Do 18-24 year olds have sex any more

[Nynah]

Kids these days aren't having kids because the fucking planet is dying and they can barely support themselves, let alone a child. Not because they mostly figured out that raping each other is bad, actually. And it's infuriating to listen to the generation that doesn't seem to understand that lecture us about how we should be living. We didn't do this. We just have to live with it. The least you can do if you don't understand that is refrain from turning it into rape apologia.

Just from casual research, this is the most accurate answer to "why is our population dwindling?"

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trends-behind-historically-low-us-birth-rate-60-minutes/
https://theweek.com/science/us-fertility-rate-declining-2023
https://news.northeastern.edu/2025/05/05/us-birth-rate-decline/
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4255510/
https://news.sky.com/story/global-b...ave-children-but-many-cant-heres-why-13381290

To suggest that younger generations aren't having as many children because men are respecting "No means no" is quite the leap in logic and doesn't actually appear to be a factor in why birth rates are declining in the West.

 

[SimonDoom]

Indeed.

And now take this approach, scale it up to every man and iterate over the generations. What do you get? A dwindling population, perhaps, which is exactly what we currently see in the West?

(To be clear, this is not a question to you specifically; I'm merely trying to clarify my point that was widely misinterpreted that somehow being "pro-rape" because @MelissaBaby asked me to).

This may be a good thing. As standards of living rise and women attain the economic security to say "no," it becomes less important to insist that women bear ten children to ensure somebody is alive to till father's crops to keep up a subsistence standard of living. My reaction to this sort of thing is less "my god what if we had adopted today's standards then" than "praise the lord those standards aren't needed anymore."

 

[TheLobster]

You know what all those beliefs have in common?

That the planet is, and I quote, “fucking dying,” presumably because future generations will have spend 1-2% of total GDP growth between now and 2125 to mitigate the effects of climate change.

That today is just the absolute worst time to have kids, despite being objectively the most prosperous time in human history.

That individual consent is the highest moral virtue, overriding any other concern.

These beliefs all have expiration date. They fade and vanish, gradually, as those who profess voluntarily opt out of having offspring and thus propagating those values to them, precisely because of said beliefs.

It’s just evolution in action: some memes simply fail to reproduce. But that’s okay, they weren’t fit to survive anyway.

 

[PennyThompson]

You know what all those beliefs have in common?

That the planet is, and I quote, “fucking dying,” presumably because future generations will have spend 1-2% of total GDP growth between now and 2125 to mitigate the effects of climate change.

That today is just the absolute worst time to have kids, despite being objectively the most prosperous time in human history.

That individual consent is the highest moral virtue, overriding any other concern.

These beliefs all have expiration date. They fade and vanish, gradually, as those who profess voluntarily opt out of having offspring and thus propagating those values to them, precisely because of said beliefs.

It’s just evolution in action: some memes simply fail to reproduce. But that’s okay, they weren’t fit to survive anyway.

Pseudo-intellectual eugenic feudalism because dorks are afraid to just say "I feel bad when women say no to me"

 

[MelissaBaby]

And you don't think birth control had anything to do with that?

In my only semi-informed opinion, the three main causes of significant change in birth rates are economics, economics and economics.

 

[MelissaBaby]

I don't think anything, ever, can hope to correct the millennia of injustice and oppression that women suffered at the hands of men. There is nothing that can set that right in my view. As a man, even though I am certain that I've personally never, ever, mistreated a woman, I still feel the burden of guilt that comes from simply belonging to the male sex.

What we've had for a long time now is a transitional period that will, I suspect, last indefinitely. A period where we have traditional values clashing against modern views, where some new biases are being created and lines drawn.
Some injustices are being corrected, but some new problems are being created too. One such problem is this omnipresent labeling and cancelling. If you don't agree with everything we say, you are automatically the enemy. It's all over the social networks. I just hope we can keep those kinds of by-products of these new dynamics away from this place at least.

For example, I find that we agree on a good deal of points, and differ on the rest. And we were able to communicate those points without insults and name-calling.

This place has always been mostly civil, and only by acting when someone keeps stepping over the line can we hope to not let it become the cesspool that most social networks are. As someone who has consistently expressed her opinion, agreement, and disagreement in a calm and civil way, I am sure you understand what I mean.

Overall I agree with your thoughtful post, but I have to push back a little bit on the notion of the severity of "cancel culture. It's largely a myth. Who got cancelled? Kanye? Louis CK? Mel Gibson? The controversies they were involved in were only stutter steps in their careers. And in the working world, in the US at least, the situation has been reversed, with women and people of color being subjected to increased scrutiny based on the notion that any advancement they make is due to "DEI".

 

[FrancesScott]

You know what all those beliefs have in common?

That the planet is, and I quote, “fucking dying,” presumably because future generations will have spend 1-2% of total GDP growth between now and 2125 to mitigate the effects of climate change.

That today is just the absolute worst time to have kids, despite being objectively the most prosperous time in human history.

That individual consent is the highest moral virtue, overriding any other concern.

These beliefs all have expiration date. They fade and vanish, gradually, as those who profess voluntarily opt out of having offspring and thus propagating those values to them, precisely because of said beliefs.

It’s just evolution in action: some memes simply fail to reproduce. But that’s okay, they weren’t fit to survive anyway.

You’re really just flailing about now. But you’ve made your views on consent being unimportant crystal clear several times. Thank you for being so consistent.

Expiration dates are a double edge sword of course. But interesting that you expressed the hope that people who disagree with you die out. Also somehow unsurprising.

And I suspect you don’t have a very firm grasp on either climate science or the modern synthesis either. But hey, your feelings are important, right?

 

[MelissaBaby]

God forbid guys change their behavior in any way whatsoever over the course of decades and centuries as our understanding of power and mutual respect evolve

Won't anyone please think of The West??

Reporter: "What do you think of Western civilization?"

Gandhi: "I think it would be a good idea."

 

[TheRedLantern]

Reporter: "What do you think of Western civilization?"

Gandhi: "I think it would be a good idea."

I was not expecting to be savagely beaten by Gandhi today.

 

[iwatchus]

No one expects the Indian inquisition

 

[PennyThompson]

I was not expecting to be savagely beaten by Gandhi today.

 

[MelissaBaby]

This is 100% true. It's my experience that this is a gendered phenomenon only to the extent that it looks different from each side of that line. Male consent is also disregarded in this culture, it just looks different. None of that is to minimize or detract from the harm it has done to women. Despite what I've been through, I still strongly believe that women have the worse side of the line.

Men's sexual assault is rarely talked about because admitting you've been SA'd is the ultimate admission of failure in your performance of masculinity. That often looks like pretending that you wanted it and acting like you liked it to turn a deep violation into a boisterous brag. Or else pretending like it didn't happen. Or else justifying it and gaslighting yourself to try and escape the violation.

That's why I keep talking about it. I wish I'd seen a man have the courage to say "I've been sexually assaulted" earlier in my life. I understand why I never did, because you tend to get treated like shit, and its a recipe for a mental health implosion if you're not really on top of your shit. And that's not a reasonable thing to expect from people.

I'm a man. I've been sexually assaulted.

Kids these days aren't having kids because the fucking planet is dying and they can barely support themselves, let alone a child. Not because they mostly figured out that raping each other is bad, actually. And it's infuriating to listen to the generation that doesn't seem to understand that lecture us about how we should be living. We didn't do this. We just have to live with it. The least you can do if you don't understand that is refrain from turning it into rape apologia.

I work with people, primarily men, who are transitioning out of incarceration. I wear one of these teal ribbons at the office. When asked what it represents, I tell them that it indicates that I am a survivor of sexual assault. Some of them have opened up to me that they are as well. But I am sure that there are many more who do not, but do get the message that there is someone they can talk to if they need one.




My best to you. Stay strong.

 

[MelissaBaby]

well, so i have held the door open and/or opened it for women outside the workplace.
in other words, a total stranger.
for example, just walking towards the entrance of a store or something, i will hold the door open etc.

i am not thinking of any power dynamic there.
don't know what she does for a living and she has no idea what i do for a living.
just courtesy, being nice kind of a thing.

i have not gone to a space of mind in that moment to say ...she must think that i think of her as a 'helpless lamb' and i am her 'shepherd', so let me not hold this door open for her, let her do it herself.

nah, that does not cross my mind in that moment, honestly.
i just open the door to be courteous basically.
not much to it.

++++++++

If we talk about work-place, i also don't think that way.

for example if someone i was reporting to, was trying to get into the building and I held the door for them, should i be thinking that they would think "oh this guy is opening the door for me and he must think i am not a capable enough to do that myself and he must think i am an incompetent boss".

nah, that too has not crossed my mind.
i just simply do it out of courtesy really.

whether it's a total stranger at work.
someone i report to.
someone who has the same title as me.
someone who reports to me etc.

+++++++

now there Are other acts where definitely it can make the other person feel a certain way.
and one must be mindful of those situations and moments.

holding the door open, i personally just see it as a simple nice gesture.

It is a nice gesture and I don't think you should stop doing it. But I ask that you keep in mind that to some women, it may seem patronizing. I'm not saying that they are right, but neither of us know the circumstances that led them to feel that way. That's about them, not you, and you shouldn't take it personally.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Overall I agree with your thoughtful post, but I have to push back a little bit on the notion of the severity of "cancel culture. It's largely a myth. Who got cancelled? Kanye? Louis CK? Mel Gibson? The controversies they were involved in were only stutter steps in their careers. And in the working world, in the US at least, the situation has been reversed, with women and people of color being subjected to increased scrutiny based on the notion that any advancement they make is due to "DEI".

I was mostly referring to ordinary people. Couldn't care less about what happens to celebrities. I am even unfamiliar with those particular cases.
But again, while we likely disagree on the severity of the issue, we do agree that the issue exists? The only reason I bring this up is this very thread. You can see labels and name-calling being thrown everywhere. I've practically been named Andrew Tate over my post.

I see that kind of labeling as more detrimental to AH than any individual opinion here. It creates a bullying atmosphere, and it kills any notion of a reasonable discussion. It's hardly the first time this has happened. And the lack of any reaction from long-time denizens means that it will only get worse.

Sadly, there are also a few old AH members who are role models for this kind of behavior, so it doesn't really surprise me.

 

[MelissaBaby]

Kumbaya, bitches.

 

[MelissaBaby]

I was mostly referring to ordinary people. Couldn't care less about what happens to celebrities. I am even unfamiliar with those particular cases.
But again, while we likely disagree on the severity of the issue, we do agree that the issue exists? The only reason I bring this up is this very thread. You can see labels and name-calling being thrown everywhere. I've practically been named Andrew Tate over my post.

I see that kind of labeling as more detrimental to AH than any individual opinion here. It creates a bullying atmosphere, and it kills any notion of a reasonable discussion. It's hardly the first time this has happened. And the lack of any reaction from long-time denizens means that it will only get worse.

Sadly, there are also a few old AH members who are role models for this kind of behavior, so it doesn't really surprise me.

We generally agree. What we need is more acknowledgement of poor behavior on the one hand, and more willing forgiveness on the other.

 

[SimonDoom]

In my only semi-informed opinion, the three main causes of significant change in birth rates are economics, economics and economics.

If you believe this(i agree with you, mostly), then I am surprised at your disparagement of the "West." The West looks bad except when you compare it to everything else. Western science, technology, political liberalism, and economics are responsible for the extraordinary improvement in the standard of living for people generally in the last 200 years and for women in particular. The doctrine of consent being advanced in this thread is a product of the West.

 

[sanfran81]

It is a nice gesture and I don't think you should stop doing it. But I ask that you keep in mind that to some women, it may seem patronizing. I'm not saying that they are right, but neither of us know the circumstances that led them to feel that way. That's about them, not you, and you shouldn't take it personally.

yea, it's either i think someone will be offended & i don't do it at all.
or i continue to do it because it's a nice gesture.

it will be interesting if one day a woman (or man) tells me "you don't need to open the door for me, i can do that myself" .... at which point i apologize to that particular individual and there is that.

admittedly, i will be confused.
especially if it's a total stranger.

 

[iwatchus]

I am getting to the age where people open the door for me because they think I am decrepit, which can get annoying. Of course, until my knee surgery, I am somewhat decrepit. I just don't want everyone else thinking that.

 

[MelissaBaby]

If you believe this(i agree with you, mostly), then I am surprised at your disparagement of the "West." The West looks bad except when you compare it to everything else. Western science, technology, political liberalism, and economics are responsible for the extraordinary improvement in the standard of living for people generally in the last 200 years and for women in particular. The doctrine of consent being advanced in this thread is a product of the West.

Dude, I just tossed a rather obvious lay up joke.

 

[ToPleaseHim]

Indeed.

And now take this approach, scale it up to every man and iterate over the generations. What do you get? A dwindling population, perhaps, which is exactly what we currently see in the West?

(To be clear, this is not a question to you specifically; I'm merely trying to clarify my point that was widely misinterpreted that somehow being "pro-rape" because @MelissaBaby asked me to).

Your comment was absolutely pro-rape. Suggesting that modern consent standards (which should have been in place for centuries) would lead to the extinction of humankind is suggesting that we need rape for our species to continue. Your comment wasn’t misconstrued.

Other factors contributing to declining birth rates in the west:

1. Birth control
2. Women don’t HAVE to get (or stay) married
3. Women can thrive financially without being dependent on a man
4. The COST of pregnancy, childbirth, and raising a child is a deterrent. Most families need two incomes to get by and daycare is outrageous, especially the quality of daycare where we would want our kids to spend their days.
5. Gens Y, Z, and A have seen numerous “once in a lifetime” horrific events. They don’t have much hope for the future and are apprehensive about bringing children into the world.

 

[lovecraft68]

Your comment was absolutely pro-rape. Suggesting that modern consent standards (which should have been in place for centuries) would lead to the extinction of humankind is suggesting that we need rape for our species to continue. Your comment wasn’t misconstrued.

Other factors contributing to declining birth rates in the west:

1. Birth control
2. Women don’t HAVE to get (or stay) married
3. Women can thrive financially without being dependent on a man
4. The COST of pregnancy, childbirth, and raising a child is a deterrent. Most families need two incomes to get by and daycare is outrageous, especially the quality of daycare where we would want our kids to spend their days.
5. Gens Y, Z, and A have seen numerous “once in a lifetime” horrific events. They don’t have much hope for the future and are apprehensive about bringing children into the world.

All very good points but one you left out that I wasn't being sarcastic in my earlier post is what passes for "men" these days is not conducive to thinking they could be husband material, let alone a father. That and 'men' of all ages are running around crying victim that women don't want to date anymore and call it 'toxic femininity' which is weak male speak for "They don't need no man" so wahhh

Reality is, they don't need no little boys and that's a lot of what's out there and its not limited to Gen Z.

Something else is that I think younger women may be tired of the "we're supposed to" when it comes to children and I think that applies to young men as well.

This ideal-and not all, but much of it is religion based, that a young woman or man is worth less if they're not parents is tiresome bullshit. You're no less a woman or man because you don't want to reproduce.

Lot of factors, and being a long time nihilist I am on board with the why would you bring kids into this shit world. I look at my grandkids and can't imagine what's coming for them.

Last point in my ramble, I agree that the remark in question could be construed as pro-rape. Women must breed, Handsmaid tale and all that.

 

[FrancesScott]

Gens Y, Z, and A have seen numerous “once in a lifetime” horrific events. They don’t have much hope for the future and are apprehensive about bringing children into the world.

I’ve seen this reported elsewhere and actually looked at the studies. I guess generations that lived through world wars might scoff. But younger people seem more depressed and fatalistic than older.

The studies have pinpointed:

1. The cost of housing - inability to purchase a property
2. There is no lack of jobs - if you want to work for Amazon - but good jobs paying a living wage are harder to come by
3. A feeling that older generations have messed up the planet, done nothing to rectify their mistakes, and left it all to their children and grandchildren to sort out
4. Wealth distribution has become laughably skewed it’s not about the top 1% anymore it’s the top 0.001% - and property price increases and tax cuts for the wealthy have moved money from young people to old people at an unprecedented rate

I’m merely reporting what surveys have said. You can challenge some elements of the above.

What does come across is younger people feel hopeless and powerless. They are much more likely to say that the future will be worse than previous generations at their age. They are much more likely to say life is pointless.

As to actual reasons, well people will bring their own world views to that question. But younger people are really not very happy at present.

 

[iwatchus]

There was a dip in the birth rate during the depression, which is the last time in the US that a generation was worse off than its parents. We also had a dip in the 70's, when women became much more independent financially and birth control became widely available. Both were more dramatic drops than we are seeing now. But both started from much higher initial birth rates.

 

[Levorotatory]

That the planet is, and I quote, “fucking dying,” presumably because future generations will have spend 1-2% of total GDP growth between now and 2125 to mitigate the effects of climate change.

That is awfully optimistic, and it isn't just climate change. Humans are consuming many resources at unsustainable rates.

That today is just the absolute worst time to have kids, despite being objectively the most prosperous time in human history.

It has also takes much longer for children to become net contributors. In pre-industrial times that happened by age 10-12. Now it is often 25 or older. Children have never been more expensive.

That individual consent is the highest moral virtue, overriding any other concern.

Why shouldn't it be?

These beliefs all have expiration date. They fade and vanish, gradually, as those who profess voluntarily opt out of having offspring and thus propagating those values to them, precisely because of said beliefs.

It’s just evolution in action: some memes simply fail to reproduce. But that’s okay, they weren’t fit to survive anyway.

Excessive reproduction is also maladaptive. Species that exceed their carrying capacity experience population crashes, and we humans are well past ours.