The Official Star Wars Thread!

[StillStunned]

The Rise of Author's Hangout.

Only an editor deals in absolutes!

The Rise of the Author's Authors' Hangout

 

[onehitwanda]

Ahem.

Jar-Jar Binks was a Sith Lord

 

[AwkwardlySet]

That thread was dead and 3x derailed before I derailed it a 4th time with my KOTOR diatribe, lol. I don't think that counts as derailing if it's already a half mile from the rails.

Here's the diatribe if anyone wants to argue with me about it.

I'm pretty disillusioned with taking Star Wars at face value at this point. The Rise of Skywalker was such a knife through the heart of the franchise.

For this reason, my favorite bits of SW media are KOTOR 2 and The Last Jedi. The imperfect works most people hate that are primarily concerned with deconstructing the bad ideas wrapped up in the Jedi in particular and the force in general. I hear Andor is dope but I think I need a few more years to detox from Rise of Skywalker before I'm ready to engage with that one like it deserves.

I finally came back to reread your post.

Both the original trilogy and KOTOR represent a hero's journey; there's no doubt about it. And both were great successes. The same as with Literotica stories, it's obvious that the readership absolutely loves their tropes.
Using tropes isn't an issue, really; any typical trope can still be made into a great story, one that stands the test of time. Lucas managed to do that even though the original trilogy was filled with tropes. How? With colorful characters, fantastic villains, plenty of imagination, excellent wordbuilding, good vs evil, romance, you name it.

KOTOR has the same, pretty much, and as someone already mentioned, the twist with Revan adds another layer to the story. There will always be new ways to tell the same old tropes.

If I understood you correctly, you believe that the deconstruction of the hero's journey trope in KOTOR2 led to a worse reception of the game? I am not sure I agree there. KOTOR2 is great in some ways, but its weakest point is the MC.
KOTOR and KOTOR2 are RPGs, and I believe that players greatly value putting themselves into the MC's place, literally being the MC.
That's what was the greatest detriment to its success, in my opinion, even though KOTOR2 was still quite successful. In KOTOR, your MC was Revan, a former Sith Lord, both a hero and a villain, but either way, a character with charisma, name, and history.

In KOTOR2, you had a nameless MC, a Jedi exile, and all we knew was that they were a lieutenant in Revan's army and that they walked away from all the horror of it and became a hole in the Force. The personality of the MC was lacking, and that was its greatest detriment. They were in the shadow of Revan. It's only much later, in a novel about Revan, that we learn the MC's name is Meetra Surik and a bit more about her, but she still stays in Revan's shadow.
Revan was just too good a character, and players wanted more of his story.

 

[SimonDoom]

Ahem.

Jar-Jar Binks was a Sith Lord

The idea that Jar Jar Binks was a Sith Lord and the true evil mastermind makes me appreciate the prequel trilogy SO much more. Of course, it's a low bar.

 

[Nynah]

Revan was just too good a character, and players wanted more of his story.

Bioware had quite a success when allowed to follow a single main character over the course of different story arcs (Mass Effect). Their efforts when plying the same series with different protagonists is a more mixed bag (Dragon Age). Of course, KotOR II was made by Obsidian (at the recommendation of Bioware) so I can't help but wonder what direction the game would have taken if the original studio had been at the helm. Granted, the choice at the end of KotOR was much more binary than the first Mass Effect game, but it's still a fascinating thing to ponder (at least for avowed fangirls like me).

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Bioware had quite a success when allowed to follow a single main character over the course of different story arcs (Mass Effect). Their efforts when plying the same series with different protagonists is a more mixed bag (Dragon Age). Of course, KotOR II was made by Obsidian (at the recommendation of Bioware) so I can't help but wonder what direction the game would have taken if the original studio had been at the helm. Granted, the choice at the end of KotOR was much more binary than the first Mass Effect game, but it's still a fascinating thing to ponder (at least for avowed fangirls like me).

Exactly!
Players/readers form an attachment to the MC, and Revan was a great one. I like that you mentioned Mass Effect. People simply loved Shepard, both the male and female versions, and I still remember the uproar over the ending of Mass Effect 3, all because of the way Shepard's story ended.

 

[designatedvictim]

The idea that Jar Jar Binks was a Sith Lord and the true evil mastermind makes me appreciate the prequel trilogy SO much more. Of course, it's a low bar.

I feel you missed an opportunity to call it a low bar-bar.

 

[AngieGZC]

Bioware had quite a success when allowed to follow a single main character over the course of different story arcs (Mass Effect). Their efforts when plying the same series with different protagonists is a more mixed bag (Dragon Age). Of course, KotOR II was made by Obsidian (at the recommendation of Bioware) so I can't help but wonder what direction the game would have taken if the original studio had been at the helm. Granted, the choice at the end of KotOR was much more binary than the first Mass Effect game, but it's still a fascinating thing to ponder (at least for avowed fangirls like me).

Dragon Age was amazing until the last one.... Same thing with ME it was good and then Andromeda came ..

 

[Nynah]

Dragon Age was amazing until the last one.... Same thing with ME it was good and then Andromeda came ..

Yeah when talking about Mass Effect I generally don't include Andromeda. As a game I think it was fine and certainly very pretty but I think it would have been better received if not tied to the Mass Effect brand, because narratively it falls way short of the standards set by the original trilogy of ME games. Honestly, it would have been better if it was set in the Star Wars universe since that particular IP is much older and has spread the expectation load over several movies and other pieces of media.

I haven't played Veilguard but I have watched a few friends play it and I don't think it's for me, sadly. Again, a perfectly serviceable sword and sorcery game but given the lore and history of the IP it is tied to... doesn't quite pass muster for me.

 

[PennyThompson]

Yeah when talking about Mass Effect I generally don't include Andromeda. As a game I think it was fine and certainly very pretty but I think it would have been better received if not tied to the Mass Effect brand, because narratively it falls way short of the standards set by the original trilogy of ME games. Honestly, it would have been better if it was set in the Star Wars universe since that particular IP is much older and has spread the expectation load over several movies and other pieces of media.

I haven't played Veilguard but I have watched a few friends play it and I don't think it's for me, sadly. Again, a perfectly serviceable sword and sorcery game but given the lore and history of the IP it is tied to... doesn't quite pass muster for me.

NYNAH WHAT WAS YOUR ME3 ENDING CHOICE???

(This is the only personality test I believe in)

 

[AwkwardlySet]

NYNAH WHAT WAS YOUR ME3 ENDING CHOICE???

(This is the only personality test I believe in)

The first time I played, I wanted to see how the joining ending plays out, but ultimately, Destruction was my choice. With high galaxy readiness, it basically destroys the reapers and mass relays, and everything else survives... and Shepard takes a breath.

 

[Nynah]

NYNAH WHAT WAS YOUR ME3 ENDING CHOICE???

I have transcended the need for endings to Mass Effect 3. I simply have two save files I play from time to time. One is right before Shepard says goodbye to Liara, the other is right before the end with Admiral Anderson when he tells you he's proud of you. You know never know when you'll need a good bawl-your-eyes out cry.

(no but really if i had to choose it'd probably be Destroy but all of them are stinky to varying degrees and i reject them most days)

 

[PennyThompson]

I find both of these answers fascinating

My only full playthrough was FemShep -> Tali Romance -> Quarian/Geth Peace, at which point Synthesis (green) felt like the thematically correct ending

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I was sure you were gonna say you picked the joining thing, and I had the Oh My God, you killed Kenny! (Shepard) meme ready.
Damn it!

Edit: Ooohhh, wait!

 

[Nynah]

My only full playthrough was FemShep -> Tali Romance -> Quarian/Geth Peace, at which point Synthesis (green) felt like the thematically correct ending

Incredibly annoyed at Bioware for not making Tali romanceable for FemShep and having the fans resort to mods, but yes, Tali's romance is adorable. The thing I don't care for about the Green ending is the lack of agency for literally every living thing in the galaxy having their DNA rewired but it's space fantasy escapism so whatever.

 

[PennyThompson]

Incredibly annoyed at Bioware for not making Tali romanceable for FemShep and having the fans resort to mods, but yes, Tali's romance is adorable.

WAIT really? I could have sworn I had a full Tali romance option when I played it, but I didn't use any mods so I must not have... I guess I just wanted it really really badly, and that turned into a memory of it having happened...

Edit: Digging through the wiki, now I'm pretty sure I romanced Garrus, who honestly is a perfectly good snarky lizardboy husband. I definitely WANTED to romance Tali, though

 

[Nynah]

Edit: Digging through the wiki, now I'm pretty sure I romanced Garrus, who honestly is a perfectly good snarky lizardboy husband.

He's not a monster per se, but that would be on brand for you.

Garrus is my usual canon romance for FemShep because I'm weak for a snarky anti-hero. And he says lines like this one that just turn me into goo.

 

[Rob_Royale]

Has anyone read the Heir to the Empire series by Timothy Zahn? I thought Lucasfilm dropped the ball for not considering that saga when writing ep7-9. Some of the best Star Wars fiction I've read.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Has anyone read the Heir to the Empire series by Timothy Zahn? I thought Lucasfilm dropped the ball for not considering that saga when writing ep7-9. Some of the best Star Wars fiction I've read.

I don't know, moving on from Skywalkers' story felt right after six episodes. But yeah, now we know that even Lucas' idea of focusing on midichlorins in episodes 7-9 would have been better than the crap we were served. Hell, even Ewoks would have been an upgrade.

 

[AngieGZC]

Yeah when talking about Mass Effect I generally don't include Andromeda. As a game I think it was fine and certainly very pretty but I think it would have been better received if not tied to the Mass Effect brand, because narratively it falls way short of the standards set by the original trilogy of ME games. Honestly, it would have been better if it was set in the Star Wars universe since that particular IP is much older and has spread the expectation load over several movies and other pieces of media.

I haven't played Veilguard but I have watched a few friends play it and I don't think it's for me, sadly. Again, a perfectly serviceable sword and sorcery game but given the lore and history of the IP it is tied to... doesn't quite pass muster for me.

I agree Andromeda didn't feel tied into or even like a Mass Effect game at all. Don't even get me started about Veilguard. I had such high hopes...the crash was horrible.

Since you brought up Star Wars though... I am and always will be they were never given the green light by EA to make KotOR 3 and finish the trilogy. They had the IP and the Company asking....talk about neglect.

 

[AngieGZC]

He's not a monster per se, but that would be on brand for you.

Garrus is my usual canon romance for FemShep because I'm weak for a snarky anti-hero. And he says lines like this one that just turn me into goo.

Have you played Baldurs Gate III....

My romance is in that game is always Halsin

 

[ScorpioRising71]

I don't know, moving on from Skywalkers' story felt right after six episodes. But yeah, now we know that even Lucas' idea of focusing on midichlorins in episodes 7-9 would have been better than the crap we were served. Hell, even Ewoks would have been an upgrade.

Let’s not go that far, this is about the time that Lucas switched from making his vision of a space Opera to purely making money. Ewoks were the start of that path and therefore I hold them fully accountable. I am happy that in some appendices somewhere I remember reading that they were all wiped out. The prequels to me were so bad I still haven’t seen them fully to this day and the last 3 I watched clawing at my eyes in disbelief they managed to destroy the last 40years of movie magic they had created. I grant that Daisy Ridley had potential as a new protagonist, shame the writing and story didn’t support her efforts.

 

[AngieGZC]

WAIT really? I could have sworn I had a full Tali romance option when I played it, but I didn't use any mods so I must not have... I guess I just wanted it really really badly, and that turned into a memory of it having happened...

Edit: Digging through the wiki, now I'm pretty sure I romanced Garrus, who honestly is a perfectly good snarky lizardboy husband. I definitely WANTED to romance Tali, though

I wanted Tali also but also settled for Garus haha....

In Dragon Age Morrigan was always my go to romance

 

[Kumquatqueen]

For the Star Wars fans - there's a SW version of Carcassonne that's just the basic game with a black background, but some rather good changes to the rules to enable meeples to fight. Worth looking up for any gamers.

 

[Wonderer67]

Let’s not go that far, this is about the time that Lucas switched from making his vision of a space Opera to purely making money. Ewoks were the start of that path and therefore I hold them fully accountable. I am happy that in some appendices somewhere I remember reading that they were all wiped out. The prequels to me were so bad I still haven’t seen them fully to this day and the last 3 I watched clawing at my eyes in disbelief they managed to destroy the last 40years of movie magic they had created. I grant that Daisy Ridley had potential as a new protagonist, shame the writing and story didn’t support her efforts.

Old fuckin school. Empire strikes back was amazing. Can’t be topped, imo.

There were a few of the newer movies that weren’t too bad. I did like rogue one. And I liked the Daisy Ridley character. The movies were pretty predictable tho. Basically a repeat of the original three but not bad.

My daughter is deep into all of this Star Wars universe stuff. I can’t get into it at all.