Challenges in writing longer works

[Gamblnluck]

I know I’m probably boring people to death about writing my first novel . But…

One thing I struggle with is, the protagonist was very fixated on X in Part II, but the story has moved on by Part IV, and now they don’t seem to care that much about X.

I find myself constantly having to either write a graceful off ramp for X, or adding bits to say they still care about X, as X will be a big deal again in Part VI.

What aspects of longer works do you find challenging?

I stumbled into 2 very long stories, Slave Camp, and Gotta Pay the Piper. I had no intention to making them long when I started. After a bit, they became soap operas. Think of the never ending General Hospital on television. I had my conclusion for the end of Slave Camp long before I got there. I just had more story lines to tell in the process.
Characters come and go, they fill the screen for a time and then fade away. Various sub-plots appear. You don't really need an off-ramp. Just have X take up less space in the narrative. You could have him or her reappear at times.
Now, I'll admit, this is a weak way to plot out a novel. Gotta Pay the Piper is now 63 chapters. It is longer than War and Peace which is less than 600k words..

 

[EmilyMiller]

I've found the biggest challenge is staying in the story. Staying focused...
My approach to writing is it starts from the smallest things. An overheard conversation... A tabloid headline, a song, a lyric. Something infinitesimal. There's no plot or scheme, I just write.
I've produced a couple of 100,000 word stories. The one I'm working on at the moment is up to 130,00.
Somewhere in the course of it, there are sections that feel boring... Dull, lifeless, and it's hard to push through those...

I consider myself to be a creative person, writing is one of them. I can only get into it when the mood is right...
So if my current story is boring me silly. It's hard to keep motivated...
The one thing that helps me sustain the drive is allowing myself into the story. Becoming one of the characters...

Once the fun oozes out. It becomes tedious.

Cagivagurl

Inevitably in a longer work you need connective passages, lows between the highs. I try to find something of interest to add to those bits. Humor, or a new element to a character, or setting up a later pay off. But I agree these sections can be harder to write.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I’m pretty sure that this is one mistake I have avoided in my novel so far. It very much has a central arc. Things that happen along the way are virtually all in service of this arc.

To expand…

The story is episodic, but I try to make each section have an impact on the FMC. She learns something about herself or others or events that pertain to the story. She changes or grows as a character. She sees parallels with earlier events, that cause her to reevaluate her understanding of them and how she reacted at the time.

It’s meant to be an accelerated Bildungsroman. Which makes sense given who and what the FMC is.

And of course each section adds parts to the jigsaw puzzle that will be assembled fully at the end.

 

[NuclearFairy]

I like novelette / novella length. It gives you room to tell a story and flesh out the characters, without becoming a major commitment to write and read. And some of my favorite books are novellas.

I very much ask myself who on earth is going to read 90,000 of my words (I think that will be the eventual length)?

If it's written and posted, someone will read it.

Inevitably in a longer work you need connective passages, lows between the highs. I try to find something of interest to add to those bits. Humor, or a new element to a character, or setting up a later pay off. But I agree these sections can be harder to write.

I like to call those bridge chapters, and yeah they can be a pain to write sometimes. Other times they turn out surprisingly fun to write and you learn something new about your character.

 

[Gamblnluck]

I very much ask myself who on earth is going to read 90,000 of my words (I think that will be the eventual length)?

90,00 words is not novel length. Novels tend to be double that size. And while hard to read at a single sitting, there are many stories here approaching that.
Take a look at Bumblingfool's work. He publishes stories that length in Loving Wivesand while he has a few detractors, he does well. Almost all his scores are above 4.
I've seen his name on many favorites lists.

 

[Gamblnluck]

The story is episodic, but I try to make each section have an impact on the FMC. She learns something about herself or others or events that pertain to the story. She changes or grows as a character.

That is another thing that is natural. Characters develop. Stay true to their basic personality and let them learn and change.

 

[Gamblnluck]

I very much ask myself who on earth is going to read 90,000 of my words (I think that will be the eventual length)?

One other thing on length. If you publish this long story in Lit, consider breaking it into bite-sized chapters. We don't have bookmarks here and reading that much or finding your place after a break is not easy.
I tend to go close to 10k chapters myself.

 

[crookedletter]

90,00 words is not novel length. Novels tend to be double that size. And while hard to read at a single sitting, there are many stories here approaching that.
Take a look at Bumblingfool's work. He publishes stories that length in Loving Wivesand while he has a few detractors, he does well. Almost all his scores are above 4.
I've seen his name on many favorites lists.

As far as the printed page goes, I think it's generally about 250 words a page. 90,000 words is about 360 pages. Absolutely novel length.

 

[alohadave]

90,00 words is not novel length. Novels tend to be double that size. And while hard to read at a single sitting, there are many stories here approaching that.
Take a look at Bumblingfool's work. He publishes stories that length in Loving Wivesand while he has a few detractors, he does well. Almost all his scores are above 4.
I've seen his name on many favorites lists.

100,000 words is the minimum word count for trad publishing to be considered a novel.

Fantasy tends to run longer, but a shorter novel is still a novel.

 

[EmilyMiller]

As far as the printed page goes, I think it's generally about 250 words a page. 90,000 words is about 360 pages. Absolutely novel length.

Hi Dunning, meet Kruger.

Not aimed at you for the avoidance of doubt.

• The Scarlet Letter by Nathaniel Hawthorne 86 897
• The Secret Garden by Frances Hodgson Burnett 83 705
• The Picture of Dorian Gray by Oscar Wilde 82 222
• Frankenstein; Or, The Modern Prometheus by Mary Wollstonecraft Shelley 78 100
• Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone by J. K. Rowling 77 423
• Meditations by Emperor of Rome Marcus Aurelius 75 055
• The Adventures of Tom Sawyer by Mark Twain 74 772
• The Catcher in the Rye, a novel by J. D. Salinger 74 144
• Josefine Mutzenbacher by Felix Salten 73 567
• Baron Trump’s Marvellous Underground Journey by Ingersoll Lockwood 72 424
• Treasure Island by Robert Louis Stevenson 72 036

 

[EmilyMiller]

Re the 90,000 words, my current plan is to publish each of the six parts separately, maybe a day between each of them. Each part is +/- 15,000 words.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Re the 90,000 words, my current plan is to publish each of the six parts separately, maybe a day between each of them. Each part is +/- 15,000 words.

Actually - I mentioned I’m a control freak, right? - current counts:

1. 15,165
2. 16,061
3. 13,992
4. 15,909
5. 11,562
6. 7,492

Parts V and VI haven’t reached completed first draft status yet. The current total is 80,181. Part V might expand - I’m not sure yet. If it does, I’ll consider splitting it and having seven parts.

 

[NuclearFairy]

Actually - I mentioned I’m a control freak, right? - current counts:

1. 15,165
2. 16,061
3. 13,992
4. 15,909
5. 11,562
6. 7,492

Parts V and VI haven’t reached completed first draft status yet. The current total is 80,181. Part V might expand - I’m not sure yet. If it does, I’ll consider splitting it and having seven parts.

And here I was thinking of splitting my Orc story by sex acts, with each section ending with a chapter that has a sex in it. Which so far would be:

1. 12529
2. 4224
3. 6562

Haven't gotten to the next one yet, but I'm already up to 5k words after the last sex scene and am not sure when the next'll be.

 

[EmilyMiller]

And here I was thinking of splitting my Orc story by sex acts, with each section ending with a chapter that has a sex in it. Which so far would be:

1. 12529
2. 4224
3. 6562

Haven't gotten to the next one yet, but I'm already up to 5k words after the last sex scene and am not sure when the next'll be.

Advice on splitting up longer works falls into two camps. I don’t think there is a definitive answer. My story changes parts when the action moves to a new location (or a journey to a new location).

The tone of different parts is intentionally slightly different. Not jarringly so, but as dictated by the environment and its inhabitants. As well as the FMCs mental state and what happened in the previous part.

I’ve had a few people read Part I, one person has read Parts I - IV (first draft completed), and the long-suffering @Djmac1031 has read it all, more than once.

Feedback so far has been encouraging.

 

[Djmac1031]

Feedback so far has been encouraging.

That's because it's pretty fucking good

 

[EmilyMiller]

That's because it's pretty fucking good

Thanks - don’t think I’d have got this far without someone along for the ride!

 

[NuclearFairy]

Thanks - don’t think I’d have got this far without someone along for the ride!

I hear you there, without my SO reading all of my stuff I wouldn't have gotten very far.

I also wouldn't've posted anything if he hadn't told me I should do so. o.o

 

[Gamblnluck]

100,000 words is the minimum word count for trad publishing to be considered a novel.

Fantasy tends to run longer, but a shorter novel is still a novel.

I didn't realize novels were that short as far as word count.
I just did a word count (using Lit's rounded count rather than going back to my drafts for the actual number) My first story in my judicial slave universe is Slave Camp, 36 chapters totaling 318.3Kwords.
I wrote an offshoot story called My Mother Owns me, 9 chapters totaling 116.2 words.

The sequel to slave camp, Gotta Pay the Piper, integrates some of the characters of the other 2 stories and at present is 63 chapters long totaling 751k words.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I hear you there, without my SO reading all of my stuff I wouldn't have gotten very far.

I also wouldn't've posted anything if he hadn't told me I should do so. o.o

Writing can be lonely. If you are able to share it with someone it helps. My SO likes to read my stories, but he’s got much more of a literature background than me, and when we tried to work together, my voice got kinda drowned out. I want to sound like me, not him. Anyway, it’s good to have a balance between shared and separate hobbies in a relationship.

 

[NuclearFairy]

Writing can be lonely. If you are able to share it with someone it helps. My SO likes to read my stories, but he’s got much more of a literature background than me, and when we tried to work together, my voice got kinda drowned out. I want to sound like me, not him. Anyway, it’s good to have a balance between shared and separate hobbies in a relationship.

I suspect that might be why my SO is mostly a bit of a yes man when it comes to my stuff. He majored in English lit in college. He's a great help with the editing process though! And he's really encouraging for most of my stuff.

Yeah, we have our separate hobbies too.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

90,00 words is not novel length. Novels tend to be double that size.

That's not true. 90k is almost average. 100-120k is about average. 60k and up is usually considered novel, or 50k at bare minimum.

 

[Gamblnluck]

As far as the printed page goes, I think it's generally about 250 words a page. 90,000 words is about 360 pages. Absolutely novel length.

I stand corrected.

 

[TheWritingGroup]

90,00 words is not novel length. Novels tend to be double that size. And while hard to read at a single sitting, there are many stories here approaching that.

As a fan of fantasy and science fiction, I'll mention that the Hugo Awards call anything longer than 40,000 words a novel.
https://www.thehugoawards.org/hugo-categories/

--Annie "Might have voted for the Hugos more than once"

 

[PapaRomantic]

My longest work so far is 71K, which I split into five parts to publish it here.

Most difficult for me was continuity from beginning to end. I'm constantly going back to find names of characters and places I'd used earlier so when they appeared again, i didn't change them. (I understand I should plan better and do a better job of keeping track of things like that as I write)

I also think maintaining each character's 'authentic voice' over a longer work can be difficult. It's one of the good outcomes of editing for grammar as you go. It gives me a chance to compare the voices I'd already written as I continue the story.

Someone said that writing long works can become tedious. I completely second that, but it also gives a great sense of accomplishment when you finish.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Most difficult for me was continuity from beginning to end. I'm constantly going back to find names of characters and places I'd used earlier so when they appeared again, i didn't change them.

I hope I have that nailed.

I’m more worried about feedback that says, “Why did X do Y, wouldn’t Z have been much easier and quicker?”