Am I really the only person who finds

[H. Jekyll]

I didn't mean to imply there's any particular change in social norms regarding rape. Moreover, that would be an additional comment in line my thoughts.

There's also the fact that Literotica specifically requires that rape victims in its stories get sexual gratification from their victimhood. Here are the words from the FAQ:

"...we DO NOT publish works of any type featuring the following content: ... Ravishment/non-consent fantasies in which the “victim” receives no thrill or enjoyment from the acts, or is seriously and/or permanently physically harmed/abused/maimed/killed."

This has been discussed in forums before. I imagine it means Lit doesn't want to publish stories with realistic rapes, but that's not what it says! Yes. It's is almost as though Lit is begging the writer to have the victim think "Why am I getting so hot? Why am I enjoying this so much? Why am I falling in love?" Yeah, just try to write something more lifelike and watch moderation quash your story.

 

[GoodnessO]

There's also the fact that Literotica specifically requires that rape victims in its stories get sexual gratification from their victimhood. Here are the words from the FAQ:

"...we DO NOT publish works of any type featuring the following content: ... Ravishment/non-consent fantasies in which the “victim” receives no thrill or enjoyment from the acts, or is seriously and/or permanently physically harmed/abused/maimed/killed."

This has been discussed in forums before. I imagine it means Lit doesn't want to publish stories with realistic rapes, but that's not what it says! Yes. It's is almost as though Lit is begging the writer to have the victim think "Why am I getting so hot? Why am I enjoying this so much? Why am I falling in love?" Yeah, just try to write something more lifelike and watch moderation quash your story.

Yes, I'm aware of that Lit policy. But I don't think of more realistic rape stories as being a good solution. Either way, my point is, in what universe is nonconsent/rape accepted as a kink? What other nonconsensual violence do people here consider to be kinky, rather than assault?

 

[H. Jekyll]

Yes, I'm aware of that Lit policy. But I don't think of more realistic rape stories as being a good solution. Either way, my point is, in what universe is nonconsent/rape accepted as a kink? What other nonconsensual violence do people here consider to be kinky, rather than assault?

Abstract, literary, imaginary ... or real? I'm old. Back in the day -- say, up to the early 2000s -- sex stories were posted on newsgroups, and there were /no/ limits to the writers' imaginations (I posted a now /very/ out-of-date essay about that, here at Lit). Literotica today is so /very/ tame in comparison. There were sweet romantic stories. But at the other extreme you could find pedo-torture-scat-snuff stories. Yes. Really. We'd discuss the issue. Two points led the discussion. First, no actual person was hurt in any story. Second, the evidence showed that in countries with the most wide-open porn, sexual crimes were reduced.

I'd say that nonconsent/rape as role playing is not only acceptable, it is engaged in by many couples. As /fantasy/, it is legion. Whether it /should/ be? I don't think you and I could ever change each others' mind.

 

[Melody_Lightdraft2]

Certainly in the UK it has been illegal to write stories about rape since 1959, at the present time fictional stories are allowed provided the characters are over 18, however this may change in the future along with making downloading even fictional stories illegal.
Rape is insidious, not only the violent violation but the damage it does to the victims mental health.

 

[WCSGarland]

What I find ironic is the commenters that complain about non-consent category and then also turn around and would remove (without consent, of course) the non-con category from the people who do enjoy it.

 

[H. Jekyll]

What I find ironic is the commenters that complain about non-consent category and then also turn around and would remove (without consent, of course) the non-con category from the people who do enjoy it.

Hmmm. Apples and grapefruit. I admit to liking a good non-con scene, which can be awfully hot. I could even like a scene where the vic gets absolutely turned on, I guess. But ... non-con about your body is different from non-con about the imagination. They're different baskets of fruit.

 

[WCSGarland]

Hmmm. Apples and grapefruit. I admit to liking a good non-con scene, which can be awfully hot. I could even like a scene where the vic gets absolutely turned on, I guess. But ... non-con about your body is different from non-con about the imagination. They're different baskets of fruit.

I agree. Mind control is a different variety of non-con compared to physical non-con, and restrictions on category to my mind are the mind control variety of non-con. For me, mind control is a kink too far, but I don't suggest that the mind control category should be removed.

 

[WCSGarland]

I do not write or read NC, or rape stories ( call it what is is, polite euphemisms irritate me), but is it possible these tropes are used over and over again because of the restrictions in place for such stories? This is not sarcasm but a legit question.

You may consider it a euphemism, but non-consent covers a fair amount of ground without actually approaching a physical rape. I understand that people may not be comfortable exploring this topic. And my wife is one of those, but consider this... arranged marriages fall within the non-consent purview. Any action that is coerced can be considered non-consent, whether or not it involves physical sex.

 

[VamPal1]

All I know is there is nothing more demoralizing or self-hating than experiencing an unwanted orgasm while being raped.

 

[WCSGarland]

All I know is there is nothing more demoralizing or self-hating than experiencing an unwanted orgasm while being raped.

I believe you. But by the same token, I occasionally find myself compelled to write about experiencing something like that. The raw emotions of it might be triggering to some, but I'm trying to empathize with people who have experienced it.

 

[AlinaX]

Scenario:

You are facing a closed door. Beyond is a foul creature who has stolen your family’s most precious treasure. The creature is sleeping now, and this is your one chance to reclaim what was stolen. However, there is a chance the creature will awaken, and if it does, it will have its way with you. By all accounts, its victims experience both pleasure and humiliation.

Do you open the door? And if so, are you consenting in advance to what might happen?

 

[WCSGarland]

Scenario:

You are facing a closed door. Beyond is a foul creature who has stolen your family’s most precious treasure. The creature is sleeping now, and this is your one chance to reclaim what was stolen. However, there is a chance the creature will awaken, and if it does, it will have its way with you. By all accounts, its victims experience both pleasure and humiliation.

Do you open the door? And if so, are you consenting in advance to what might happen?

I think your scenario kind of deserves a thread of its own.

 

[Cagivagurl]

Literally the next story I read just now, because it appeared in the 'random stories' section of the NC/R page, was 'No, Ricky!' by xPinkxStarsx.

After a family friend ties our protagonist to a bed to assault her it's a few short paragraphs before:

"His tongue flicked against my clit and his fingers ran deep into my pussy. My body was starting to defy me and my pussy got wet. 'What the hell is going on?' I thought to myself, 'How can I be enjoying this?' I was though, no one had ever taken me like this and it felt so good."

Couple of paragraphs later:

"His dick filled me up completely and it just felt so good to be filled like that. "Ricky, fuck me harder!""

And a couple after that, this is how the story ends:

"I turned to him and told him "Next time, your cumming in my mouth." I could see his smile even in the dark."

I can't be the only one suspecting that nine out of ten of the women writing these stories... aren't? But whatever.

I don't know, I like absurd narratives and I'm not being censorious about the boundaries of acceptable fantasy, but it's so often exactly the same absurd narrative, over and over, where women are just instantly malleable in these very specific ways, over and over...

I can guarantee, that story was not written by a woman...
IMO

Cagivagurl

 

[H. Jekyll]

I can guarantee, that story was not written by a woman...
IMO

Cagivagurl

Of course not. A woman would never use "your" for "you're." Just kidding (maybe).

Yeah, the story was clearly written by a guy, and frankly a guy who borrowed a lot of it from any number (choose a number from 100 to 10,000...) of similar stories. There is morally reprehensible writing, unbelievable writing, and -- then -- simply bad writing. This story could be going for the trifecta.

Unless. Unless, the story was written by someone who has followed this thread and wants to jerk some chains. I guess that could be it.

 

[GoodnessO]

Scenario:

You are facing a closed door. Beyond is a foul creature who has stolen your family’s most precious treasure. The creature is sleeping now, and this is your one chance to reclaim what was stolen. However, there is a chance the creature will awaken, and if it does, it will have its way with you. By all accounts, its victims experience both pleasure and humiliation.

Do you open the door? And if so, are you consenting in advance to what might happen?

No it's not consent. I think that's a ridiculous question.

 

[AlinaX]

That's a ridiculous answer. If you choose to act, knowing the potential consequences of the act, how is that not consent? You can certainly argue the decision to act is foolish, and you can argue that the creature is dangerous and should be contained in a way that neutralises the threat it poses, but ultimately you are aware that if you open the door and enter the room, there is a not insignificant chance that you will be used sexually, and that you will likely experience multiple orgasms no matter how you try to deny it.

 

[GoodnessO]

That's a ridiculous answer. If you choose to act, knowing the potential consequences of the act, how is that not consent? You can certainly argue the decision to act is foolish, and you can argue that the creature is dangerous and should be contained in a way that neutralises the threat it poses, but ultimately you are aware that if you open the door and enter the room, there is a not insignificant chance that you will be used sexually, and that you will likely experience multiple orgasms no matter how you try to deny it.

You're speaking about fiction, not even a realistic situation. Regardless, just because someone puts themselves in potential harms way, doesn't equal consent to be assaulted.
Let's see, a similar situation. Perhaps a soldier in war. Has the soldier consented to be killed, or mamed, because they are there? I don't think so. The soldier is certainly not consenting to allow the enemy to kill them. But the soldier might be consenting to allow their commander to put them in harms way... if the soldier is there of their own free will.

 

[ClockworkFox]

Well, it's been six months, but I'm only noticing this now. I must confess I'd never heard of ENF, and not really sure how it works. But if you're embarrassed about being caught in the shower like that, Miss Saxon, oops, I'd get the lock fixed. Or even get a lock put on it. ...

Oh, I see, you LIKE being caught in the shower like that. Jesus, then just have the door taken off altogether, Miss Saxon, surely. ... No, no, that kind of ruins the accidental, fortuitous and infelicitous side of it, I see, right. Best just to leave the door ajar, really, and hope for the best, or the worst, even, and then anyone at all can come breezing in, plucked from a vivid imagination - an old aunt or uncle staying for the weekend / the neighbours' ten-year-old / the vicar / Jehovah's Witnesses / the plumber / Ryan Gosling / Donald and/or Melania Trump ..., saying, "Now, where on earth did I leave that towel, I'll be damned if I ... oh God, oh no, I'm so .... phwooar, fuck, I mean, I'm sorry ..." etc. etc. etc.

 

[AlinaX]

If you turn that creature into a human male is that consent? Putting yourself in a situation where assault may happen, in an effort to neutralize a danger is definitely not consenting to the assault, I don't think.

Okay, let's make him human.

The local mobster has stolen the necklace your mother gave you. The police will do nothing. You know this. The police have done nothing about any of his crimes. Your friend has warned you not to go into his house, because while he kills men, he takes a vicious delight in fucking women and making them come.

If you go into his house, either you are in denial of reality, letting hope win out over good sense, or you are consenting in advance to an ugly possibility. This does not mean you're actively consenting to sexual assault, but it does make the assault an outcome you are prepared for.

Similarly, a soldier does not march to war expecting to be killed, but he does accept the risk of death in return for accepting the King's shilling.

In all three cases, you know in advance there may be a point where the idea of active consent becomes meaningless. The real point of consent, therefore, is in accepting or not the risk.

 

[calmlikeabomb]

Here is a thought exercise. What if it was the opposite?

"Oh no!" Kathy thought. "My body is betraying me! Here is the perfect femboy lovingly worshipping my toes and clit, and for the life of me, I can't get wet! He is all I have ever wanted! 5'4" in his heels with piercings, calling me Goddess K, making me tea every morning, and for the life of me, I can't get wet when he tongues my toes! Oh lawd!!! Woe is me!"


Jokes aside, I acknowledge it's an infuriatingly complex topic, but I wonder if there is even a correct answer? I've Larped a few consensual non consent plays, and what's easier and consensual in life might be hard to translate onto the page.

I've also been day drinking so nothing matters anyway.

 

[calmlikeabomb]

Certainly in the UK it has been illegal to write stories about rape since 1959, at the present time fictional stories are allowed provided the characters are over 18, however this may change in the future along with making downloading even fictional stories illegal.
Rape is insidious, not only the violent violation but the damage it does to the victims mental health.

Well said!

 

[calmlikeabomb]

Well, it's been six months, but I'm only noticing this now. I must confess I'd never heard of ENF, and not really sure how it works. But if you're embarrassed about being caught in the shower like that, Miss Saxon, oops, I'd get the lock fixed. Or even get a lock put on it. ...

Oh, I see, you LIKE being caught in the shower like that. Jesus, then just have the door taken off altogether, Miss Saxon, surely. ... No, no, that kind of ruins the accidental, fortuitous and infelicitous side of it, I see, right. Best just to leave the door ajar, really, and hope for the best, or the worst, even, and then anyone at all can come breezing in, plucked from a vivid imagination - an old aunt or uncle staying for the weekend / the neighbours' ten-year-old / the vicar / Jehovah's Witnesses / the plumber / Ryan Gosling / Donald and/or Melania Trump ..., saying, "Now, where on earth did I leave that towel, I'll be damned if I ... oh God, oh no, I'm so .... phwooar, fuck, I mean, I'm sorry ..." etc. etc. etc.

Thank you for your POV. All I can say in return is that people are complex. One my subs found power in taking a shower and putting her make up back on after I was done with her. And while I was the dom and she was the sub, the reality was that I was the Bottom and she was the Top. She is an amazing woman who chose to deal with her frustrations in a certain way, and came out the other side like sunshine after rain.

 

[ClockworkFox]

Thank you for your POV. All I can say in return is that people are complex. One my subs found power in taking a shower and putting her make up back on after I was done with her. And while I was the dom and she was the sub, the reality was that I was the Bottom and she was the Top. She is an amazing woman who chose to deal with her frustrations in a certain way, and came out the other side like sunshine after rain.

Finger slipped here, and I hit reply before thinking about it too much, but now I'm buggered if I can recollect what I was going to say ...

 

[calmlikeabomb]

Finger slipped here, and I hit reply before thinking about it too much, but now I'm buggered if I can recollect what I was going to say ...

Have you considered drugs?

 

[ClockworkFox]

I've considered stopping them.