Give the readers what they want

[iwatchus]

The last article I posted rapidly descended into a hell hole. So it's time to try another. This just crossed my feed, "Giving the Readers What They Want"

It's a slate review of a book, which was written under the guidance of focus groups. Seems relevant to several discussions we have had here. It is actually two books: one that has what the readers want, one of what they didn't. Of particular relevance, explicit sex scenes made the not wanted side. Of course, we have a biased sample in our audience with regards to that. Also on that side was meta-humor about writing, which may explain my lukewarm reception for my most recent story.

I have not read the book(s) myself and probably won't.

 

[StillStunned]

From a quick skim through the article... The "not wanted" book seems to be not just an element that readers don't want, but a dozen elements. I'm pretty sure most readers will put up with one or two aspects that they don't enjoy if the rest of the book appeals to them.

Which brings me to an important point. Instead of giving readers what they want, isn't it much better to make them want what you're giving them? Throw in those elements that they dislike, but make them compelling. Give them a reason to keep reading, and afterwards say, "Yes, that worked. That was much better than I expected."

 

[AG31]

a slate review of a book

What is a slate review?

 

[Writer61]

What is a slate review?

A review on Slate.com

 

[THBGato]

I'm of the opinion that when writing for free, as we are, the only reader that matters is the writer. Include what you want, write what you enjoy writing.

When I'm beta-reading, I'm always very clear about this: I'll say when I don't like something but also stress that if the author wants it there, then leave it as their view matters more. I would give different feedback if I was beta-reading something for commercial publication.

 

[lovecraft68]

The last article I posted rapidly descended into a hell hole. So it's time to try another. This just crossed my feed, "Giving the Readers What They Want"

It's a slate review of a book, which was written under the guidance of focus groups. Seems relevant to several discussions we have had here. It is actually two books: one that has what the readers want, one of what they didn't. Of particular relevance, explicit sex scenes made the not wanted side. Of course, we have a biased sample in our audience with regards to that. Also on that side was meta-humor about writing, which may explain my lukewarm reception for my most recent story.

I have not read the book(s) myself and probably won't.

Of course explicit sex scenes are what this place is all about, but in mainstream writing not so much.

When women were getting overheated-allegedly-over that weak sauce sex in Fifty Shades its telling of how vanilla sex is even in the bodice ripper style of book.

One of my wife's friends read and raved over fifty shades. My wife gave her a paperback copy of my Driven By Demons which focuses heavily on the BDSM and fetish clubs and seedier underground. She couldn't make it past the third scene and asked my wife if she felt safe.

Props to her for telling me she didn't miss a beat when she replied "Who says I want to feel safe?"

 

[lovecraft68]

I'm of the opinion that when writing for free, as we are, the only reader that matters is the writer. Include what you want, write what you enjoy writing.

When I'm beta-reading, I'm always very clear about this: I'll say when I don't like something but also stress that if the author wants it there, then leave it as their view matters more. I would give different feedback if I was beta-reading something for commercial publication.

Same here. I might suggest come ways to help make it better even if I don't think it fits, but I've never said lose this

Okay, once, I did a thread on it, but it had nothing to do with sex. Just an absurd action scene.

 

[Bazzle]

I'm of the opinion that when writing for free, as we are, the only reader that matters is the writer. Include what you want, write what you enjoy writing.

When I'm beta-reading, I'm always very clear about this: I'll say when I don't like something but also stress that if the author wants it there, then leave it as their view matters more. I would give different feedback if I was beta-reading something for commercial publication.

I agree, we are having fun writing for ourselves.

We can learn to write better, but ultimately the theme and story has to be enjoyable to the authors

 

[Voboy]

I'm of the opinion that when writing for free, as we are, the only reader that matters is the writer. Include what you want, write what you enjoy writing.

Yup.

 

[TheRedLantern]

The least wanted novel is much harder to summarize, encompassing such ostensibly despised elements as stream of consciousness, explicit sex scenes, an extraterrestrial setting, metafictional commentary on novel-writing itself, talking animals, second-person narration, and tennis

@StillStunned ... next writing challenge: "Stoned, tennis playing space weasels tell you how to write porn novels."

 

[Baztrachian]

I'm of the opinion that when writing for free, as we are, the only reader that matters is the writer. Include what you want, write what you enjoy writing.

When I'm beta-reading, I'm always very clear about this: I'll say when I don't like something but also stress that if the author wants it there, then leave it as their view matters more. I would give different feedback if I was beta-reading something for commercial publication.

Ditto that. The things I write for money are considerably different from what I write for myself.

I am grateful for the readership I have and I am also grateful for the commentaries on what I write. But mostly I write for my own pleasure.

 

[Bamagan]

@StillStunned ... next writing challenge: "Stoned, tennis playing space weasels tell you how to write porn novels."

Welcome to my Wednesdays.

 

[StillStunned]

@StillStunned ... next writing challenge: "Stoned, tennis playing space weasels tell you how to write porn novels."

Based on the most recent Writing Exercise, 2P will actually cause the fewest problems.

 

[Dearelliot]

As THBGato said...I agree, for those who like the same things I like, I do try to give them what they want, and if I could make money out of it, I'd try to satisfy more readers...

 

[StillStunned]

As THBGato said...I agree, for those who like the same things I like, I do try to give them what they want, and if I could make money out of it, I'd try to satisfy more readers...

Satisfy more readers? We only have two hands!

 

[Writer61]

Satisfy more readers? We only have two hands!

I feel the need for speed.

 

[iwatchus]

Satisfy more readers? We only have two hands!

Surely you are more creative than that. I have read your stories.

 

[BellaBestia]

when I start to wonder what readers want I think of what Philip Henslowe said to Shakespeare in that movie: “you see? Comedy, Love and a bit with a dog, that’s what they want.” And as we know Wills sometimes delivered that while sneaking in other grander stuff.
I think there should be a balance when publishing for a certain target audience like Lit. Otherwise if we only wrote for ourselves we wouldn’t bother publishing here or anywhere, keeping our feverish scribbling in a journal. The trick is deciding to either blindly follow trends ( like the onslaught of post-50 Shades writing that should have remained in a publishers slush pile) or selectively and creatively pursue some of the ideas of the obviously popular themes while sneaking in grander stuff.

 

[StillStunned]

Surely you are more creative than that. I have read your stories.

I was referring to writing stories. Two hands for typing.

I can't help it that everyone here has a filthier mind than I do.

 

[Voboy]

Otherwise if we only wrote for ourselves we wouldn’t bother publishing here or anywhere, keeping our feverish scribbling in a journal.

When I say "write for myself," I don't mean "write for my own satisfaction."

I mean "write for a reader who's just like me."

 

[iwatchus]

I can't help it that everyone here has a filthier mind than I do.

That's a way higher hurdle that I think I could ever clear.

Remember, we read your stories.

 

[Abbafan]

From a quick skim through the article... The "not wanted" book seems to be not just an element that readers don't want, but a dozen elements. I'm pretty sure most readers will put up with one or two aspects that they don't enjoy if the rest of the book appeals to them.

Which brings me to an important point. Instead of giving readers what they want, isn't it much better to make them want what you're giving them? Throw in those elements that they dislike, but make them compelling. Give them a reason to keep reading, and afterwards say, "Yes, that worked. That was much better than I expected."

That or something they didn't realize they wanted, maybe because they'd never come across something quite like it before.

 

[GoldenMaia]

Not all readers are the same. Find your people and write for them. And write for yourself.
Example: I love Yacht rock, 80's and various grunge. Country when I just want to cry like a baby. I want to read smut with heart, not just the jizz. Monsters and big cocks that are not found in nature. I don't like thrillers and I rarely like comedy. My readers are typically going to be women in their 30's+, maybe some guys when I write raunchy grandma filth ;9

 

[filthytrancendence]

I actually read most of it. I know. *gasp*

The final line is this:

Whatever books the people choose, what really matters is that they have a choice.

Which is a neat encapsulation of the final couple paragraphs. People have too varied of interests for a 'most' anything to mean anything beyond perhaps a sociological curiosity. It seemed like the 'most wanted' novel was a much more cohesive story, which makes sense. But the 'most hated' novel was both more interesting and more boring, depending on which bit of the smorgasbord you're eating from at any given time.

The short version: you're unsurprisingly more likely to end up with something bland that finds a larger audience by taking the 'most wanted' approach. Going outside of that will be more divisive but very likely more interesting.

 

[StillStunned]

The short version: you're unsurprisingly more likely to end up with something bland that finds a larger audience by taking the 'most wanted' approach. Going outside of that will be more divisive but very likely more interesting.

"Most wanted" is why T/I stories have such incredible viewing numbers. I've written a few and got the viewing numbers to prove it, but there are so many other stories I want to tell, even if they struggle to get 1k views.