Imagining your characters

[Bramblethorn]

When you don't get specific, you get comments like : " most people do hot believe when they are told that men are visual creatures, descriptions of mom and the girls i.e. height, weight, body measurements does go a long way in the fantasy process "

IME, people who claim to be speaking for "all men" are invariably over-generalising.

 

[Dreamerman77]

My characters, as far as physical appearance goes, are always blurred to me. I leave it to the reader to imagine them, and give only crucial information, relevant to the storyline.

On the other hand, I concentrate on the background info which to me is important to understand the characters behavior and the story.

 

[Bramblethorn]

This is a two parter and I'd love to get your thoughts on both topics.

1. How detailed is the image of your characters in your mind? Unless they're based on real people, do you build a complete image in your head to the point that you can see their face clearly, you can imagine them smiling, walking into a room? Or is it more of a generic image, for example a blonde apparition with a crooked smile?

I don't visualise much in the way that others apparently do. My physical conception of my own characters is usually at the level of "a short Indian woman with glasses, early twenties". I could make up more specific attributes, but I prefer to focus on writing stories that reflect how I experience the world rather than chasing after how others experience it.

Occasionally I do make the effort to visualise something in more detail - e.g. I drew a sketch of the dress that one character makes, before describing it in depth - but when that happens it's not usually about people.

2. Related to the point above, I've been using ChatGPT to generate images of my characters. I feed it a very detailed description that is in my head and ask it to produce an image that is usually not quite what I had in my mind. Sometimes I'm pleasantly surprised and go with the image it built, other times we go through numerous iterations to get where I want.
Do you think it would be weird to add links to these images at the end or at the beginning of the story so that the reader has an image together with the text? Or is it better to leave it to the reader's imagination? Can I even add links, does the site allow it? The images are 100% non-sexual. The characters are fully dressed, they are alone in the picture and the background may be related to the story (a pub, a party etc) or is just a generic background

As already stated by others, Lit won't let you link externally and doesn't allow AI-generated material. Even if they did, it'd be a negative for me as a reader.

 

[Erozetta]

As already stated by others, Lit won't let you link externally and doesn't allow AI-generated material. Even if they did, it'd be a negative for me as a reader.

AI imagery isn't expressly forbidden from series cover art:

If you’re considering using an AI to generate cover art (or any other visual art), please be aware of any potential copyright and/or ethical considerations regarding AI visual artwork.

From: https://www.literotica.com/faq/series/series-cover-art

 

[pink_silk_glove]

For me, personally, what a character looks like holds very little appeal over how they behave. Who they are is more arousing to me than any physical detail that could be conveyed about them.

With me you get the descriptions and the behaviors. Consider it the bonus package. ; )

 

[Erozetta]

With me you get the descriptions and the behaviors. Consider it the bonus package. ; )

Yeah, the thing is that for me physical description is just a distraction because looks have never played into whether or not I'm attracted to someone. It adds nothing for me, but I know that's an oddity about myself and not something that's common.

Saying someone has blue eyes and a chiseled jawline is like saying it happened on a Tuesday for me. Zero sensual appeal and unless it matters to the plot somehow, it's information that slows down the pace and I don't need it.

I expect such details in sci-fi, fantasy, and somewhat in horror because those genres lend themselves to more visual world building and appearances can play into the plot. But in genres like romance? More often than not, a few seconds after I get past such descriptions I've already forgotten what the characters are supposed to look like and the image in my head is based on their personality regardless of what the author wrote for a description.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Saying someone has blue eyes and a chiseled jawline is like saying it happened on a Tuesday for me. Zero sensual appeal and unless it matters to the plot somehow, it's information that slows down the pace and I don't need it.

But does that description matter to the other lead character?

I expect such details in sci-fi, fantasy, and somewhat in horror because those genres lend themselves to more visual world building and appearances can play into the plot. But in genres like romance? More often than not, a few seconds after I get past such descriptions I've already forgotten what the characters are supposed to look like and the image in my head is based on their personality regardless of what the author wrote for a description.

I also believe that the genre matters. In a murder mystery we do not need a detailed description of the detective for instance. However, we are writing erotica here. Physical appearance, body shapes and such are going to matter a lot.

I do respect that you fully acknowledge that your perspective is a minority, that physical descriptions matter much less to you than to most. I've also written with you so I know that you have a certain authenticity to your work and your opinions, so I believe you. But most of the folks who say that physical traits are not their main turn-on are full of shit. Why are fully stuffed low cut tops and short skirts and high heels so important then?

 

[Bramblethorn]

AI imagery isn't expressly forbidden from series cover art:

If you’re considering using an AI to generate cover art (or any other visual art), please be aware of any potential copyright and/or ethical considerations regarding AI visual artwork.

From: https://www.literotica.com/faq/series/series-cover-art

Ah thanks, I'd forgotten that exception. Consistency would be nice...

 

[Bamagan]

I pretend my readers are dolphins relying mostly on sonar and murky light. I give them the basic shape of the character and (usually) a color palette. Sometimes there are fish.

 

[Erozetta]

But does that description matter to the other lead character?

If it's not written from the other lead character's perspective, it doesn't matter if it would matter to them or not. (And if I'm writing it, probably not beyond a superficial notice of some specific thing, like a tattoo, or scar, or the way a lock of hair gets brushed from a bare shoulder.) There's a difference in description of appearance, and description of appeal. I'm more interested in writing the appeal.

I also believe that the genre matters. In a murder mystery we do not need a detailed description of the detective for instance. However, we are writing erotica here. Physical appearance, body shapes and such are going to matter a lot.

I do respect that you fully acknowledge that your perspective is a minority, that physical descriptions matter much less to you than to most. I've also written with you so I know that you have a certain authenticity to your work and your opinions, so I believe you. But most of the folks who say that physical traits are not their main turn-on are full of shit. Why are fully stuffed low cut tops and short skirts and high heels so important then?

We agree here, the detective's appearance won't matter but the body's appearance here likely will. This is where I lean into descriptions and details.

I'm not saying I don't find certain things more attractive than other things, just that when I'm writing I'm more focused on why the character is appealing, more often than not that has very little to do with their looks.

Honestly, my main turn on is someone who can put up with me being contrary just because I like thinking out what ifs and possibilities, lol.

Like, seriously, I've been attracted to balding overweight guys who were shorter than me, women with saggy boobs, wrinkles and thinning hair, guys who are tall and lanky, and women who could be super models. The attraction was to them as a whole, not aspects of them. I didn't even know what many of them looked like until after I was interested in them. (I socialize mainly online because social anxiety combined with agoraphobia is a bitch on the social life!)

 

[alohadave]

My characters, as far as physical appearance goes, are always blurred to me.

As a reader and as a writer. I almost always imagine faces as either generic or blank.

I don't have face blindness or anything, but facial features are like the least important thing for me to remember or imagine when reading or writing. Who they are and what they do is far more important. This is why I rarely have an issue when an actor is cast that is different than what the book describes. Unless I already had a specific actor in mind for the character, it's a literal blank slate.

 

[alohadave]

I pretend my readers are dolphins relying mostly on sonar and murky light. I give them the basic shape of the character and (usually) a color palette. Sometimes there are fish.

When your characters regularly transform, is it worth giving them detailed descriptions?

 

[iwatchus]

Although I have joined the don't give detailed descriptions bandwagon for the most part,I apparently form more of an image in my head than I realized.

My FMC in WIP is named Angela Lopez and I dutifully googled the name, just in case. Sure enough, that was the name of a character in a TV show. Doesn't bother me, so I won't change the name. But my immediate reaction to seeing a picture of the character (actress) was that isn't her, she doesn't look like that. The actress completely fits every description I have written, but I knew instantly that it wasn't her. Not the Angie I have in my head. I did not realize how clearly I am seeing her in my mind.

I assume that at least one reader will have watched the TV show and be visualizing that actress. That doesn't bother me at all.

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

Why are fully stuffed low cut tops and short skirts and high heels so important then?

Technically, anyone can wear them, 5'1" and 280 or 5'10" and 130, male or female, they have the same effect.

I use stockings and heels on characters almost too often and I've begun to notice it. I might try to pull back a bit. Bikinis too.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Who they are and what they do is far more important.

Well yes and no. In a plot story, yes. In a stroke story, no. The hotness level is more important than their motives or personality, but with a caveat, see below.

This is why I rarely have an issue when an actor is cast that is different than what the book describes.

First off, most movies are not based on books, and those movies that are, most viewers have never read the book. This is the AH so there are more 'readers' here (per capita) than the real world. This doesn't mean that you don't make a good point here. But think about it. Does anyone care that Tom Cruise doesn't look anything like Martin Landau or Peter Graves? No. They just think, "Tom Cruise, Hot! Bring on the sequel!"

For me, it is very easy to write visually. I didn't read a ton when I was young. I grew up in front of a TV. I watched waaay too much TV. The benefit of this however is that I can very easily visualize scenes in my head. It makes them very easy to scene block them and write them visually. I think that this is a bonus to many readers who similarly grew up with more TV/movies than books and can relate to the storytelling in that way.

With this in mind, I actually believe that telling plot heavy stories requires more descriptions of characters to make the story appeal more to those many many visual readers, and if we write it well enough, smooth enough, we won't turn off very many 'book' readers who will still appreciate our prose. Now we don't have to tell every last detail of our main characters but there should be little ambiguity. We should be giving more descriptions of our side characters, not a ton, but enough to add flavor and spice to our scenes. most stories on lit do not do this at all. Depending on the scene, it can be a very immersive tool, making the reader feel like he is in the room with all of these people.

In a stroke story by comparison, the reader loves it if we tell all the physical details of the unicorn character, but we are probably wasting our time if we describe anything at all about anyone else except for dick size. Remember, stroke readers either come from or live parallel lives in porn, and porn is 95% visual and 5% fake orgasm sounds.

 

[yowser]

Here's something else that goes on here. Those of us who do advocate detailed physical descriptions are flatly assumed by many AHers that we mean list descriptions with cup sizes etc and they shout us down. Of course that's terrible writing 99.9999% of the time. But it is perfectly possible to describe a character in detail without any measurements etc. Detailed descriptions can also be done very subtly, and don't have to be listed out in one paragraph. Description elements can be scattered throughout a scene, clothing, hair style, eye color, makeup, etc can be dropped in here and there between lines of dialogue for instance, among other ways. We can still give tons of detail without dropping a list, and we can still do it all early in the story, even the very first scene so that no one gets blindsided in chapter 4 when they find out that the busty blonde that they have been imagining all along is actually a skinny freckled ginger.

Not that stopping for a good detailed paragraph of description is a bad thing. It all depends on how we want to reveal the character, gradually or all at once.

I completely agree with this. In my best stories (answering the OP's first question) the main characters are striking, vivid and folks I would interact with in real life. They are alive visually, aurally, and are (usually) quite tactile. For me as a reader, the details matter if they are done intelligently, perceptively and authentically.

When meeting people socially, or from work or wherever in real life, I cannot avoid noticing that the person I am talking to/gazing at has a dimple, a sweet clavicle, strong thighs, whatever. I NEVER go, oh okay, this person looks like 150 lbs, five foot six feet, whatever, none of that. As a writer my best characters are one that are described form the inside out. I want to convey impressions, how that person makes one feel. Rarely does my entire vision of the character go into words, but in my best stories the important (persona revealing) aspects do. It is not easy.

For good examples of character descriptions in mainstream literature, you cannot do better than Nabokov, Pynchon, Mark Twain or Kingsolver.

 

[PennyThompson]

I wonder if the difference in both opinions and practice here when it comes to character descriptions is related to how people visualize things in general? There's a common visualization exercise that asks you to close your eyes and picture an apple in your mind.

If you're on the right-side of this scale you either visualize a very simplified version of an apple, or you don't visualize anything at all, and can think of an apple in purely abstract conceptual terms.

If you're on the left-side you can visualize not just "apple" but AN APPLE, and can mentally picture it in every detail, as if it were an actual apple being held in your hand.

So like, I'm definitely a one or a two. I can see the color, the imperfections, the speckles on it, feel the texture of its waxy skin, the sensation of pressing my finger into it and feeling the flesh under the skin dimple, smell, taste, everything. I CAN'T think of something without visualizing it.

I'm willing to bet that @pink_silk_glove and @yowser are ones or twos as well

And I'm not suggesting that one part of the spectrum is better than another, just different!

 

[Erozetta]

I wonder if the difference in both opinions and practice here when it comes to character descriptions is related to how people visualize things in general? There's a common visualization exercise that asks you to close your eyes and picture an apple in your mind.View attachment 2552428

If you're on the right-side of this scale you either visualize a very simplified version of an apple, or you don't visualize anything at all, and can think of an apple in purely abstract conceptual terms.

If you're on the left-side you can visualize not just "apple" but AN APPLE, and can mentally picture it in every detail, as if it were an actual apple being held in your hand.

So like, I'm definitely a one or a two. I can see the color, the imperfections, the speckles on it, feel the texture of its waxy skin, the sensation of pressing my finger into it and feeling the flesh under the skin dimple, smell, taste, everything. I CAN'T think of something without visualizing it.

I'm willing to bet that @pink_silk_glove and @yowser are ones or twos as well

And I'm not suggesting that one part of the spectrum is better than another, just different!

I'm a 1.

My husband is a 5, but can be a 3 if he really really tries.

 

[FrancesScott]

How detailed is the image of your characters in your mind?

For me, it varies from story to story. The physical appearance of a character might be very clear in my mind for some (for example my pregnant sex worker in Gravid Games, the female protagonist in More Than Words, the face of the male protagonist in Ice Cream), other times, beyond some basics (they have Asian heritage, they have red hair, they are skinny) I tend to focus more on their characteristics and personality (as in Bilingual).

As with most things in my work, I don’t have a single way of writing, or of visualizing characters. Each story is different.

 

[NaughteeDragon]

I have very detailed descriptions in my head, and during the planning stages of a story I write that description out so that I stay consistent through the story. Inside the story I start with a quick description and add details when they become relevant. Something like:

Kaitlyn leaned forward and squeezed the excess water from her long, thick auburn hair. Allen took a long moment to enjoy the long lean lines of his girlfriend’s tanned athletic body. It made him look forward to the next time they would be alone together.

Later on he’ll place his hands on her grapefruit sized tits. He’ll look into her pale blue eyes and appreciate the smattering of freckles across her nose. She’ll twine her long, delicate fingers with his. We’ll catch her working out because ‘a butt this nice isn’t free’ and she doesn’t want to have a flat butt like her mom.

Honestly, an exhaustive description of a character at the beginning of the story almost invariably leads to me not reading the whole story. Not because I don’t appreciate it, but because it leaves no room to explore later on and it tends to be indicative of a very surface level story.

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

If you write the 4, readers can make the 1 or 2 as they wish.

 

[NaughteeDragon]

I have tried to use chatGPT to create visuals of my characters and it rejects the descriptions I put in because it says I’m trying to create an image of a specific person.

 

[Nynah]

So like, I'm definitely a one or a two. I can see the color, the imperfections, the speckles on it, feel the texture of its waxy skin, the sensation of pressing my finger into it and feeling the flesh under the skin dimple, smell, taste, everything. I CAN'T think of something without visualizing it.

This scale is fascinating to me, thank you for sharing. I think it's a little one-dimensional though in that it really only describes the sense of sight. For you, there are so many other sensory apparatus at play and I think that's a more accurate measurement of what hyperphantasia is. I wonder if there is a term for when someone is visually a 5 but is 1 or 2 for the other senses.

 

[iwannadobadthingswithyou]

Wow, I didn't expect to get so many answers and so varied. Thanks to everyone who responded. I'll just reply here with my thoughts on the conversation so far instead of making 20 individual replies

First of all, I want to clarify that my first question was about how detailed the characters are in your mind, not on your paper. But since the discussion went in that direction, here are my thoughts. I can't imagine a story where no physical description is given at all or even a story where the main characters don't have 1 or 2 distinguishable physical traits. In literature, most times the way a character looks says something about who they are. I can't think of a single character between Odysseus and Tyler Durden who didn't have at least a rough physical description. Having said that, of course I wouldn't just dump it all in a single paragraph like the ingredients on a Snickers bar. I'd chose the most relevant and put them in the story when it makes sense.

Second, I guess I am a visual thinker although I never thought about it before. On that apple scale, if I'm generally thinking about apples, I'm thinking of a 3. But if you ask me to think of an apple, I will probably move farther to the left than 1. I will not only visualise details on the apple, but also the worm who used to live inside it and the bird that ate it. Guess I found out something about myself today.

This is probably the reason why I not only build the image in my head, but I build it with AI. Now, when I say this, please understand that I am not "creating AI art." I'm just creating some props to help me write the story. And, yeah, there's no creativity involved, or even real understanding. Sometimes I have to ask it several times to add a detail (I gave up on placing a mole on one of my characters after the fifth time I asked for it.) But the pictures are there just to keep my imagination running. It's no different than the battery that keeps my laptop running or the coffee that keeps me running.

Lastly, regarding the idea of adding them to the story, my thought was "well, since I have them..." I guess I knew it was stupid before I wrote it, but that's life, sometimes you're the one who raises their hand to ask a stupid question.

PS: to the person who said chatgpt won't accept their descriptions, if you're interested, I can share one of my prompts with you.

 

[Gamblnluck]

I don't generally describe my characters physically. I try to provide more a emotional description through actions. I even slough over picturing them in my own mind. On occasion I think about a body part (round full butt despite the slender body) in some stories where that butt is about to be spanked.