A place to discuss the craft of writing: tricks, philosophies, styles

[FrancesScott]

"So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past."

One of the few lines of literature I've had memorized since we studied it in high school. It meant nothing to me at 15, and everything to me thirty years later.

It’s a stunning and evocative line about the human experience, one whose emotional weight is only increased by the subtle alliteration.

 

[FrancesScott]

Apropos of nothing, Gatsby is often criticized as being millionaire porn (back when being a millionaire was a big deal). I think it’s nothing of the sort. I think it’s about the obsessions that drive us on, provide meaning to our existences, and the sad fact that they can often be illusory, or even self-destructive.

 

[Dearelliot]

I've finished 4 stories here all with the same genre, femdom, and I should have wrapped around a few characters from one story into another...just for the fun of it, and would have made fun side stories...I'm going to try it with my 5th story...If I live long enough to finish the damn thing

 

[Venefica]

What I found ist very helpful :

Read your story again and again and again. You will always find spots where your reading is disturbed. Change the text and read agin until you are in a flow. Then it is good (probably).

 

[pink_silk_glove]

In my opinion, good writing doesn't call attention to itself.

I made that same claim in another thread about writing style. I said that I hated overdramatic prose that distracted from the actual narrative and everyone told me that I was wrong.

 

[StillStunned]

Plotting doesn't come naturally to me, so I spend quite a bit of my non-writing time thinking about how to improve it.

One thing that's worked for me (in The Walled Garden) is a series of three scenes, each with the intensity ramped up. The narrator is driving home from work, gets a call from her lodger about the sexy gardener, and then they watch him and gossip.

I'm doing the same with a WIP about a woman having therapy to remove her inhibitions: a series of three sessions, each building on the previous one.

With this kind of structure, you can make the story feel more complete by repeating the same ingredients at the start of each scene. In The Walled Garden, Christina is in her car. It's Friday, it's been a long week. She gets a call from Rosa just before she arrives home. Inside, she pours herself some wine and goes to the spare bedroom and starts to watch. In the therapy story, my protagonist Annie reflects on a conversation with her friend Lindsay, enters the lobby of an office block, interacts with the security guard, and is met by her doctor's assistant as she steps from the lift. She settles on the sofa, looks at the erotic statues, and the session begins.

Repetition, whether of words, sounds, sayings or actions, is a great way to embed the story in your reader's mind. In the two examples above, they remind the reader of what's gone before. It's a formula, it helps them to settle in and anticipate what's to come. It's basically the same as "once upon a time" or "there was a king who had three daughters, one as fair as dawn, one as golden as the midday sun and one as dark and mysterious as dusk."

It also makes your writing feel more sophisticated. In my WIP example, if Annie only thinks about Lindsay during the first scene, then the reader might wonder why she's mentioned at all. The same with the security guard. Sure, they help to describe the events, but they could just as easily be left out. The story could just as easily start with Annie stepping from the lift, or even as she takes her seat on the sofa. But by including those elements each time, they play a part and show Annie's development from one scene to the next. Lindsay's comments on Annie's issues, an outsider's perspective of our narrator and her feelings about being in this place to get this therapy, and so on.

So my advice: if you find yourself adding details near the start of your story to create the setting or starting situation, try to work them into your story later on at regular intervals. They become markers to show the progress that your character has made, and they make your story feel more cohesive.

 

[filthytrancendence]

Repetition, whether of words, sounds, sayings or actions

Great advice. All of it, but especially this bit.

Something I'm trying in my WIP is kinda a higher-order version of this specifically about people's names. I have one side character that is partly characterized as an asshole by the fact that he refuses to use one of the MC's preferred diminutive name (Cass), always using her full name (Cassandra) in their professional context. And I have a different side character that does a similar thing, but in a mother-hen self-aware winking and domestic kind of way. Both are departures from cultural convention, but the motivation is different, and I think that does a lot of work to characterize them without ever having to explicitly do so.

Especially for side characters, I think it's a really good best practice to pick some kind of linguistic flourish unique to them that they have occasion to repeat.

 

[Bassytian]

I've always had a vivid, perhaps overactive, imagination. Then, I finally started putting words on paper, or on a screen, rather. I'm not sure I have any advice that hasn't already been shared, but any writing tips are worth repeating in my opinion.

I've been learning as I go, and I've come far! I haven't had the good fortune of finding an editor, so I've been learning how to do it myself instead. I think this is an important skill even if you have an editor and a proofreader.

I've really come into my own and am still evolving, which is awesome! This is another important tip: enjoy the art of writing! You're sharing your creativity with the world. If you love writing it, someone out there will enjoy reading it!

It's been said before, but reading is a must if you want to be a good writer. If you want to write erotica, read it! This applies to whatever genre you want to write. My main series is a mixed bag. It has sex, fighting, emotional scenes, and romance is about to come into the picture as well.

I write a lot of fight scenes, and for those, I research fight choreography. I pay attention to how the human body moves and write with that in mind to make the battles fluid and believable. I also watch porn for the choreography, I swear!!

It's not without its challenges; I suffer from writer's block on occasion, just like any writer. But if I switch to something else, all I can think about is how I could be writing instead! I have to force myself to give my mind a rest until the creative juices flow again.

Details... that's one I'm still working on. I tend to overshare when I'm in the mood to talk (I'm an introvert, most of the time), and this translates into my writing at times, and I share too much. Sometimes, I worry about providing too many details and end up giving too little. I've gotten better, but I can still improve. It's all about finding a balance.

I'm proud of my characters, that's one thing that's never been a problem for me. To make good characters, you have to get into their heads and find out what makes them tick. What motivates them? What turns them on/off? What is their outlook on life? These are just a few of many questions you have to consider. Not saying you have to think of hundreds of questions, but you will need to know which ones matter to the story you want to write.

Anyway, that's my two cents. I'll post this reply and think of a dozen things later, that's how my mind works.

 

[StillStunned]

but any writing tips are worth repeating in my opinion.

At the very least, repetition might help them stick in people's minds.

 

[DeMont]

A place to discuss the craft of writing: that's what the AH is, according to its description. To socialise too, but I think we get enough of that.

So let's discuss the craft. Don't be shy of you're self-taught, or if you're just mucking around, or if you've got terrible imposter syndrome. If you've written anything, and particularly if you've published it for people to read, you're a writer. And for at least a short space of time your words and imagination have lived in other people's minds. You've occupied their head, they've occupied your world. You're a writer, you've lived the craft.

I'd like this to be a thread where we can share our tips and tricks, our philosophies, our styles, our likes and dislikes, our frustrations and our triumphs. What worked and what didn't, and what we learned from both. Whatever moments you've had as a writer that you've thought "This is part of what makes my stories." Whatever helps you to get the words out of your head, onto the page and into the reader's head.

Like I mentioned above: don't be shy. I once had a professor who said, "The only stupid question is the one you don't ask." Likewise, I say, "The only useless thought is the one you don't share." So let's also make this a positive thread and not crap on anyone else's offerings. We're all at different stages in our development, we all have different approaches, we all have different ideas about what we want to achieve, and we all have different priorities. What seems trivial to you is quite possibly quintessential to someone else's experience.

Being new here I decided, very early on, to catch up on a lot of reading of previous posts in various forums. Get a sense of the place and figure out how you fit in (more-or-less) with your new environment. I've also searched a fair bit for specific topics and found that while many touch, partially on your particular question, they don't always encompass the entirety of it. Having said that I'm going to ask a question that may well have been broached someplace I missed or couldn't find.

What is the best way to approach writing about a sex act between sexes/sexualities other than you own?

How can men write a lesbian love/sex scene when they have no actual experience to draw on? Similarly, how can the fem-fem exclusive write about the male/female sex act when they've never experienced it? I do believe that bi-inclined authors would have an easier time of it what about the black and white world of the "straight arrows"?

Let me make an example of myself - I am, and always have been, straight and male I have had experiences of threesome's with two women, also with a friend (male) and his wife (no male sex involved - it was her birthday, what was I going to say, No?)
I have never had a "lesbian encounter" because I'm a straight male. How am I going to write about a lesbian encounter and make it sound believable not a parody of some sleazy 70's B-Grade porn flick?

I read lesbian stories here and my mere male mind can't seem to fathom the depths, and nuances, of the situation because I am, so to speak, physically handicapped in that sense.
Is it even a common sense idea for a "straight" male to want to include same-sex sex in one of his stories given his wholly opposite sex experiences?

I do apologise if this is somewhere else and I missed it but this Literotica Mansion is one huuuuuuge place...!!! LOL

As always any advice and/or suggestions will be gratefully received by this stumbling, demented wordsmith.
Deepest respects,
D.

 

[FrancesScott]

Being new here I decided, very early on, to catch up on a lot of reading of previous posts in various forums. Get a sense of the place and figure out how you fit in (more-or-less) with your new environment. I've also searched a fair bit for specific topics and found that while many touch, partially on your particular question, they don't always encompass the entirety of it. Having said that I'm going to ask a question that may well have been broached someplace I missed or couldn't find.

What is the best way to approach writing about a sex act between sexes/sexualities other than you own?

How can men write a lesbian love/sex scene when they have no actual experience to draw on? Similarly, how can the fem-fem exclusive write about the male/female sex act when they've never experienced it? I do believe that bi-inclined authors would have an easier time of it what about the black and white world of the "straight arrows"?

Let me make an example of myself - I am, and always have been, straight and male I have had experiences of threesome's with two women, also with a friend (male) and his wife (no male sex involved - it was her birthday, what was I going to say, No?)
I have never had a "lesbian encounter" because I'm a straight male. How am I going to write about a lesbian encounter and make it sound believable not a parody of some sleazy 70's B-Grade porn flick?

I read lesbian stories here and my mere male mind can't seem to fathom the depths, and nuances, of the situation because I am, so to speak, physically handicapped in that sense.
Is it even a common sense idea for a "straight" male to want to include same-sex sex in one of his stories given his wholly opposite sex experiences?

I do apologise if this is somewhere else and I missed it but this Literotica Mansion is one huuuuuuge place...!!! LOL

As always any advice and/or suggestions will be gratefully received by this stumbling, demented wordsmith.
Deepest respects,
D.

Maybe it is easier if you have experienced sex with more than one gender. But I really think it’s about observation.

If you are a straight guy, and want to write lesbian. Think about women you have gone down on. How did they react, what did they like. Then put yourself in her mind and think what she is experiencing.

If you are a straight woman, think about the expressions a man has made while having sex with you, the noises, the things you have done to make him tingle. Put yourself in his shoes.

As I say, if you are bi, you probably have a bit of an advantage in imagining things. But our nerve bundles are not so very different and our experience of pleasure is at least in the same ballpark.

I’ve had very few adverse comments to writing male narrators. I think just try to write what you think things are like. My experience is you might get closer to it than you think.

Failing that, if you are a woman writing a male narrator, find a guy to review the text for you and to point out anything jarring. Or vice versa.

 

[filthytrancendence]

I have never had a "lesbian encounter" because I'm a straight male. How am I going to write about a lesbian encounter and make it sound believable not a parody of some sleazy 70's B-Grade porn flick?

I think you'll find that adopting a tone on purpose, even if it's silly, schlocky, or ridiculous, will generate a better response than any kind of uncertainty.

In other words, sounding like a parody of a sleazy 70's B-Grade porn flick on purpose is a valid (and probably pretty fun) approach. Maybe that isn't what you want to do, but I'm just trying to say that 'believable' is less important than purposeful in the eyes of a reader. People will follow you pretty damn far as long as you're willing to lead.

As for how to write something that far out of your own experience in a more grounded way, one thing you can do is read a bunch of whatever perspective you want to attempt. If that's a lesbian encounter, I hear nothing but fabulous things about @THBGato and @onehitwanda's work. I know there's many more, here in the AH and beyond. But don't just read the stories, try and internalize the perspective. Notice the differences.

And at some point, you've just got to try. And maybe (probably) the first attempt isn't going to be great. But you'll learn a lot. And you'll learn even more if you seek out feedback about it.

People say write what you know all the time, and that's good advice. But I think people can expand what they know, or at least understand, quite a lot further than they tend to give themselves credit for. It's hard work, but it's far from impossible, if it's something you want to achieve.

 

[THBGato]

What is the best way to approach writing about a sex act between sexes/sexualities other than you own?

How can men write a lesbian love/sex scene when they have no actual experience to draw on? Similarly, how can the fem-fem exclusive write about the male/female sex act when they've never experienced it? I do believe that bi-inclined authors would have an easier time of it what about the black and white world of the "straight arrows"?

Let me make an example of myself - I am, and always have been, straight and male I have had experiences of threesome's with two women, also with a friend (male) and his wife (no male sex involved - it was her birthday, what was I going to say, No?)
I have never had a "lesbian encounter" because I'm a straight male. How am I going to write about a lesbian encounter and make it sound believable not a parody of some sleazy 70's B-Grade porn flick?

I read lesbian stories here and my mere male mind can't seem to fathom the depths, and nuances, of the situation because I am, so to speak, physically handicapped in that sense.
Is it even a common sense idea for a "straight" male to want to include same-sex sex in one of his stories given his wholly opposite sex experiences?

All I can say is "read, read, read".

I had one, drunken experience giving a guy head when I was a teen (well trying too, anyway. He didn't cum, so I must have sucked. Or perhaps not.) That's my sole experience with a man. But I included MF sex scenes in Forty (and have more in a forthcoming chapter of Love is a Place). All I did was draw on years of experience of reading such scenes in books (off the top of my head, I was probably inspired by Jilly Cooper, JM Auel and Colleen Hoover).

So, I would say if you want to write same-sex stories, read, read, read. On here, for sure, but maybe off Lit too. I'd recommend Sarah Walter's "Tipping the Velvet" for FF, Alice Winn's "In memoriam" for MM, and Freya Markse's "A Marvellous Light" triology for both. Interestingly, both Alice and Freya are women, but I felt they wrote brilliant MM scenes (maybe actual male homosexuals would disagree with me here. I don't know.)

If that's a lesbian encounter, I hear nothing but fabulous things about @THBGato and @onehitwanda's work.

**blushes** Thank you so much! **fans self**

 

[Yogma]

I came to creative writing via technical report writing, which was something of a blessing and a curse. It was a blessing because it allowed me to plan out and have a structure for the story before I began to write the body of the text, but it was a curse because I had to work really hard for my first couple of stories for them not to come off as sounding too formal and rigid in their structure.

The process I use is that I start with a story planner document. The elements of the document are a two to three sentence synopsis of the whole story, a character list to help me remember names, and then I do high level bullet-points for the key moments within the story. Once I'm happy with the high level bullet-points, I'll then go back and add second tier bullet-points, which add things like descriptive elements or conversation snippets to the key points. For a final story of around 40k words, I'll usually produce about 2-3 pages of bullet points.

Once I've edited or rearranged the flow of the story planner to the point I'm happy with it, then I'll open up a new document and write the first draft, whilst using the story planner as a loose reference.

The first draft usually goes pretty smoothly, as by this time I've had the concept of the story wandering through my head for a few weeks.

The longest part for me is getting from the end of the first draft to the final draft, as I tend to take long breaks between each polishing pass in order to view it with fresh eyes each time.

It might be a bit of a formulaic approach, but it works for me.

 

[StillStunned]

Adding a link to this thread by @TheOtherTeacher: Your simple writing tips.

 

[BuckyDuckman]

when they've never experienced it?

That's the crux of your question, isn't it? One of my favorite books happens to be "Call of the Wild" by Jack London, but I'm pretty sure he was never a sled dog. As a man, I know how it feels to have an aching, throbbing hard-on. I don't know if a clit aches and throbs like that or if it feels the same way as an aching, throbbing hard-on - but I DO believe that aching desire for attention remains the same regardless of gender. The same with that question of "should I or shouldn't I?"

Good luck with your writing!

 

[TheLobster]

How am I going to write about a lesbian encounter and make it sound believable not a parody of some sleazy 70's B-Grade porn flick?
I read lesbian stories here and my mere male mind can't seem to fathom the depths, and nuances, of the situation because I am, so to speak, physically handicapped in that sense.

@THBGato has pretty much covered most of the subject, and pointed you to an entire bookcase worth of reading material to peruse as I expected. I just wanted to focus on this bit specifically.

The purpose of writing is communication: you want to implant thoughts, feelings, and ideas in your readers' heads, as they are perusing your story. What you want is for the reader to "fathom the depths and nuances of the situation"; you, as a writer, don't necessarily have to. You use words to effect a temporary change in reader's mind, so that they can relate your writing to their own experiences. If you do it successfully, and the reader is a woman, she will know what your female characters your experiencing even if you don't, and never will.

Act as a middleman, from your characters' experiences to your readers' minds. At first you may do it by simple imitation, in which the aforementioned bookcase will be immensely helpful; but soon you will internalize ineffable patterns that will allow you to craft those experiences more or less from scratch. You will learn the essence of the sensual language beyond the facade of mere words. All it takes is practice.

 

[DeMont]

@THBGato has pretty much covered most of the subject, and pointed you to an entire bookcase worth of reading material to peruse as I expected. I just wanted to focus on this bit specifically.

The purpose of writing is communication: you want to implant thoughts, feelings, and ideas in your readers' heads, as they are perusing your story. What you want is for the reader to "fathom the depths and nuances of the situation"; you, as a writer, don't necessarily have to. You use words to effect a temporary change in reader's mind, so that they can relate your writing to their own experiences. If you do it successfully, and the reader is a woman, she will know what your female characters your experiencing even if you don't, and never will.

Act as a middleman, from your characters' experiences to your readers' minds. At first you may do it by simple imitation, in which the aforementioned bookcase will be immensely helpful; but soon you will internalize ineffable patterns that will allow you to craft those experiences more or less from scratch. You will learn the essence of the sensual language beyond the facade of mere words. All it takes is practice.

@TheLobster, @THBGato,
When TheLobster uses the term "middle man" are you thinking that it would be easier/ more believable if you were writing 3rd person and describing a sequence of events to begin or do you believe that writing from a 1st person (involved in the action) would come across more palatable for the prospective audience? I ask because I have begun experimenting with both and the latter seems somewhat stilted whereas the first relieves the writer of the burden of having to explore emotions and sensations, simply observe results.
Deepest respects,
D.

 

[THBGato]

whereas the first relieves the writer of the burden of having to explore emotions and sensations,

Personally, I'd wonder why you would want to avoid exploring those. Emotions are what make a story engaging (IMO) and sensations help the reader immerse themself, relate and suspend disbelief. It's more straightforward doing those in first person, but entirely possible in third.

From a purely practical point of view, if you do want to write same sex stories, first person is much easier. Then you write "I and she" or "I and he", rather than the potentially confusing "she and she", "he and he". Nearly all my stories are first person, partly for this reason. I use third when I want to add a little distance for stylistic reasons.

 

[filthytrancendence]

When TheLobster uses the term "middle man" are you thinking that it would be easier/ more believable if you were writing 3rd person and describing a sequence of events to begin or do you believe that writing from a 1st person (involved in the action) would come across more palatable for the prospective audience? I ask because I have begun experimenting with both and the latter seems somewhat stilted whereas the first relieves the writer of the burden of having to explore emotions and sensations, simply observe results.
Deepest respects,

I know you didn't ask me, but I've been thinking and talking a lot about perspective lately.

And I think that's kinda what you're missing here. I think easier and more believable is the wrong question to ask. The question is, what serves your story better? And that's not just about pronouns, but perspective.

If you've a story in mind that can be told from a single perspective, I recommend using 1P. There is an immediacy and intimacy to 1P, and if you're having trouble with perspective, practicing writing in 1P is the best place to start. It forces you to think through the limitations of what your character sees, feels, knows, etc. It is easier to make this perspective believable because it is the perspective we exist within, so you have a lot of practice with it even if you've not written with it much.

If your story needs a broader perspective, you should use 3P. Sometimes that means you need to follow several different characters around in order to tell the story, and that's not something you can really do in 1P. It should not relieve you of the burden to explore emotions or sensations, at least not most of the time. It just lets you do so from more than one point of view.

Within 3P, there are 2 common subtypes. Omniscient and perspective locked. The voice of the omniscient narrator comes from outside the story. They are an observer with a god's eye view and can know anything without need for justifying why. This can be very useful, for obvious reasons. But it's also the most distant perspective. When done well, it's simply an engaging storyteller, spinning a yarn and turning it's eye to anywhere the story needs it to go.

Perspective locked 3P uses 3rd person pronouns and perspective but adopts the same constraints as 1P. The inner thoughts and feelings of the PoV character are accessible to the narrator, but only for the PoV character. This has the disadvantage of distancing the reader from the character somewhat compared to 1P, but the enormous advantage of allowing you to switch perspectives between chapters or breaks. You are locked to a character at any given time, but you're not locked to the character for the whole story, in other words.

So with that in mind, ask yourself, what does your story require? Can it be told from one person's PoV? Then definitely use 1P. Do you need somewhere in the neighborhood of 2-4 perspectives? Consider 3P locked. Do you need the narrator to be able to float through the narrative without much regard for perspective? 3P omniscient is probably your best bet. There's more to it, of course, but that's how I'd re-frame the question. With practice, you can make all of these believable. And as you practice each one, you'll get a better feel for the more nuanced pros and cons of each.

 

[SkyBubble]

Some tools work better in a given circumstance than other, similar tools. Learning how to use a tool is just as important as learning when to use a tool.

I agree with this. You don't use a hammer to drive a screw, and you don't use a screwdriver to pound nails.

 

[SkyBubble]

From the beginning my writing has improved when I read the work of others better than I, not to emulate them, but to see how the good ones do it.

T.S. Eliot once said that "immature poets imitate; mature poets steal."

 

[SkyBubble]

I use the word "then" a lot. Some people might say too much. There's a tendency to associate it with "and then this happened, and then that."

But I find it very useful for indicating a pause.

"I'm going out tonight," she said.
He looked up. "Ah." Then: "You won't be coming home, will you?"

It works best with very sparse descriptions and dialogue, but I like it as a tool for indicating a beat, or a break, or a moment of reflection.

I used to be accused of using "Now" too frequently. I made a conscious choice to cut it from my writing.

 

[SkyBubble]

Meta-advice: when somebody gives you advice, it's usually something that works for them. Writing being an intensely personal thing, the same advice might not work for you.

True. AND that advice should always be considered to see if it works for you. Try it on like you would try on clothes. Maybe they fit, maybe they don't. You don't know until you try them on.

 

[SkyBubble]

a simple short story of some folks enjoying sex and sex-adjacent shenanigans

Isn't that pretty much what every story on the site boils down to?