Will We strike Fordo? Update: We did

[Saint_Ann]

Our President is Netanyahu's cuck.

How does that work? We get what we want without getting our hands dirty. Sure, Bebe is using our clout to keep others from joining in.

 

[ll74]

How does that work? We get what we want without getting our hands dirty. Sure, Bebe is using our clout to keep others from joining in.

Netanyahu does what he wants and Trump says "thank you sir"

Similar to Putin

 

[Saint_Ann]

Netanyahu does what he wants and Trump says "thank you sir"

Similar to Putin

Win/win.

 

[Politruk]

Basically, TACO is out of his depth, blustering again, and afraid to get off the fence because Iran more than likely has assets inside the USA.

I doubt they have any sleeper cells the FBI doesn't know about. There are not enough Iranian-Americans that they can disappear in a crowd.

 

[ChloeTzang]

My question was why the US should bomb today? Are you sure all the intelligence needed to execute the mission is in and verified. Are you certain all the military assets are in place at this moment? Are you certain that it would not be better to wait until Iran has depleted is missile stocks further? Are you certain about Israel’s timing preference? Have embassies and military bases been fully prepared?

Those are just a few of the relevant questions you haven’t even thought about.

Oh yes, good points. Totally agree.

 

[ll74]

Win/win.

Yes, Trump being a weak President is helpful.

 

[dmallord]

There may be operations underway on the ground to improve our ability to accurately target the installation. Israel is known to have special forces operating inside Iran; it's entirely possible U.S. assets are there as well, conducting surveillance to identify critical features like ventilation shafts, access points, or structural weak spots. If President Trump decides to authorize a strike, it’s clear he would want to minimize the risk of failure. Given the depth and fortification of the Fordow facility, it may ultimately require a coordinated ground component, either to guide precision munitions or to carry out a direct sabotage mission.

I've considered similar structural issues, though I don't have any background in building bomb-proof structures. They are like an anthill in design.

As you note, there must be a main egress point, ventilation systems, and, like anthills, back exits to fall back on when the lawnmower runs over your hill. All that depth is designed to ward off first-strike capabilities. That seems to be the strategy in one-upsmanship. I build a better bunker, then you build a better bunker buster, and then I go at it again. Iran has built that deepest level in the hopes of not being the anthill getting run over by the mower. America presumably has the next weapon in its destruction.

But, are bunker busters necessary if you can secure the site and entomb the ant mound so getting in or out is no longer possible? It seems it can be done with less destructive power than a MOAB. Seal the entrances and ventilation shafts as you note and prevent facility use. Effectively creating an interior akin to the one in the book Level 7?

 

[Baztrachian]

I would suspect the end game here is regime change, to spark and internal overthrow of the mullahs - and there was a buf left wing revolutionary movement that did fight an undergound war against the regime for a few years, and god knows there's a big anti-mullah mass of people out there in Iran's cities. The problem is the mullah's mass of support was from the countryside and the villages, from what I read, and the Islamic guards are the ones with the guns.... regime change is going to be hard to achieve, and Trump keeps talking about negotiating rather than wiping out the ruling regime.

And as Alex points out, all this establishs is that smaller countries NEED nukes to defend themselves against major powers. North Korea and Ukraine, and now Iran, prove that in spades. What Trump has really done with Iran, and with his backstabbing of Ukraine, is to guarantee nuclear proliferation. MOst western countries did not go nuke because they sheltered behind the USA's nuclear shield. Trump has stripped the certainty about that away - and by stripping support from Ukraine, he is guaranteeing that any country that feels threatened by a major power is going to go nuke.

Poland. Ukraine. Turkey. Finland. Taiwan. Vietnam. South Korea. Even Japan. Possibly Australia. That's really all this is achieving in the end. An Iranian regime chage would be a bonus, but even with that, Iram will probably develop nukes in the end regardless.

Good analysis. Very even handed and fair, too.

 

[Politruk]

At the moment, Iranians are in the streets demonstrating against Israel -- so regime change is probably improbable.

 

[Lazaran]

Oh yes, good points. Totally agree.

Except NOT good points.

Every day dithering dotard DonOld delays a MOP strike on Fordo is another day for Iran (with Chinese & Russian assistance) to prepare some countermeasures to an attack by a B-2 delivered MOP on the target.

Iran was / is reeling AT THIS MOMENT (and even more so a day or two ago when the Iranian military was initially decapitated).

A quick strike on Fordo while Iran was TOTALLY reeling would have been PERFECT timing.

NOW China has ALREADY flown
several MASSIVE plane loads of SOMETHING (advanced air defense systems???) into Iran, so it would be foolish to wait until any Chinese or Russian supplied advanced air defense system is operational.

THE WINDOW IS RAPIDLY CLOSING for an optimally safe and effective / successful strike on Fordo; full stop.



Hope that ^ helps.





We. Told. Them. So.

 

[DeluxAuto]

Trump is too much of a pussy to make decisions that are good for the United States. He is terrified to piss off the wrong team so our team suffers.

 

[Saint_Ann]

Yes, Trump being a weak President is helpful.

Has he bowed to him yet?

 

[ll74]

Has he bowed to him yet?

dear leader doesn't bow. He pretends to win

 

[Lazaran]

 

[Saint_Ann]

Trump is too much of a pussy to make decisions that are good for the United States. He is terrified to piss off the wrong team so our team suffers.

Are you suffering Luke?

 

[ChloeTzang]

NOW China has ALREADY flown
several MASSIVE plane loads of SOMETHING (advanced air defense systems???) into Iran, so it would be foolish to wait until any Chinese or Russian supplied advanced air defense system is operational.

THE WINDOW IS RAPIDLY CLOSING for an optimally safe and effective / successful strike on Fordo; full stop.

It would certainly make sense for the Chinese to test their air defense systems against Israel - the IAF is as good as the USA, or better even, and it'd be a good test run for the Chinese to see how good their technology is. Of course it would be Chinese personnel - no way in hell the Iranians would have time to train. And they would have to set it up fast. And the longer TACO dithers, the more risk there is of the Chinese doing smething like that. They sure don't wnt Iran to go down - and something like this would cement Iran as a Chinese ally.

Or it could be something completely different.

There are opportunities here. Russian's arms export business has been tanked by Ukraine and this - the Iranians had the most advanced Russian stuff and they didn't even see the IAF. If Chinese technology works better, there's some sales opportunities there for sure....altho maybe not to India LOL.

Interesting isn't it. I wait with bated breath.

 

[Baztrachian]

There are opportunities here. Russian's arms export business has been tanked by Ukraine and this - the Iranians had the most advanced Russian stuff and they didn't even see the IAF. If Chinese technology works better, there's some sales opportunities there for sure....altho maybe not to India LOL.

While the Russian radar and defense gear is not up to countering the IAF part of the problem is also a lack of training and discipline for the Iranian system operators and their ignorant commanders. At the first sign of danger these morons lit up everything and gave the Israeli anti-defense teams plenty of valid targets to service.

The Iranians panicked and now their foolishness has left them blind and defenseless to future attacks. I can't blame that on the Russians because they do practice discipline with their air defenses.

The Chinese technology is frankly not as good or as reliable as the Russian gear. This is for a number of reasons. The Chinese and the rampant corruption of their Communist Party had led to all sorts of failures in their purportedly 'high tech' defense sector. The regime has problems implementing advancements if those advancements clash with Party orthodoxies.

China can make tons of low tech military vehicles and they can probably excel at drones but if China itself is attacked they're going to look a lot more like Iran and less like Russia.

 

[Politruk]

Trump gives Iran ‘ultimate ultimatum’ as US mulls strikes

ULTIMATUM, n. In diplomacy, a last demand before resorting to concessions.

Having received an ultimatum from Austria, the Turkish Ministry met to consider it.

"O servant of the Prophet," said the Sheik of the Imperial Chibouk to the Mamoosh of the Invincible Army, "how many unconquerable soldiers have we in arms?"

"Upholder of the Faith," that dignitary replied after examining his memoranda, "they are in numbers as the leaves of the forest!"

"And how many impenetrable battleships strike terror to the hearts of all Christian swine?" he asked the Imaum of the Ever Victorious Navy.

"Uncle of the Full Moon," was the reply, "deign to know that they are as the waves of the ocean, the sands of the desert and the stars of Heaven!"

For eight hours the broad brow of the Sheik of the Imperial Chibouk was corrugated with evidences of deep thought: he was calculating the chances of war. Then, "Sons of angels," he said, "the die is cast! I shall suggest to the Ulema of the Imperial Ear that he advise inaction. In the name of Allah, the council is adjourned."

-- Ambrose Bierce

 

[Lazaran]

It would certainly make sense for the Chinese to test their air defense systems against Israel - the IAF is as good as the USA, or better even, and it'd be a good test run for the Chinese to see how good their technology is. Of course it would be Chinese personnel - no way in hell the Iranians would have time to train. And they would have to set it up fast. And the longer TACO dithers, the more risk there is of the Chinese doing smething like that. They sure don't wnt Iran to go down - and something like this would cement Iran as a Chinese ally.

Or it could be something completely different.

There are opportunities here. Russian's arms export business has been tanked by Ukraine and this - the Iranians had the most advanced Russian stuff and they didn't even see the IAF. If Chinese technology works better, there's some sales opportunities there for sure....altho maybe not to India LOL.

Interesting isn't it. I wait with bated breath.

Bottom line:

"Two weeks" may give Iran just enough time to harden Fordo by stationing some advanced (and unknown) stealth aircraft detecting SAM system provided by the Chinese. It may not work, and it may not even be a real threat, but if it does / is…







We. Told. Them. So.

 

[ChloeTzang]

And it seems Iran is opting for "Strategic Patience".

That and they have been tweaking their missiles, making Iron Dome less effective. Not a short war, in other words.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/worl...S&cvid=e8f1b1764fef4a5aaedd253dc19883e9&ei=21

 

[icanhelp1]

Two questions

1. Will we take action?

No, not for two weeks, I believe the Israelis can take care of business within that timeframe.

2. Should we take action?

No. We don’t need to be in a land war with Iran. All we need to do is provide military support and let Israel take care of business. If Iran attacks our bases then all bets are off. One thing the US could do is mine Iranian ports. IMHO

 

[rainsol]

Source for context

https://abcnews-go-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/bombing-irans-underground-fordo-nuclear-plant-effective-expert/story?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&id=123013773&usqp=mq331AQIUAKwASCAAgM=#amp_tf=From %1$s&aoh=17504194332620&referrer=https://www.google.com&ampshare=https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bombing-irans-underground-fordo-nuclear-plant-effective-expert/story?id=123013773

If you believe ABC your a fool..

 

[rainsol]

Netanyahu does what he wants and Trump says "thank you sir"

Similar to Putin

So you are in the room with the president and reporting back to us? ROFLAO!!!!!

 

[Politruk]

If you believe ABC your a fool..

Better ABC than Fox.

 

[icanhelp1]

The prime minister of Israel is in control of Israel’s war against Iran. The president of the US is commander in chief of the US military. Incredible how naive you and 1174 are!

Trump has isolated the war to just between them. Our military assets are making sure no other country interferes.