closed Thread

[butters]

That entire right wing Israeli cabal needs to go once this is over and Hamas has been eliminated as a controlling entity in Gaza & the West Bank.



Now to the newly initiated Israeli aid efforts:

I saw a video from inside Gaza, where civilians were retrieving food aid, etc, from the air drops Israel has been conducting, and there were bursts of gunfire going off - with no Israeli troops anywhere near the site…and civilians are still reporting that they have to buy the food aid, etc, that is being donated and delivered to Gaza…



Weird…



We. Told. Them. So.

in a power-vacuum, gangs and the criminally-minded will always rush in to fill it... in this case, the black marketeers, often people only looking to keep their own families alive even if it's at the expense of others'.

Israel’s relentless attacks have shattered security in Gaza, making it nearly impossible to safely deliver food to starving Palestinians.

Much of the limited aid entering the enclave is being hoarded by gangs and merchants and sold at exorbitant prices.

A kilogram of flour cost as much as $60 in recent days, while a kilogram of lentils can go up to $35. This is way beyond the means of most Gaza residents.

The Hamas-run police vanished from areas under Israeli control when Israel broke the ceasefire in March.

Instead, local tribes and gangs — some of which Israel says Hamas supports — took over, residents say.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...p&cvid=7cd63f8635f549e7a5074418e61f8deb&ei=20


What needs to happen is for far more, regular aid distribution points to be opened, protected, with order maintained. Right now, to access any aid, the starving Gazan population is desperate, running the risk of being bombed/shot at by Israelis and gangs alike. A desperate, starving population isn't going to easily listen to orders to queue peacefully, especially if they never know if they'll ever receive any food and water again or how long it'll be till the next time... a gap during which their family—wives, sons, husbands, daughters, babies, mothers and fathers—may succumb to malnutrition & sickness. I don't quite see how anything other than a ceasefire and intervention by multiple nations at the highest level will achieve the establishment of 'safe' food distribution, especially given Israel's reluctance to facilitate any power other than their own on the ground in Gaza.

 

[Lazaran]

in a power-vacuum, gangs and the criminally-minded will always rush in to fill it... in this case, the black marketeers, often people only looking to keep their own families alive even if it's at the expense of others'.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...p&cvid=7cd63f8635f549e7a5074418e61f8deb&ei=20


What needs to happen is for far more, regular aid distribution points to be opened, protected, with order maintained. Right now, to access any aid, the starving Gazan population is desperate, running the risk of being bombed/shot at by Israelis and gangs alike. A desperate, starving population isn't going to easily listen to orders to queue peacefully, especially if they never know if they'll ever receive any food and water again or how long it'll be till the next time... a gap during which their family—wives, sons, husbands, daughters, babies, mothers and fathers—may succumb to malnutrition & sickness. I don't quite see how anything other than a ceasefire and intervention by multiple nations at the highest level will achieve the establishment of 'safe' food distribution, especially given Israel's reluctance to facilitate any power other than their own on the ground in Gaza.

A similar thing happened in Iraq after the fall of Saddam: ISIS (a "gang") formed out of the remnants of Saddam’s forces, and it took some serious death and destruction to resolve the crisis.

Power vacuums are suboptimal to say the least (someone should explain that to DonOld).

That ^ said: What is the alternative??? Leave monsters like Saddam & Hamas (or their acolytes) in power???



Ultimately:

I wouldn’t say unaffiliated armed "gangs" are the problem in Gaza, as there is a strong probability that those armed individuals are Hamas operatives "out of uniform".

Hamas still remains the ruling authority-in-hiding in Gaza (and the West Bank???). Hamas operatives have likely shed their identifying clothing & insignia, but they are still THE "gang" controlling Gaza, imho.

Side note:

It doesn’t help that Hamas CANNOT agree to a ceasefire that includes releasing the living hostages and returning the dead hostages - nor one that also leaves Israel in charge of aid deliveries & the borders - because then Hamas’ leverage for remaining in power would be gone (Hamas could no longer "negotiate", finance their operations through the sale of foreign aid food shipments to the civilian population, nor smuggle the weapons they need to maintain control / project power).

People think Netanyahu (etc) needs this war / crisis to continue for him to stay in power & out of prison, but I would submit that Hamas needs this crisis to continue (or be resolved on terms that TOTALLY favor their continuing control of Gaza) more than Netanyahu (etc).

It is what it is.



We. Told. Them. So.

 

[ll74]

Are Jews bad?
Are Palestinians bad?

Discuss.

 

[butters]

Are Jews bad?
Are Palestinians bad?

Discuss.

no
no

/discussion

 

[eric_erosfan]

Are Jews bad?
Are Palestinians bad?

Discuss.

Yes.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Are Jews bad?
Are Palestinians bad?

Discuss.

Until 1948 "Palestinian" meant "Jew".

The Arabs who lived in Mandatory Palestine 100 years ago didn't call themselves "Palestinians". They only started doing that when Israel won the Six-Day War in 1967

 

[ll74]

Until 1948 "Palestinian" meant "Jew".

The Arabs who lived in Mandatory Palestine 100 years ago didn't call themselves "Palestinians". They only started doing that when Israel won the Six-Day War in 1967

Lol

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Lol

Would you care to explain?

 

[ll74]

Would you care to explain?

I laughed out loud

 

[StrentWriter]

Until 1948 "Palestinian" meant "Jew".

The Arabs who lived in Mandatory Palestine 100 years ago didn't call themselves "Palestinians". They only started doing that when Israel won the Six-Day War in 1967

So you’re basically just a big liar, huh?

Fuck off with your hasbara shit.

 

[butters]

As an Israeli political scientist, I resisted thinking this war was a genocide. Here’s what changed my mind

an interesting article, from this one liberal Jewish Israeli political scientist:

The destruction of Gaza, including the killing of thousands of children and the restriction on humanitarian aid is undeniable. The incitement for genocide and ethnic cleansing in the Israeli public sphere — from the government, in the pro-government media, and in everyday speech is also undeniable. Then why are so many of us liberal Jews still reluctant?

I’ve thought about my colleague’s words every day since we spoke, and I think there are several reasons for many liberal Jews’ tremendous difficulty in seriously confronting the question of whether Israel is committing genocide, including a misunderstanding of what genocide can look like. None of these, however, if we are truly honest with ourselves, justify turning away from it.

As I read about Myanmar, where the USHMM determined in December 2018 that genocide had been committed against the Rohingya Muslim minority, I was struck by how similar the incitement against the Rohingya sounded to what I constantly heard in Israel. The Burmese officials called all Rohingya “terrorists” and a threat to the nation. Israeli ministers say that there are no innocent civilians in Gaza. They say Gaza should be flattened and burned and they outline exactly how they are preventing humanitarian aid from entering. In March 2025, the government’s security cabinet formally approved setting up an agency to direct the expulsion of Gaza’s residents.

The more I learn about genocide, the more shocked and embarrassed I am by my own ignorance. Once I actively tried to be better informed about genocide, the picture in Gaza became terrifyingly clear.

 

[butters]

Palestinian clans backed by Israel acting as shooters, looters, bandits

JERUSALEM — Yasser Abu Shabab is all over Israeli news and Palestinian social media.

He describes himself as a humanitarian and a liberator. International aid workers allege he was behind the systematic looting of aid entering the Gaza Strip last fall.

Some Gazans — including analysts, residents and members of his own tribe — say he is a gang leader aligned with the Israeli military. “Yasser Abu Shabab doesn’t represent us. He only represents himself,” said Adel al-Tarabin, a leader in the Bedouin Tarabin tribe to which Abu Shabab belongs. He went on to describe him as a looter and a bandit.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said at the beginning of June that Israel was arming members of clans — large, influential extended families — in Gaza as counterweights to Hamas. “Based on advice from security officials, we supported clans in Gaza that oppose Hamas,” Netanyahu said in a video posted to his X account.

Abu Shabab claims he's not backed by or supplied with weapons by Israel, and it's all hamas propaganda to make people fear his power. However:

the base that the militia leader said he has set up is in a part of southeastern Gaza under the control of the Israel Defense Forces. And in recent months, Israeli forces have refrained from interfering when Abu Shabab and his men, armed with AK-47s, patrolled a central artery in the area and stopped U.N. and Red Cross vehicles at makeshift checkpoints, according to several aid workers in Gaza.

His is not the only clan being given special treatment; while it might seem a good idea to raise power amongst Palestinians in a way unaffiliated with hamas, Israel's protecting/supplying them and permitting them to loot/raid/shoot/steal aid at the expense of the civilian Palestinian population is not. It also calls foul on some of the stories spread about it being all hamas that's doing what this guy (and other, Israeli-supported clans) is doing. Having "local" Palestinians behaving as bandits lends a cover story to the IDF to shoot and bomb starving civilians just trying to survive.

 

[Lazaran]

Palestinian clans backed by Israel acting as shooters, looters, bandits







Abu Shabab claims he's not backed by or supplied with weapons by Israel, and it's all hamas propaganda to make people fear his power. However:


His is not the only clan being given special treatment; while it might seem a good idea to raise power amongst Palestinians in a way unaffiliated with hamas, Israel's protecting/supplying them and permitting them to loot/raid/shoot/steal aid at the expense of the civilian Palestinian population is not. It also calls foul on some of the stories spread about it being all hamas that's doing what this guy (and other, Israeli-supported clans) is doing. Having "local" Palestinians behaving as bandits lends a cover story to the IDF to shoot and bomb starving civilians just trying to survive.

Sounds like an “enemy of my enemy” situation.

Certainly not optimal, but at this point the Israelis are obviously in “anyone but Hamas” mode (and I would submit the Israelis have good reason to take that tack).

I take it Abu Shabbab and his clan are not holding hostages, and they didn’t participate in the Hamas 10/7 rape, torture, murder, and kidnapping operation???

IF that ^ is the case, then Israel SHOULD be making cautious overtures to Abu Shabbab & his clan (gang?):

If an alternative to Hamas could establish themselves as the de facto power in Gaza, then Israel will no longer have reason to continue the war based on the “Hamas is still in power” sticking point.

And all that ^ would leave is the hostage situation.

This all may be a sign that things are approaching an inflection point in the crisis.

We shall see.



We. Told. Them. So.

 

[SkyBubble]

Hamas is a terrorist organization that is delibrately starving its own people.

 

[1984X2024]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1952388611078275345

 

[1984X2024]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1952388611078275345

starving

 

[schism666]

 

[DeluxAuto]

This is fucking insane.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

"No military is more publicly condemned today than the Israel Defense Forces."

Interesting analysis of the tension between politics and tactics on the modern battlefield.