The Epstein story is really horrible and disturbing.

[Politruk]

If the rich and powerful can't make use of underage prostitutes and get away with it, what hope is there for the rest of us?!

 

[YDB95]

You've just summed up the Trump cult remarkably well. They love him because he acts like they would if they had money.

 

[Lazaran]

There are no underage prostitutes, only victims of sex-trafficking.

And it isn’t something to make light of.

 

[Politruk]

[Discussions promoting and/or accusations involving under-18-year-old sexuality prohibited per our forum guidelines.]

 

[Politruk]

[Discussions promoting and/or accusations involving under-18-year-old sexuality prohibited per our forum guidelines.]

 

[Sean Renaud]

There are no underage prostitutes, only victims of sex-trafficking.

And it isn’t something to make light of.

There most definitely are underage prostitutes and victims of sex-trafficking and until/unless we are going to set universal laws a disgusting amount of overlap.

 

[Noor]

There most definitely are underage prostitutes and victims of sex-trafficking and until/unless we are going to set universal laws a disgusting amount of overlap.

Both male and female

 

[Lazaran]

There most definitely are underage prostitutes and victims of sex-trafficking and until/unless we are going to set universal laws a disgusting amount of overlap.

WHOOOOOOSH

 

[Celand]

I would charge the girls parents..... Hmmm: At 16, she goes on 2 week trip.Then comes back with Hermes bag, Cartier jewellery, dressed up to the hilt by Prada, with a few pairs of Laboutin or Feragamo shoes and a wad of cash and the parents believe she got that all from a modelling job ? This is either a parental neglect or it should be " normal" a.k.a. Chuck Berry's " Sweet little sixteen" .....

 

[YDB95]

I would charge the girls parents..... Hmmm: At 16, she goes on 2 week trip.Then comes back with Hermes bag, Cartier jewellery, dressed up to the hilt by Prada, with a few pairs of Laboutin or Feragamo shoes and a wad of cash and the parents believe she got that all from a modelling job ? This is either a parental neglect or it should be " normal" a.k.a. Chuck Berry's " Sweet little sixteen" .....

Her father worked at Mar-A-Lago and got her a job there. 'Nuff said.

 

[Politruk]

I would charge the girls parents..... Hmmm: At 16, she goes on 2 week trip.Then comes back with Hermes bag, Cartier jewellery, dressed up to the hilt by Prada, with a few pairs of Laboutin or Feragamo shoes and a wad of cash and the parents believe she got that all from a modelling job ? This is either a parental neglect or it should be " normal" a.k.a. Chuck Berry's " Sweet little sixteen" .....

Parents? I expect in most cases Epstein's girls were orphans or ran away from home or were abducted.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Parents? I expect in most cases Epstein's girls were orphans or ran away from home or were abducted.

It was mostly Maxwell who convinced girls to go to Epstein's. None of them were abducted or orphans or runaways -

It seems to have been thru social contacts and things like music camps where Epstein was a sponor and stuff like that. They took girls from very underprivileged families, gave them luxury accommodation, and things like flighst on private planes that girls that age could only ever drwam about as well as paying them - basically lured them in with luxury and money and to a certain extent if you were from an abusive background, security on Epstein's island or wherever, and he quite often sponsored or support them in getting into things like modeling or schools they could never have gotten into on their own. Hard to resist the lure if you're some young girl from a poor family.... and they were asked to bring friends and paid extra if they did - plenty of girls would go for an arrangement like that, and obviously plenty did.

Restrospectively, you can say that give the ages of the girls and the power imbalance, a lot of it was likely non-consensual, but none of them ever had any problems walking away of they chose too. Money and luxury is a powerful lure....

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/documents-jeffrey-epstein-case-released-rcna132236

 

[Politruk]

It seems to have been thru social contacts and things like music camps where Epstein was a sponor and stuff like that.

[insert your own American Pie joke here]

 

[Politruk]

It was mostly Maxwell who convinced girls to go to Epstein's. None of them were abducted or orphans or runaways -

It seems to have been thru social contacts and things like music camps where Epstein was a sponor and stuff like that. They took girls from very underprivileged families, gave them luxury accommodation, and things like flighst on private planes that girls that age could only ever drwam about as well as paying them - basically lured them in with luxury and money and to a certain extent if you were from an abusive background, security on Epstein's island or wherever, and he quite often sponsored or support them in getting into things like modeling or schools they could never have gotten into on their own. Hard to resist the lure if you're some young girl from a poor family.... and they were asked to bring friends and paid extra if they did - plenty of girls would go for an arrangement like that, and obviously plenty did.

Restrospectively, you can say that give the ages of the girls and the power imbalance, a lot of it was likely non-consensual, but none of them ever had any problems walking away of they chose too. Money and luxury is a powerful lure....

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/documents-jeffrey-epstein-case-released-rcna132236

Actually, it sounds like they're better off than if Epstein had left them alone.

 

[Craighalbert]

It's depressing. I get why everyone got into the more conspiracy side of things with Epstein - and don't get me wrong, there's definitely a lot to this story we don't know yet - but people's obsession which famous guy knew him here, and who was on his plane there meant his actual victims got kind of swept aside in all this, and they shouldn't have.

 

[Politruk]

It's depressing. I get why everyone got into the more conspiracy side of things with Epstein - and don't get me wrong, there's definitely a lot to this story we don't know yet - but people's obsession which famous guy knew him here, and who was on his plane there meant his actual victims got kind of swept aside in all this, and they shouldn't have.

What do you expect? People are interested in the conduct of public figures. The girls are nameless nobodies.

 

[Politruk]

The sexual attitudes of classical antiquity don't really map onto modern attitudes. Homosexuality between adults was considered ridiculous -- pederasty was the only socially acceptable same-sex relationship. This attitude persisted throughout antiquity -- I read in Gibbons' Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire that the Emperor Commodus (who appears as the villain in Gladiator) had a harem of 300 women "and as many boys." Not men -- boys. The thinking seems to have been that teenage boys. past puberty but too young to have a beard, are appropriate sex objects because they are beautiful in a way that fully grown men are not -- and I guess they are, if you can look past the acne.

In Greece (not in Rome), this form of homosexuality was at least in part a product of homosociality. Women of the citizen caste were kept locked up like Saudi Arabians. Apart from close relatives, the only free people a male ever saw were males.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Actually, it sounds like they're better off than if Epstein had left them alone.

Basically, he was an expert in honing in on the weaknesses and vulnerabilities of his targets, and his real targets were the 14-16 year old girls. He was a real piece of work, but the only real differentiator between him and a lot of other men was the sheer volume of girls......

"He would find out they have no home, no car, that they need a place to live, and he would provide a place to live." Think about that, and if you're a homeless and vulnerable teenage girl, how attractive that is all by itself. Especially if you've already been abused. Someone offers you somewhere safe to stay that's luxurious, looks after you, gives you money, etc etc etc and all they want is a little massage and sex - easy decision - and he's an authority figure who knows everyone - some you girl who's desperate would have a hard time saying no.

"He can get you to the best doctors. Sometimes he would do that and sometimes he wouldn't do that, but the promise was real because as soon as you walk into his house and see there are legitimate cooks, chefs and assistants, everybody catering to him — it gives this air of legitimacy. I mean, everybody in this whole entire mansion can't possibly be running an illegal sex trafficking operation, right?"

Virginia Giuffre, who was recruited by Epstein when she was 16 and stayed with him until she was 19, said that Epstein promised "to fix" anything that was wrong in their lives, offering to pay for their education and help them with their careers — and he demonstrated that he had the power to accomplish that.

 

[LLCox]

Oh look

[Discussions promoting and/or accusations involving under-18-year-old sexuality prohibited per our forum guidelines.]

 

[Politruk]

Basically, he was an expert in honing in on the weaknesses and vulnerabilities of his targets, and his real targets were the 14-16 year old girls. He was a real piece of work, but the only real differentiator between him and a lot of other men was the sheer volume of girls......

"He would find out they have no home, no car, that they need a place to live, and he would provide a place to live." Think about that, and if you're a homeless and vulnerable teenage girl, how attractive that is all by itself. Especially if you've already been abused. Someone offers you somewhere safe to stay that's luxurious, looks after you, gives you money, etc etc etc and all they want is a little massage and sex - easy decision - and he's an authority figure who knows everyone - some you girl who's desperate would have a hard time saying no.

"He can get you to the best doctors. Sometimes he would do that and sometimes he wouldn't do that, but the promise was real because as soon as you walk into his house and see there are legitimate cooks, chefs and assistants, everybody catering to him — it gives this air of legitimacy. I mean, everybody in this whole entire mansion can't possibly be running an illegal sex trafficking operation, right?"

Virginia Giuffre, who was recruited by Epstein when she was 16 and stayed with him until she was 19, said that Epstein promised "to fix" anything that was wrong in their lives, offering to pay for their education and help them with their careers — and he demonstrated that he had the power to accomplish that.

Like I said. They're better off than if Epstein had left them alone. Better to be a brothel whore living in luxury and safety than a common streetwalker, which is what most of them would have become.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Like I said. They're better off than if Epstein had left them alone. Better to be a brothel whore living in luxury and safety than a common streetwalker, which is what most of them would have become.

And what some of them, like Guiffre, basically were. Poor girl had a horrible childhood.

 

[RoryN]

Just read that Giuffre killed herself after a high-speed auto collision a few weeks earlier.

Might be apropos of nothing, but they should check for brain damage caused by the accident during her autopsy (if possible).

There will be a lot of speculation about her suicide, but it could actually be related to the accident itself.