complete. The reader might not notice them, but I think they would if I left them out. I don't want anyone to think to themselves, "But hey, wasn't he wearing sunglasses? How can she what colour his eyes are?" Or: "What happened to the saxophone player?" If you don't "close" the details, the reader might wonder why you mentioned them in the first place.

Even if they don't specifically notice that particular detail, they may nonetheless, have a feeling of something being "off" in the story.

Details matter, and I try not to let opportunities to use details to enrich the narrative or define characters go to waste.

For example, I have a rule that no character shall ever wear a ball cap or a t-shirt that does not have a message or logo on it.

In one story, the POV character is buying a cup of coffeee at the village store. I could have written:

"She took her coffee to the counter and waited in line."

Bleh, dull. Why waste an opportunity to add some life to it?

"She went to the counter to pay for it and waited while an elderly man in a Celtics jacket and a Navy veteran cap debated which scratch off tickets might be the luckiest."

 

[iwatchus]

I don't even think I'll try and guess what @MelissaBaby means by "buhdada" - it sounds extreme and obscene...!

I lived in Maine for seven years and have been trying to figure out what she meant.

 

[MelissaBaby]

I lived in Maine for seven years and have been trying to figure out what she meant.

You probably didn’t spend much time up in the County*, that’s how they pronounce potato up there.

* when Mainers say “the County” it always means Aroostook County.

 

[Rockofmarriages]

My first story was published today. I am a poet, so dialogue is not part of my repertoire. Too many times I've tried to craft a story with dialogue (unsuccessfully). Finally, I found a workaround. Only two lines of dialogue.

I am the oposite - prose to create mood, setting and dialog are my tools. Poetry is well beyond my abilities. I praise your style of work. -RoM-

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Even if they don't specifically notice that particular detail, they may nonetheless, have a feeling of something being "off" in the story.

Details matter, and I try not to let opportunities to use details to enrich the narrative or define characters go to waste.

For example, I have a rule that no character shall ever wear a ball cap or a t-shirt that does not have a message or logo on it.

In one story, the POV character is buying a cup of coffeee at the village store. I could have written:

"She took her coffee to the counter and waited in line."

Bleh, dull. Why waste an opportunity to add some life to it?

"She went to the counter to pay for it and waited while an elderly man in a Celtics jacket and a Navy veteran cap debated which scratch off tickets might be the luckiest."

I agree. Immersion is an important tool for me. I like to add detail to make the reader feel like they're really there in that coffee shop, or at the very least are watching this in a full sized theatre. In fact, as you talk about logos on hats and tees, I similarly try to put details into clothing and appearance that rise above, "green blouse, black skirt". Clothing has stripes and dots and plaids and paisleys on it and such, and people (especially women) accessorize with scarves and bracelets and funky boots etc. And not only does this help to immerse the reader, it also adds personality to the character. However, when I make this case on the forums I usually get shot down, "too much detail, I don't care about the message on the t-shirt if it has no bearing on the story. I hate that."

It works for you but not for me. So this either means that you're just a damn good writer and I suck ... or people here just have a personal axe to grind with me that they will extend (rightly or wrongly) to my writing techniques. ; )

 

[iwatchus]

You probably didn’t spend much time up in the County*, that’s how they pronounce potato up there.

* when Mainers say “the County” it always means Aroostook County.

No. I lived in rich people mid coast Maine, although I spent time visiting families of close friends in Bethel and Rangely areas, not rich folks, but also not potato country. O was never as far north as Aroostook. Makes sense and I can hear it once I got the stresses correct. I would have recognized the word having heard it, but not having read it. That's the danger of trying to spell unusual dialocts. It can be very hard to convey the sound as you intend it.

 

[StillStunned]

I am the oposite - prose to create mood, setting and dialog are my tools. Poetry is well beyond my abilities. I praise your style of work. -RoM-

There's a point where carefully crafted prose overlaps with poetry. Neither has to be flowery, or full of imagery, to be effective: English can be strong and beautiful using just simple words, as long as you get the sounds and rhythm right.

 

[AG31]

There's a point where carefully crafted prose overlaps with poetry. Neither has to be flowery, or full of imagery, to be effective: English can be strong and beautiful using just simple words, as long as you get the sounds and rhythm right.

Think Emily Dickinson.

 

[StillStunned]

Think Emily Dickinson.

I was thinking about myself, really, but sure.



Actually, a lot of the great writers achieve this to a greater or lesser degree.

 

[MelissaBaby]

However, when I make this case on the forums I usually get shot down, "too much detail, I don't care about the message on the t-shirt if it has no bearing on the story. I hate that."

It works for you but not for me. So this either means that you're just a damn good writer and I suck ... or people here just have a personal axe to grind with me that they will extend (rightly or wrongly) to my writing techniques. ; )

That's just ridiculous. So, it doesn't make any difference in the reader's impression of the character if their t-shirt has a Nirvana logo or Toby Keith's? If their cap says Red Sox or MAGA?

If you want your readers to accept your character as realistic, they have to exist in a realistic world, and even the most minor characters have to seem as real inhabitants of that world, even if the only hint of it is their favorite sports team or rock band.

 

[MelissaBaby]

No. I lived in rich people mid coast Maine, although I spent time visiting families of close friends in Bethel and Rangely areas, not rich folks, but also not potato country. O was never as far north as Aroostook. Makes sense and I can hear it once I got the stresses correct. I would have recognized the word having heard it, but not having read it. That's the danger of trying to spell unusual dialocts. It can be very hard to convey the sound as you intend it.

Exactly the point I was trying to make. Thank you. If I wrote phonetically accurate Maine dialogue, nobody south of the Piscatauqua would understand it.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

That's just ridiculous. So, it doesn't make any difference in the reader's impression of the character if their t-shirt has a Nirvana logo or Toby Keith's? If their cap says Red Sox or MAGA?

That's not the point. The point is that if you do it, it's immersive and realistic, but if I do it, it's over-wordy and boring. It's a double standard.

 

[MelissaBaby]

That's not the point. The point is that if you do it, it's immersive and realistic, but if I do it, it's over-wordy and boring. It's a double standard.

I understand, and you are right, it's not fair.

 

[AwkwardMD]

I had so much fun giving a dwarf an incomprehensible mishmash of a Scottish and Irish accent that, ten years later, I had to do it again just for old time's sake.

God help me if I ever find the right story premise to do it again.

 

[ElectricBlue]

That's not the point. The point is that if you do it, it's immersive and realistic, but if I do it, it's over-wordy and boring. It's a double standard.

It's the difference between Expressionism and Impressionism, just with a different palette and a different touch with the brush.

There's a new writer posted over in the Feedback Forum, where people are saying, too much detail, let readers bring their own imagination. I replied, well no, many readers don't have much imagination, your extra detail is perfect. Mind you, she did describe a little blue bralette, so she had me right there, with that lightest touch...

 

[Rockofmarriages]

There's a point where carefully crafted prose overlaps with poetry. Neither has to be flowery, or full of imagery, to be effective: English can be strong and beautiful using just simple words, as long as you get the sounds and rhythm right.

My writing skills hover somewhere between the incoherent grunts of a knuckle-dragging troglodyte trying to reinvent fire and the cryptic scribbles left behind on a cave wall after a particularly confusing encounter with a mammoth, which is to say, they are technically present but largely unintelligible to anyone with more than two functioning brain cells

 

[DeMont]

My writing skills hover somewhere between the incoherent grunts of a knuckle-dragging troglodyte trying to reinvent fire and the cryptic scribbles left behind on a cave wall after a particularly confusing encounter with a mammoth, which is to say, they are technically present but largely unintelligible to anyone with more than two functioning brain cells

@Rockofmarriages,
That's why you're here my dear Rock, to learn to be like us literary giants...!!!
Have a l'il faith, we got ya back, okay?
Respectfully,
D

 

[Rockofmarriages]

@Rockofmarriages,
That's why you're here my dear Rock, to learn to be like us literary giants...!!!
Have a l'il faith, we got ya back, okay?
Respectfully,
D

The lastest from this knuckle-dragging troglodyte is out and feral. I spent a LOT of time self-editing. We will see how it fares.

 

[DeMont]

The lastest from this knuckle-dragging troglodyte is out and feral. I spent a LOT of time self-editing. We will see how it fares.

@Rockofmarriages,
What's the title, I'll be looking for it my dear colleague?
Respectfully,D.

 

[Rockofmarriages]

@Rockofmarriages,
What's the title, I'll be looking for it my dear colleague?
Respectfully,D.

Aurora And The CCIC
https://www.literotica.com/s/aurora-and-the-ccic
-RoM-

 

[SkyBubble]

I want to be able to craft dialogue that doesn't bore. I am asking myself the question, "How can I create 'living breathing' dialogue as well as the feelings experienced by the characters when engaged in dialogue?". My first short story accomplished bringing my internal dialogue front and center. Next step bringing a 'not me' character's dialogue to the same standard.

There are sites that will read your text out loud. Perhaps you could go there and run your dialogue through the site(s.) If it sounds good, it will probably read naturally to the reader; if it doesn't, you might want to rewrite it.

Here's one such site: https://elevenlabs.io/text-to-speech

 

[SkyBubble]

Perhaps the most common axiom for good writing is "show, don't tell." Try thinking cinematically.

Yes, that's key.

 

[SkyBubble]

I will share what one of my Creative Writing professors said: The best writing is rewriting.

Oh, and 90% of your writing occurs in your head before it hits the page (or screen.)

 

[AG31]

That's a lovely line, but it isn't dialogue. Perhaps the most common axiom for good writing is "show, don't tell." Try thinking cinematically.

Except when telling is the way to go for that particular story and is done reallly well. I'll make note if I find such stories in the future.