AwkwardMD and Omenainen Review Thread

[filthytrancendence]

Alright, it's my turn to put my money where my mouth is on the chopping block. Or something.

Seduce Her

I haven't been so happy when something I've finished in maybe ever. I feel like my biggest weakness so far has been endings, and I feel like I really, really nailed this ending. Interested to hear your thoughts!

 

[Omenainen]

@Zeronix
link

I second @AlinaX - never apologize for being British! I for one absolutely loved the British-isms. Arse is such a great, great word. Ass is so wimpy and limp compared to arse.

Your writing is on a level where a lot comes down to personal preferences, so if you are happy with your work (as your readers seem to be), feel free to ignore the below.

I do feel this is a step forward from the first story we reviewed. It’s still a whole lot of telling instead of showing, but you do the telling so beautifully. At times I still feel the telling gets the better of you.

You had more meat to the bone this time, more scenes where you let them interact, but the same ungrounded montage feeling of skipping stones is still present. Especially when you got to the sex you could have stayed with them, going into detail, letting them come to flesh (pun intended), and not gloss it over with “he took me so beautifully.” The story was beautifully told, but I feel it could be tighter and less detached with more in-focus scenes and montages could be used strictly to pass time from one grounded scene to the next.

I was unclear if this was a story about sexual awakening or not. I got the impression that he wasn’t new to the idea of gay - at least sex, but then he was hilariously oblivious as to Cameron’s inclination, and then when you did get to sex you claimed it was his first time. I don’t know if readers in Gay Male love “first time gay” as much as readers love “first time lesbian” in Lesbian category, but underlining it (and tagging it) when it’s present might make sense.

There are these snippets, these moments in time you want to capture, but when viewed from a little bit more distance they don’t really make sense. Like Cameron sleeping on the plane home - Paris to London takes what, twelve minutes? It’s not enough for anyone to fall asleep or “coffee to grow cold in my hand.” It’s a sweet mental image, but it doesn’t fit where it’s put. Or them at the hotel balcony - you never took us there, so I was confused: was this where they had sex? I didn’t think they were outside? How exactly were they positioned on “the balcony couch” that they could cuddle like you proposed?

These inconsistencies remind me of the romance story we just read, so maybe read that review too (link). Maybe read the whole story, so you see how it looks when someone else does it. With your own stories, you know all the pieces you didn’t show us, but they will stand out more when it’s someone else’s story.

I think that the worst problem with the story is the characterization. Cameron is very bland. Ed is, too, but since he’s the narrator we get a clearer picture of his inner landscape. This gives him more relatability and substance. Janine is the best character, even if it stems from being a bit stereotypical. My absolutely favorite scene of the whole story is where they are drinking and Ed puts his foot in his mouth, and that’s only possible because Janine is there. By himself, Cameron is (calm and stoic and quietly supportive) about as exciting as a soggy mitten, and so you end up bailing out of scenes with just Ed and Cameron by doing a kind of montage fadeout.

Cameron’s appeal is his calm, steady nature. Ed is drawn to Cameron because the rest of his life is constant, difficult, and stressful. However, 80% of this story is just Cameron and Ed in a room, which means that for the reader calm and steady is the norm. We’re only ever getting shorter scenes that imply longer periods of high activity, high stress. In this regard, you’re fighting uphill. The opposite premise, a character who has a boring life that is spiced up by a bright, shiny, zany character, is a much easier sell. Most people’s lives are boring, because most of us aren’t Olympians.

That being said, the story did work as is. I think the way forward for you is to write more, tighten that screw, grounding the scenes a bit more, sharpening your characterization, finding just the right balance to really nail it. Just keep doing what you’re doing and you’re going places.

Happy writing!

 

[AwkwardMD]

@filthytrancendence
Link

In your original request, you mentioned how proud you were of the ending, so we’ll start there, briefly, and work backwards; there is no seduction in this story. When asked if she wants to go on a date despite having just met, your FMC inexplicably says yes. When asked if she wants to go home with your MMC despite having spent all of about 5 minutes together, your FMC inexplicably says yes. When asked if she wants to sleep with him despite a total runtime of about 15 minutes at this point, your FMC inexplicably says yes.

These are choices the plot needed her to make, and so she made them.

We will be referring back to these points as we talk a little bit more, as we expand on this, but we’re gonna keep it simple and mostly just talk about how important these moments are.

We have often talked about the concept of realism as a net good, but really we use that term incorrectly; broadly speaking, we want verisimilitude. The difference between verisimilitude and realism is that verisimilitude is just a passable approximation of reality whereas realism does what it says on the tin.

Realism is, at its core, a desirable trait for a story. This is the doorway to being relatable; our lives are real. We are people, and characters are (largely) people. For contrast, try and imagine how two rubber bands would have sex. I could, objectively speaking, write the hottest rubber band-on-rubber band action this world has ever seen, but would that work for any humans? Would anyone think that was hot? Would anyone even think it was interesting?

The point of every piece of work put onto this site, and really all fiction everywhere, is to give your readers a chance to see something through your eyes. That’s how it works. Readers want the characters to be people, because the readers are people. We are able to slot in because of, and through, the similarities. Luke Skywalker starts off Episode IV not knowing anything about the Force, or the Empire, or the rebellion. His life is boring? Wow, he’s just like me! My life is boring! His questions are our questions, and as he grows we root for him. That being said, realism reflects reality, always. It’s kind of a limiting concept in fiction. If you have ghosts, it’s no longer “realistic”. Superheroes, aliens, monsters, vampires, lightsabers, etc; these elements, which make for great stories, are incompatible with the concept of realism, and this is where we reintroduce verisimilitude.

It’s like realism, if X is true. If ghosts exist, then my infinitely curious peace-and-love protagonist would probably be super hyped to talk with one, maybe even be open to the prospect of sex with one. If ghosts exist, then my traumatized protagonist would probably interpret just about every interaction as hostile, and would fight or flee any paranormal signs. Verisimilitude is you letting your characters treat an unrealistic premise as if it was realistic. Questioning things that might not make obvious sense.

This requires you, the creator, to interrogate which parts of your story might not make obvious sense, and then find ways to give yourself the opportunity to address them.

Your MMC is pretty believable. Who among us would pass on sex with a pretty young thing when it’s pushed on us? Who wouldn’t appreciate a spouse who provides reliable marital sex but also sometimes sets us up with side strange? Good job so far. The premise you have here, a husband and wife who play games and keep things spicy, is an interesting elevator pitch, but all of the most interesting parts are happening outside of the story on the page. How did these two people find this outlet for themselves? How did the wife pick this woman? How did she convince this woman? What is this woman’s backstory that she’s this-overwhelmed this-quickly? How did the wife see this going?

A lot of interesting meaty questions that could have fleshed out a different, longer version of this story, but how is not the real problem holding you back.

It’s why.

Let’s walk through the plot in the shoes of the other main character, the girl. She’s previously met some woman, ostensibly a neighbor, who has asked her to deliver a note to her husband. Why would she, though? Try to imagine one of your own neighbors trying to get you to deliver something to their house. How many of us would throw up our hands, no matter what the note said, and say something to the effect of “I don’t want to get involved” ?

She walks up to this older man, hands him the special note. He reads it, and then proceeds to tell her about cameras while getting right up into her personal space. This somehow makes the girl so hot that she spontaneously kisses him. Why would she, though?

He invites her into his house, and she says yes. Why would she, though?

<blowing right past her sobbing at his honesty> He invites her upstairs into his marital bed, and she says yes. Why would she, though?

I want to make it clear at this point that none of these are bad choices, or choices that no woman would make in isolation, but all of them require some nuance. She’d need to be a little bit whimsical, a little bit carefree, a little bit free-love, a little bit naive-but-also a little bit traumatized, and, importantly, a little bit of a bad girl. That’s quite a needle to thread, and this is a character for which the reader has zero insight. Zero backstory. By comparison, the only trait your MMC required was the ability to be horny when a hot young girl approached him.

This girl should have been your main character. Give us access to her inner thoughts, a little bit of her backstory, her history, and her outlook on life. The required ingredients to get a woman like this are rare (hence, verisimilitude vs realism), but not impossible. A little bit of finesse (and a huge change in perspective) would let you craft a woman who fits the order, and then suddenly this is a very different story.

 

[filthytrancendence]

@AwkwardMD, I appreciate your perspective.

Right or wrong, I took the setup as straightforward fact from the perspective of the PoV character. I see what you're saying that my hand as author in choosing how Evelyn responded to him comes off as my making her make the decisions the plot needed her to make.

You're right to feel that way, I think. I created Evelyn through the process of putting her on this page in this story, trying to find in retrospect what kind of person would make the decisions she made. I think I did get there eventually, but I ought to have backed up and brought the audience up to speed with that before dropping her into the scenario with no context for who she is.

Another way to say that is I was too personally invested in the MMC's frame and neglected some of my role as the author of Evelyn's frame. I'm beginning to see I've made a habit of that to some extent, partly as a product of my process. It's definitely something I need to overcome, and I will work on that.

I agree it would very likely be more interesting to tell this story from Evelyn's perspective. I may write that story some day. I'm not sure it does much good to tell myself 'I should have planned and outlined this better when I was writing it' because frankly it probably would not exist if I had tried at that point. The writing of this story helped me grow in some important ways, and learning from the shortcommings of this story are also helping me grow in other important ways.

 

[iwannadobadthingswithyou]

@AwkwardMD and @Omenainen

This is a great thread, guys, thanks for doing this.

If you guys have time, I'd love it if you could have a look at my newest story. It's 2 chapters so far (5 Lit pages in total) of a 4 or 5 chapter series.

Since this is only my second story here, I'm looking for any kind of criticism, good or bad. Don't feel like you have to spare my feelings if you think there are flaws.

My Sister Figured Me Out Pt. 01
My Sister Figured Me Out Pt. 02

Thanks in advance,
A.

 

[Omenainen]

Another way to say that is I was too personally invested in the MMC's frame and neglected some of my role as the author of Evelyn's frame. I'm beginning to see I've made a habit of that to some extent, partly as a product of my process. It's definitely something I need to overcome, and I will work on that.

It’s extremely common to write personal fantasies that work only if identified very closely with the (usually male) protagonist. Overlooking all the kinks and pairings, I’d wager “sexy things happening at a passive, bland guy” is the most often visited trope on Lit. There’s nothing inherently wrong with it, but is it good writing? Usually not. How much of an error that is depends on your goals.

 

[Zeronix]

@Zeronix
link

I second @AlinaX - never apologize for being British! I for one absolutely loved the British-isms. Arse is such a great, great word. Ass is so wimpy and limp compared to arse.

Your writing is on a level where a lot comes down to personal preferences, so if you are happy with your work (as your readers seem to be), feel free to ignore the below.

I do feel this is a step forward from the first story we reviewed. It’s still a whole lot of telling instead of showing, but you do the telling so beautifully. At times I still feel the telling gets the better of you.

You had more meat to the bone this time, more scenes where you let them interact, but the same ungrounded montage feeling of skipping stones is still present. Especially when you got to the sex you could have stayed with them, going into detail, letting them come to flesh (pun intended), and not gloss it over with “he took me so beautifully.” The story was beautifully told, but I feel it could be tighter and less detached with more in-focus scenes and montages could be used strictly to pass time from one grounded scene to the next.

I was unclear if this was a story about sexual awakening or not. I got the impression that he wasn’t new to the idea of gay - at least sex, but then he was hilariously oblivious as to Cameron’s inclination, and then when you did get to sex you claimed it was his first time. I don’t know if readers in Gay Male love “first time gay” as much as readers love “first time lesbian” in Lesbian category, but underlining it (and tagging it) when it’s present might make sense.

There are these snippets, these moments in time you want to capture, but when viewed from a little bit more distance they don’t really make sense. Like Cameron sleeping on the plane home - Paris to London takes what, twelve minutes? It’s not enough for anyone to fall asleep or “coffee to grow cold in my hand.” It’s a sweet mental image, but it doesn’t fit where it’s put. Or them at the hotel balcony - you never took us there, so I was confused: was this where they had sex? I didn’t think they were outside? How exactly were they positioned on “the balcony couch” that they could cuddle like you proposed?

These inconsistencies remind me of the romance story we just read, so maybe read that review too (link). Maybe read the whole story, so you see how it looks when someone else does it. With your own stories, you know all the pieces you didn’t show us, but they will stand out more when it’s someone else’s story.

I think that the worst problem with the story is the characterization. Cameron is very bland. Ed is, too, but since he’s the narrator we get a clearer picture of his inner landscape. This gives him more relatability and substance. Janine is the best character, even if it stems from being a bit stereotypical. My absolutely favorite scene of the whole story is where they are drinking and Ed puts his foot in his mouth, and that’s only possible because Janine is there. By himself, Cameron is (calm and stoic and quietly supportive) about as exciting as a soggy mitten, and so you end up bailing out of scenes with just Ed and Cameron by doing a kind of montage fadeout.

Cameron’s appeal is his calm, steady nature. Ed is drawn to Cameron because the rest of his life is constant, difficult, and stressful. However, 80% of this story is just Cameron and Ed in a room, which means that for the reader calm and steady is the norm. We’re only ever getting shorter scenes that imply longer periods of high activity, high stress. In this regard, you’re fighting uphill. The opposite premise, a character who has a boring life that is spiced up by a bright, shiny, zany character, is a much easier sell. Most people’s lives are boring, because most of us aren’t Olympians.

That being said, the story did work as is. I think the way forward for you is to write more, tighten that screw, grounding the scenes a bit more, sharpening your characterization, finding just the right balance to really nail it. Just keep doing what you’re doing and you’re going places.

Happy writing!

Thanks so much! I decided to let this sit for a while before replying.

Re-reading my story, I definitely see what you mean re: the ungrounded feeling. Things happen maybe a bit too quickly, possibly bc I try to cram in too much. Eg I never show Ed actually training for anything. I think I could definitely have fleshed out lots of other parts of thr story; OTOH I was worried it was already getting to a somewhat unwieldy length.

And yeah I see how Cameron is pretty boring. It’s plausible that’s just the kind of character I’m drawn to haha. But I guess it’s not everyone’s cup of tea.

Thanks so much again for the feedback! Hope I’ll do even bigger and better things going forward.

 

[Omenainen]

Hope I’ll do even bigger and better things going forward.

You will! No doubt in my mind.

 

[lovecraft68]

Well, the last year or so I've been looking to knock a few things off my "I need to give this a go before my time comes to an end here."

One of those things is to do what I always tell others to do and that's back the smack.

So, why not come here and get a few smacks?

I was just ready to post a link here, then thought I should go way back to page one and see if there's limits and saw its a 10 page limit, and of course my pick-A mom son drama fest-is 12.

I'm going to head back to my file and find something under ten and return shortly.

 

[AwkwardMD]

I could write a small book outlining all the times you've taken unprovoked shots at me and this thread over the years, but I was ready to overlook all of that in the name of hatchet burying. You and I had a streak of like 3 interactions in a row that didn't end in you being cruel for no reason, and that was honestly enough for me. I was ready to sit down and spend 5-10 hours reading one of your stories (they're all long and I read slowly) and then maybe 10-20 hours mulling it over in the back of my mind, a couple hours discussing it with Omen, and then maybe 2-4 hours writing a thousand words talking about this and that. I was ready to do all of that, and then you posted this.

I volunteer my time and attention for complete strangers, and ask for nothing in return except basic levels of decency in our interactions.

No reviews for those on my ignore list.

 

[PennyThompson]

I could write a small book outlining all the times you've taken unprovoked shots at me and this thread over the years, but I was ready to overlook all of that in the name of hatchet burying. You and I had a streak of like 3 interactions in a row that didn't end in you being cruel for no reason, and that was honestly enough for me. I was ready to sit down and spend 5-10 hours reading one of your stories (they're all long and I read slowly) and then maybe 10-20 hours mulling it over in the back of my mind, and then maybe 2-4 hours writing a thousand words talking about this and that. I was ready to do all of that, and then you posted this.

I volunteer my time and attention for complete strangers, and ask for nothing in return except basic levels of decency in our interactions.

No reviews for those on my ignore list.

And during Pride Month, even

 

[lovecraft68]

I could write a small book outlining all the times you've taken unprovoked shots at me and this thread over the years, but I was ready to overlook all of that in the name of hatchet burying. You and I had a streak of like 3 interactions in a row that didn't end in you being cruel for no reason, and that was honestly enough for me. I was ready to sit down and spend 5-10 hours reading one of your stories (they're all long and I read slowly) and then maybe 10-20 hours mulling it over in the back of my mind, a couple hours discussing it with Omen, and then maybe 2-4 hours writing a thousand words talking about this and that. I was ready to do all of that, and then you posted this.

I volunteer my time and attention for complete strangers, and ask for nothing in return except basic levels of decency in our interactions.

No reviews for those on my ignore list.

Fair enough. I stand by my opinions even when not trendy. Thank you for speaking to me of it.

 

[Omenainen]

No reviews for those on my ignore list either, though AMD's is more extensive

 

[Omenainen]

@iwannadobadthingswithyou
Link
and another link

Hello and welcome to Lit! May you live long and prosper! This is a great hobby.

It’s difficult to review a story that’s incomplete. It limits what we can cover. How could we say anything about the plot or flow when we only have a part of it? Personally, I favor standalone stories, not only for review purposes but in that it forces the author to deal with having a well-defined story arc. Some authors use series format for “I’ll just noodle as long as I continue having new ideas for my characters,” which is more akin to soap opera productions than good writing. (“Look, he wasn’t dead after all, because we need him for this season finale!”) This is fine for people who want to write soap operas, but it’s not what we aim for in this thread.

You have really good parts in this story. Truly beautiful descriptive writing, well-portrayed emotions, relatable vulnerability. Perfect little gems like the guy who defended trans girls in the locker room, that was really good. Little nuggets of gold glittering in the riverbed. I believe that as you write more, you’re able to have more and more of those in a stream that’s less and less muddy.

I’ve often cited the wikipedia definition of short story that says (emphasis mine)

A short story is a piece of prose fiction. It can typically be read in a single sitting and focuses on a self-contained incident or series of linked incidents, with the intent of evoking a single effect or mood.

I remember stumbling into that for the first time and going, but I want to do so much more than a single effect or mood so I am empathetic to the struggle. However, aiming to have a clear idea for the story, some underlying message, helps in polishing the story in most cases. What is it that you’re trying to say? What is this story really about?

From what I can see, this story tries to be two things at once. A serious, emotional coming-out story, and a porn-logic “let’s have a slumber party masturbathon” stroker. These are two horses that are really difficult to saddle at the same time, and they end up undermining each other. Choosing either of them would have let you focus your plotting and characterization with that goal in mind, and I think it would have been better that way. I’m not saying these story aspects absolutely can’t be combined, but I haven’t seen it succeed yet.

Like most new authors, the best advice is to just keep writing. You will find your style and your way of telling the story, as well as the stories you want to tell. You might benefit from trying to write a smaller story, something more clear cut, and see how well you can execute that single idea. Experiment. Try out different formats. Learn to trust the reader: you don’t have to spell everything out, you can hint at things, and they’ll get it.

***

Me and AMD host lists for trans people as people, for stories that portray trans people in non-fetishized manner. I couldn’t tell based on these first chapters whether this is going to be that or not, but if it will, let us know and we’ll add it.

 

[iwannadobadthingswithyou]

Hello and welcome to Lit! May you live long and prosper!

Thank you for taking the time to read my story and to write this feedback. I will do my best to digest it.

 

[PennyThompson]

Hello Omenainen and Dr. Awkward I've admired this thread from afar for a while, and gained many insights by proxy, but never felt like I had anything worth the attention of your loving but merciless dissection.

But as I start prodding at a new story that I have ambitions for, and which might put me out over my skis, I think I'm ready to ask... Would you be willing to take a look at two moderately short stories of mine, which share characters and themes and will probably lead into my next big story?

Accessibility Compliance (5.3k words)
Cosplay Euphoria (7.6k words)

And if both stories are too big an ask, I would happily narrow it down to just Cosplay Euphoria!

I'm always trying to find a satisfying balance between humor and sexiness, fantasy and groundedness, and maybe injecting a little bit of my own worldview and values without getting too preachy.

I know that pacing and detail are things that I struggle with, and I'd like to be more strategic and intentional about those writing choices instead of just instinctive, but... I don't think I know how

 

[countdowntolov3]

I want to make it clear at this point that none of these are bad choices, or choices that no woman would make in isolation, but all of them require some nuance. She’d need to be a little bit whimsical, a little bit carefree, a little bit free-love, a little bit naive-but-also a little bit traumatized, and, importantly, a little bit of a bad girl. That’s quite a needle to thread, and this is a character for which the reader has zero insight. Zero backstory. By comparison, the only trait your MMC required was the ability to be horny when a hot young girl approached him.

I just want to say that not only is this exceptionally well said, it's also super cool how this review meets the author where they are. I think if I'd written the same review, I'f have made similar points, but would have missed this piece. And ultimately I'd have left frustrated that the author and I had different ideas on what it meant for the character to be "believable". Pretty sure I learned something here -- thanks!

 

[filthytrancendence]

I just want to say that not only is this exceptionally well said, it's also super cool how this review meets the author where they are. I think if I'd written the same review, I'f have made similar points, but would have missed this piece. And ultimately I'd have left frustrated that the author and I had different ideas on what it meant for the character to be "believable". Pretty sure I learned something here -- thanks!

I also just want to say how interesting it is to have a flaw pointed out to you in your own work that you can plainly and easily see in other people's work. Honestly, it's been difficult not to succumb to the self-doubt that realization illicits.

I think sometimes there's a pretty big difference between seeing a flaw and then understanding where exactly upstream in the creative process that flaw came from. In asking myself why exactly this work came out this way, the short answer is I was focused on other things. There was a branch in the stream two dozen decisions up from where I landed where I really ought to have thought harder about which way to go, and I just plowed forward in the direction my eyes were already facing.

To stretch this metaphor to the breaking point, it seems to me the tightrope to walk here is successfully internalizing that navigational lesson without allowing it to balloon into decision paralysis at every fork in the river.

 

[AwkwardMD]

I also just want to say how interesting it is to have a flaw pointed out to you in your own work that you can plainly and easily see in other people's work. Honestly, it's been difficult not to succumb to the self-doubt that realization illicits.

I think sometimes there's a pretty big difference between seeing a flaw and then understanding where exactly upstream in the creative process that flaw came from. In asking myself why exactly this work came out this way, the short answer is I was focused on other things. There was a branch in the stream two dozen decisions up from where I landed where I really ought to have thought harder about which way to go, and I just plowed forward in the direction my eyes were already facing.

To stretch this metaphor to the breaking point, it seems to me the tightrope to walk here is successfully internalizing that navigational lesson without allowing it to balloon into decision paralysis at every fork in the river.

Decision paralysis is a real problem.

I started writing when I was 16. I finished several short stories over the course of a few weeks, usually during free study periods or during long assemblies at school. I was so excited by this that I wrote my first "long" story (it might have been 4,000 words) in a feverish afternoon.

After that I didn’t finish another story until I was 33.

I was writing the whole time. Dozens of stories, some of them going through multiple on-the-fly revisions. I would rapidly expand the scope of some ideas, get stuck, shrink them down and start over, and then return to step 1. I'd be like "this sucks" or I'd write myself into a dead end, or I'd keep rewriting a single scene trying to get each word perfect, and completely lose track of the plot in trying to craft the best sentences.

My first erotic story (the first one I submitted to Lit) was that first story, and that took me 3 years of on-and-off work. I was proud to have finished it, let alone to have finished anything, but I was sure I could do better. I tried my hand at a speed writing goal, a self-imposed non-national writing month. I was gonna finish a chapter a week of *something*, with the smallest amount of editing, and publish it no matter what. I just gave myself a prompt (Funny, Sexy Blade Runner) and ran with it.

The end result is a flawed work that I remain proud of largely because of the restraints. I proved to myself that I could trust myself, that I was good enough at the basic levels of writing, and then after that I began a process I am still working on of iterative improvements. I knew my next story wasn't going to be perfect (spoiler alert: it wasn't), but it was better and faster. I just aimed to do a little bit better and then a little bit better. I began to stack up self-defined wins that did good things for my confidence and self-esteem. I'll be 45 this year, and I can look back at my catalog and see growth, improvement, and it makes me happy.

The point I'm trying to make is that you won't solve everything the next time around. In fact, you'll find new ways to fuck up along the way. If you can be honest with yourself about your strengths and shortcomings then it becomes a lot easier to find the next step.

Which brings us back around to decision paralysis. The only way around it is through.

 

[AwkwardMD]

I distinctly remember one thing I was working on where I was trying to fix this ugly sentence, and I determined it was a better sentence if I swapped the POV. The verb forms and the possesive noun were prettier if I wrote it from the perspective of the love interest and not the heretofore protagonist. This was a wild problem to have, but all my wonderful momentum was completely derailed by 1) the thought of rewriting the entire story to suit this one sentence, or 2) going out on a limb and experimenting with multiple rapidly-shifting perspectives. Really shaking up the paradigm of narrative.



My werewolf running a nuclear power plant post-apocalypse story had too much going on.

 

[sinfantasy]

@AwkwardMD and @Omenainen - I am back with another review request. Naked Truths and Open Love is an entry for Nude Day contest and is just published today. Its in exhibitionist and voyeur but has elements from many other categories. It's 23.5K in size, spanning 7 pages. I am ok, if you can pick it now or if you wish to wait for the contest results before touching it.

A bit of Trivia. I prefer to finish a story and flush it out of my mind before I pick the next one. I have not been able to do that recently. Partly cause I want to participate in every available lit event and partly I am also doing survivor challenge. I have touched 9 categories so far, and 2 more in waiting to be published. This has an intended side effect on my writing.

When I started this story, I thought of it as making spicy wings. The way things turned out, I used every available piece of left over meat from freezer and every available spice from my cabinet. Somewhere in the middle, I lost the plot and didn't knew what the hell I was doing. Against my better judgement, I used a common cliche to raise the conflict and forced the story to closure. The only problem I think was, when trying to add honey glaze, I poured half of the bottle in it.

The final product is an abomination that is wicked good. Or at least I hope so.

I got some good stories published since your help with last review. The reason I am asking for this review is, it's more like a check point for me. I have been writing to sweet recently. I plan to change that.

I want to go dark from here. It suits the upcoming events, hammered, crime and punishment, Dark fairy tales, Amorous good, Halloween etc. I also have an axe to grind with L/W readers for the reception of my last story and nasty feedback emails I received. If they crave pain, so be it. I want to burn some hearts to crisp.

Enough of ranting. You both have been tremendous help and I am looking forward for your guidance once again.

 

[filthytrancendence]

Okay, I'm not going to keep clogging up your thread following up on this, but I really appreciate what you said and I think there's a decent chance the additional context might help passersby.

The end result is a flawed work that I remain proud of largely because of the restraints.

That's how I now feel about Seduce Her. I conceptualized, drafted, edited and published the thing in 4 days. Of course it didn't come out perfect. That's just not enough time to make a perfect story of that length at my skill level, if a perfect story even exists. I did, however, gain a lot just from writing it. And I've gained even more from reflecting on it and being open to criticism about it.

I was 7500 words into the draft of my next project when I read your review and haven't touched it since. Most of that is that my mental health imploded for unrelated reasons for a few days. But part of it was paralysis coming from hyper-fixating on whether I was making the same mistake again.

The ironic part is that I had already done a ton on this new project to ensure all my MC's are far more fleshed out than either of the MCs from Seduce Her. If I had just plowed forward, I already would have incrementally improved that. But that's not to say I don't have the capacity and perspective to do even better now. It's just, letting it sit there unfinished is the only true failure state, and that's where I've been letting it sit for a week.

All that to say, I am right now going to go unplug and work on it for a few hours. Thanks for your insight and the follow-ups. I really do appreciate it.

 

[AwkwardMD]

Okay, I'm not going to keep clogging up your thread following up on this, but I really appreciate what you said and I think there's a decent chance the additional context might help passersby.



That's how I now feel about Seduce Her. I conceptualized, drafted, edited and published the thing in 4 days. Of course it didn't come out perfect. That's just not enough time to make a perfect story of that length at my skill level, if a perfect story even exists. I did, however, gain a lot just from writing it. And I've gained even more from reflecting on it and being open to criticism about it.

I was 7500 words into the draft of my next project when I read your review and haven't touched it since. Most of that is that my mental health imploded for unrelated reasons for a few days. But part of it was paralysis coming from hyper-fixating on whether I was making the same mistake again.

The ironic part is that I had already done a ton on this new project to ensure all my MC's are far more fleshed out than either of the MCs from Seduce Her. If I had just plowed forward, I already would have incrementally improved that. But that's not to say I don't have the capacity and perspective to do even better now. It's just, letting it sit there unfinished is the only true failure state, and that's where I've been letting it sit for a week.

All that to say, I am right now going to go unplug and work on it for a few hours. Thanks for your insight and the follow-ups. I really do appreciate it.

There are a lot of lurkers, many of whom are future requesters working up the courage to ask (if past requests are anything to go by). Insight and reflection like this help everyone.

 

[dirk2024]

There are a lot of lurkers, many of whom are future requesters working up the courage to ask (if past requests are anything to go by). Insight and reflection like this help everyone.

Hi, Lurker/Future Requester here. It's nice to meet you.

I only have one story published so far, and it's been picked apart. I have one more that's been submitted (waiting 8 days now), and I am working on a story for the Nude Day challenge now. Maybe I'll throw that one to the werewolves.

 

[AwkwardMD]

@PennyThompson
Link the first
Link the second

Historically, we are much worse at giving positive reviews than negative ones. Let’s see if we can manage something beyond “I loved this! The end!” because we both absolutely, completely loved these stories.

(We might have to adopt you.)

The positives:

Your characters are adorable. You have a natural ear for dialog. Accessibility Compliance is layered with the kind of technical details that make everything work, which shows that you put some real thought into it. If it was gonna be a character throwing a spanner into the works, it was gonna be a fucking ampersand. Current and recovering IT professionals, stand and be counted.

Both stories are really hot. Looooooove to see an enby. Love Rosa. Love the progressive underpinning in just about every choice you made. Love a princess wand. Love the positivity.

I don’t think I can bring myself to call the lack of angst and friction a fault, because I can see that your driving motivation is that positivity. I do think that lack probably holds you back from writing a bigger, singular work (because larger works need a more substantial conflict to justify the arc), but I’d have to be a lot more callous than I am to call that a problem.

You are thriving writing works of this length and scope. Do I want to see you write a 30k word epic that blows my socks off? Hell yes. Do you need that? I don’t think so. We’ve often suggested as much to other authors as a next step, learning how to grapple with complexity, but the subjects you’re tackling are complex enough; you have nothing to prove there.

Given the opportunity and a clear sign, Scout took their shot and it paid off. There are so few characters in my stable who would have had the confidence to do the same (which is 100% a reflection of me as a person). There is a reader who will read your work, who is on the bleeding edge of being confident enough to ask out their crush, and your art will be the thing that pushes them over. That person is out there right now. They’re gonna find you and their life will be better for it, though it may never occur to them to tell you about it afterwards. Fiction is powerful, and I’m deeply impressed with your commitment to using your art to manifest a kinder, more supportive world.

The negatives:

We did not agree on these, or it might be more accurate to say that there was some minor difference between how high and how low we were on some structuring choices of the story/stories and most of it comes down to personal preference. Omen and I are usually in lock step about different story elements, so it’s unusual for us to come to reviews with a two-sided take.

On the one hand, having the cross-reference link inside the story definitionally breaks the fourth wall. I’ve used links like this, in the foreword, but not within the body of a story. Is it bad/wrong to break the fourth wall? No. Many successful authors regularly break the fourth wall, but that’s usually a part of their raconteuring style to directly address the audience. This is more… style by way of functional/technical convenience.

Is that helpful for a Lit readership? Probably. Is this what the future of fiction looks like as we glide toward a cyberpunk reality governed by the actual rule of cool? Maybe? Is that good writing? Well…

We’re also both of the school that a story should stand on its own, with internal justifications for its elements. If two stories are so intertwined that they can’t be told separately, they should probably be one story. On Lit, though, multiple submissions means giving your readers a new piece of content more frequently, and providing opportunities for a single reader to comment on each individual part. That’s a lovely little bonus for them and you, win/win, but is it good writing?

The pitfall of having standalone stories with repeat characters is that it’s difficult to introduce the same characters again and again so that it doesn’t get old. This shows somewhat on Cosplay Euphoria, where in the beginning I had trouble differentiating between the characters, once resulting in me going back to see which was saying what during a lengthy stretch of back and forth dialog. Jeremy being black was a mid-story reveal. These weren’t very jarring but they did slow me down.

Is that bad writing?

We’re on record, often, saying that good writing and success on Lit are different-if-not-quite mutually exclusive goals. I resigned myself years ago to my work never quite reaching the heights of some of my peers because I wasn’t interested in molding what I was doing to the platform, and I’m certain my engagement and readerships are less than what they could have been otherwise. Does that make me a good writer for choosing this hill to die on?

Is what you’re doing now as close to serving two masters as is possible?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

One of us has a policy of never voting for review stories, but we’re following you now and plan to read more of your work. One of us does not adhere to that at all, and gave both stories 5 stars on sight.

Is that good reviewer behavior?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯