A place to discuss the craft of writing: tricks, philosophies, styles

[StillStunned]

A thread specifically about holding the reader's attention: Making the reader finish.

 

[NuclearFairy]

As someone whose formal education, to put it in polite words was crap I really appreciate this thread. Because oftentimes, I don't even know what I don't know.

Sometimes I just feel like a blind guy flailing around with a paintbrush, never sure if there's even paint on the brush or how often I'm actually touching the canvas, or if there's anyone in the room to ask advice from. (Yeah I know, bad analogy, a blind man would be able to feel the difference in weight of a loaded and not loaded brush and would be able to feel when the brush is against something, and could very likely hear the mother fucker stifling their laughter across the room.)

But anyways, this thread has been a huge help.

 

[FrancesScott]

A place to discuss the craft of writing: that's what the AH is, according to its description. To socialise too, but I think we get enough of that.

So let's discuss the craft. Don't be shy of you're self-taught, or if you're just mucking around, or if you've got terrible imposter syndrome. If you've written anything, and particularly if you've published it for people to read, you're a writer. And for at least a short space of time your words and imagination have lived in other people's minds. You've occupied their head, they've occupied your world. You're a writer, you've lived the craft.

I'd like this to be a thread where we can share our tips and tricks, our philosophies, our styles, our likes and dislikes, our frustrations and our triumphs. What worked and what didn't, and what we learned from both. Whatever moments you've had as a writer that you've thought "This is part of what makes my stories." Whatever helps you to get the words out of your head, onto the page and into the reader's head.

Like I mentioned above: don't be shy. I once had a professor who said, "The only stupid question is the one you don't ask." Likewise, I say, "The only useless thought is the one you don't share." So let's also make this a positive thread and not crap on anyone else's offerings. We're all at different stages in our development, we all have different approaches, we all have different ideas about what we want to achieve, and we all have different priorities. What seems trivial to you is quite possibly quintessential to someone else's experience.

I often start with just the seed of an idea. It’s frequently related to something to do with real life.

So, in my first story here (but not my first story), I was visiting my folks and went to an ice cream place I used to like when growing up. There was a cute young woman serving, who had her hair pulled into a ponytail through a baseball cap. And I was sure I knew who she was. Turns out I was right, it was the younger sister of a girl I knew at high school. Anyway, that turned into Ice Cream, the initial idea was someone going back to their childhood home and recognizing a younger woman.

But then I turned it all around. The narrator ended up being a guy, because why not? He visited the ice cream shop alone, whereas I had been accompanied. He’d just got divorced, fingers crossed I haven’t. The appearance and age of the woman were different. The story is entirely made up.

I’d also just finished re-reading one of my favorite novels (though I’ve seen people here saying it’s overrated), and I had the crazy idea of taking my ice cream concept and turning it into a short story pastiche of the author’s canonical 1920s style.

I mention this not to boost my humble story, but to say that I often start in one place, add in other factors, and end up in quite a different one.

My process is often asking questions? Why did the guy leave his hometown? Why did he get divorced? Why might the younger women be so interested in him? How are the answers going to be revealed in the narrative? And so on.

It’s an almost playful process.

 

[FrancesScott]

Not to beat a dead horse, but another example. My lesbian short story, Bilingual, started as no more than thinking about the literal meaning of the word.

 

[MelissaBaby]

Not to beat a dead horse, but another example. My lesbian short story, Bilingual, started as no more than thinking about the literal meaning of the word.

The genesis of my lesbian romance Oyster River came simply from the thought that that would be a cool title. It's a real river in midcoast Maine.

I thought about the sexual connotations of the word "oyster" and its symbolic relationship to the vagina. So...lesbian story.

Thinking about coastal Maine, I mulled over one of the central social facts of life there, the love/hate relationship between the local working people and the summer people and tourists.

So, a local girl and a summer girl fall in love.

It's a typical city mouse/country mouse set up, how to change the formula? Make the country girl the experienced one, and the city girl the innocent.

Mix in my favorite theme, second chances, and you've got a story with a 4.86 rating.

Because I saw a sign that said "Oyster River Road."

 

[AG31]

I often start with just the seed of an idea. It’s frequently related to something to do with real life.

My stories are recordings of fantasies, and the fantasies pretty much emerge full blown. The fun in writing is in finding the words to use.

 

[FrancesScott]

Can I ask about something specific? Alliteration. I know you can overdo it, and it becomes distracting. But do any other authors like using it? I’m a decidedly dedicated devotee.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Can I ask about something specific? Alliteration. I know you can overdo it, and it becomes distracting. But do any other authors like using it? I’m a decidedly dedicated devotee.

Occasionally, but not as blatantly as your extremely exaggerated example. I more often use a pair of words, and maybe a sentence or so later, either repeat the pair or reverse the words. It has a similar effect, I think. No-one has specifically commented one way or the other, so I don't really know if it's artifice or subtlety, but I do it often enough that dedicated fans will see it as part of EB's style.

Like all things, though, in moderation is best - but when you do it, do it deliberately. There's nothing worse than discovering you do something often, when all it is, is a writer's tic.

 

[FrancesScott]

There's nothing worse than discovering you do something often, when all it is, is a writer's tic.

I don’t just do it deliberately, I do it wantonly.

 

[MelissaBaby]

Can I ask about something specific? Alliteration. I know you can overdo it, and it becomes distracting. But do any other authors like using it? I’m a decidedly dedicated devotee.

In my opinion, good writing doesn't call attention to itself.

 

[FrancesScott]

In my opinion, good writing doesn't call attention to itself.

Good aliteration doesn’t either. Think the final line of The Great Gatsby (or its title).

 

[FrancesScott]

Good aliteration doesn’t either. Think the final line of The Great Gatsby (or its title).

And a counter point. Good writing is not one single thing with a set of rules. It can be flashy and attention-seeking, it can be understated to the point of almost disappearing into the background. Different authors are great for different reasons.

 

[MelissaBaby]

Good aliteration doesn’t either. Think the final line of The Great Gatsby (or its title).

I wouldn't describe either as "wantonly alliterative."

 

[MelissaBaby]

And a counter point. Good writing is not one single thing with a set of rules. It can be flashy and attention-seeking, it can be understated to the point of almost disappearing into the background. Different authors are great for different reasons.

I never said it was one single thing, I merely gave my opinion, and labelled it as such.

 

[FrancesScott]

I wouldn't describe either as "wantonly alliterative."

I wasn’t describing my style as ‘good.’ I have a problem, I need alliteration therapy.

 

[FrancesScott]

I never said it was one single thing, I merely gave my opinion, and labelled it as such.

Got you. It’s like music. Which is superior, the tightly controlled baroque brilliance of Bach, or the darkly dramatic dynamism of Beethoven? It’s a matter of opinion (the phrase you use).

 

[dirk2024]

Some random thoughts about my writing "philosophy," after a lifetime of enthusiastic reading and 8 1/2 years of enthusiastically writing dirty stories:


8. Use substitutes for "said" and "asked" sparingly, and only for a good reason in the circumstance.

I always feel like I am overusing these two words.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I always feel like I am overusing these two words.

They're the invisible speech tags. I reckon it's better to use them than trying to articulate more into how people talk.

"When I read over-elaborate speech tags," he opined, "I cringe, and move on."

"I know," she raged, "that's shocking!"

It's ridiculous, is what it is, overblown tags like that. He said, she said is nearly always all you need. 70% - 80% of dialogue you don't need tags at all, using context to elaborate on the action or emotion, or the to and fro of the dialogue (between two characters) to know whether you are. If you get lost, that's when you throw in a, "Lisa said," to keep tabs on who's speaking.

 

[FrancesScott]

I reckon it's better to use them than trying to articulate more into how people talk.

“Why do you think that,” inquired Frances, wrinkling her nose in evident puzzlment.

“Dunno, Sheila,” EB boomeranged back at her stereotypically.

“I mean,” she added after a little consideration, “there are so many recherché tags you could employ to artistic effect.

“Like…?” goaded EB in some exasperation.

“Oh, I don’t know,” replied Frances, now deep in thought. “I’m sure there are possibilities.”

“I’ll be a dingo’s dad if there are,” joked EB, while sitting by a billabong.

“Come on, you antipodean curmudgeon,” she teased, “do you have the imagination of a wombat?”

“Now hold on a minute, Sheila,” exclaimed EB, his normal sang getting rather chaud.

“It’s OK,” whispered Frances, “I’m just yanking ya chain, ya dumb lunk.”

 

[StillStunned]

Can I ask about something specific? Alliteration. I know you can overdo it, and it becomes distracting. But do any other authors like using it? I’m a decidedly dedicated devotee.

Over in the "Rip Me To Shreds" thread I posted this snippet:

"The sky was just turning purple over the eastern hills when Avilia stepped out onto the balcony. Pensal was a port, and its trade and activity never truly ceased. But now it slumbered, and in the hour before dawn it was almost peaceful. The rumble of carts and the cries of humans and seabirds were stilled, and the breeze that brought the sharp smell of the sea carried the soft rushing and rolling of waves as well."

There's quite a lot of alliteration going on here, all of it deliberate. I use it to create impressions ("sharp smell of the sea", "soft rushing and rolling of waves"), but also to draw the reader's attention to particular words ("Pensal was a port", "rumble of carts and the cries of humans").

If you're going to use alliteration, or any style tool, don't do it just because you can. Think of the effect on the reader, and decide whether that's the effect you want to achieve.

 

[TheLobster]

After analyzing all aforementioned arguments, I am absolutely adamant authors are ardently advised to always avoid alliteration.

 

[MelissaBaby]

I wasn’t describing my style as ‘good.’ I have a problem, I need alliteration therapy.

So your name is meant to be aspirational, not descriptive.

 

[AG31]

Good aliteration doesn’t either. Think the final line of The Great Gatsby (or its title).

What is the final line of The Great Gatsby?

 

[FrancesScott]

What is the final line of The Great Gatsby?

https://www.google.com/search?q=what+is+the+final+line+of+the+great+gatsby

 

[Areala-chan]

What is the final line of The Great Gatsby?

"So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past."

One of the few lines of literature I've had memorized since we studied it in high school. It meant nothing to me at 15, and everything to me thirty years later.