The 2A was NOT intended as a bulwark against "tyranny"

[PintlerMan]

Yes it is, such idiotic posts, I come here for the laughs, because you guys are ill informed clowns who just make things up in your sad empty heads.

 

[Buffalogurl]

Buffy, there is NO assuming here on my behalf. I spent years designing these "stations". Just shut the fuck up on a subject you know nothing on, except what you read in some rightwing article trying to blame Biden for.....

Fuzzy, whether you "designed" these systems or not, whether Biden sent equipment to Ukraine or not, is not the case you fail to address the level of danger these fragile locations present.... no matter your deflection or denial once the grid goes "down" all bets are off...... you know it, the government knows, it and the terrorists/evil empires know it...... here's a question for you, in the event of a national event on the grid are you going to leave the safety of your compound in Canada to risk life and limb leaving your home extremely venerable to looting and destruction to go repair broken systems? Will other people in the trades do the same? For that matter will the local police even show up for work?
Please continue to underestimate my knowledge.... I don't care...... anyway enjoy the day

 

[Politruk]

Fuzzy, you're assuming multiple things.... one I wrote "full on grid down" situation....

Which none of us will ever live to see. There is a very short list of legitimate reasons to have privately owned firearms. Preparation for total social collapse, or civil war, or foreign invasion, or anything "survivalists" may have in mind, is not on that list.

 

[Politruk]

There is a very short list of legitimate reasons to have privately owned firearms.

1. Personal defense.
2. Hunting.
3. Target shooting as a hobby.
4. Gun collecting as a hobby.

And that's it. End of list. There is no fifth thing.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Personal defense is pretty broad.

 

[Politruk]

Personal defense is pretty broad.

But narrow enough to exclude anything political or insurrectionary.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Gun owners having done nothing to fight back against Donald Trump’s tyranny will make it a lot easier for us to ban guns after he’s out of power.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Good luck with that.

Gun owners having done nothing to fight back against Donald Trump’s tyranny will make it a lot easier for us to ban guns after he’s out of power.

 

[Politruk]

Gun owners having done nothing to fight back against Donald Trump’s tyranny will make it a lot easier for us to ban guns after he’s out of power.

That assumes there will ever be another election.

 

[Politruk]

Which none of us will ever live to see. There is a very short list of legitimate reasons to have privately owned firearms. Preparation for total social collapse, or civil war, or foreign invasion, or anything "survivalists" may have in mind, is not on that list.

Regarding survivalism:

One survivalist, Fernando "Ferfal" Aguirre, runs a blog called "Surviving in Argentina"[27] dedicated to his experiences with having lived in a developed country where a large-scale economic and societal collapse actually happened — Argentina, during that country's economic crisis in 2001-02 after the nation defaulted on its debt. His observations pointedly contradict many of the assumptions made by American survivalists:

• The logic of "bugging out" to a distant rural area to escape the chaos in the cities did not hold up in practice, as major cities like Buenos Aires and Cordoba were often the first places to see order and services restored. By contrast, rural survivalist compounds often found themselves outgunned and outnumbered by criminal gangs with nobody to help them for miles. Many such compounds were later discovered by the authorities looted and abandoned, sometimes with their would-be survivalist owners murdered.
• Government collapse is always temporary. By 2003, the crisis was over and Argentina's economy was booming again, partly as a result of the economic corrections triggered by the crisis.[note 5]
• Even at the height of the collapse, collective effort was often the most effective way for many working-class and former middle-class Argentineans to make a living, as demonstrated by the proliferation of worker-owned cooperatives.
• The rich, rather than being thrown from their lofty perch, got richer during and after the collapse — income inequality rose between 2001 and 2005, and at the height of the collapse the upper classes managed to defend their wealth by hiring armed private security.
• Likewise, the decadent pop culture and lifestyles that should have been swept away (according to American survivalists) were only reinforced. To give just one example, Argentinean TV studios and networks, reeling from the economic collapse, cut costs in any way they could and went for the cheapest programming they could find. Yup — the economic meltdown led to an explosive boom in trashy reality TV, and a similarly sharp decline in educational programming.

In short, total anarchy and a return to rural subsistence living failed to materialize even in the midst of a worst-case economic meltdown scenario.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Fuzzy, whether you "designed" these systems or not, whether Biden sent equipment to Ukraine or not,

So now comes your back peddle.

is not the case you fail to address the level of danger these fragile locations present.... no matter your deflection or denial once the grid goes "down" all bets are off......

The "Grid". What is the grid, do you have any fucking idea?

The best description is a joint set of electrical transmission systems. All governed by the same rules (NERC) With interconnections at boundaries. The "grid" is about the transmission of bulk energy. So in order for the "grid" to go down, all generators and transmission system need to fail. All at the same time. Then the local generation for peak loads and the local distribution systems they are connected to must go down. This peak generation also includes wind, solar and hydro......If the power isn't off in Ukraine, it's not going off in the USA.....

here's a question for you, in the event of a national event on the grid are you going to leave the safety of your compound in Canada

I don't live in a compound, Canada is a "free country", unlike what the USA is turning into.

Please continue to underestimate my knowledge.... I don't care...... anyway enjoy the day

Underestimate???? You don't have a fucking clue........and yes you care, otherwise you'd never have tried to defend your position of ignorance....You and Arpy should get together....

 

[Buffalogurl]

So now comes your back peddle.

The "Grid". What is the grid, do you have any fucking idea?

The best description is a joint set of electrical transmission systems. All governed by the same rules (NERC) With interconnections at boundaries. The "grid" is about the transmission of bulk energy. So in order for the "grid" to go down, all generators and transmission system need to fail. All at the same time. Then the local generation for peak loads and the local distribution systems they are connected to must go down. This peak generation also includes wind, solar and hydro......If the power isn't off in Ukraine, it's not going off in the USA.....

I don't live in a compound, Canada is a "free country", unlike what the USA is turning into.

Underestimate???? You don't have a fucking clue........and yes you care, otherwise you'd never have tried to defend your position of ignorance....You and Arpy should get together....

The word "grid" in generic, no, all that is needed to deny a nation of electricity is to disrupt the transportation of electricity, ie destruction of power transformers, distribution equipment ect.... as demonstrated in the first Iraqi War. The American airforce targeted the the electrical infrastructure ie.... "substations" switching equipment ect..... for all intents and purpose Iraq was dark.... for the better part of a year.... resulting in thousands of deaths, manly amongst children.....
Oh, you fail to declare whether or not you'll leave the safety of your home to work at resting the "grid" in a violent atmosphere (go figure) you just cherry pick......

 

[Buffalogurl]

Regarding survivalism:

One survivalist, Fernando "Ferfal" Aguirre, runs a blog called "Surviving in Argentina"[27] dedicated to his experiences with having lived in a developed country where a large-scale economic and societal collapse actually happened — Argentina, during that country's economic crisis in 2001-02 after the nation defaulted on its debt. His observations pointedly contradict many of the assumptions made by American survivalists:

• The logic of "bugging out" to a distant rural area to escape the chaos in the cities did not hold up in practice, as major cities like Buenos Aires and Cordoba were often the first places to see order and services restored. By contrast, rural survivalist compounds often found themselves outgunned and outnumbered by criminal gangs with nobody to help them for miles. Many such compounds were later discovered by the authorities looted and abandoned, sometimes with their would-be survivalist owners murdered.
• Government collapse is always temporary. By 2003, the crisis was over and Argentina's economy was booming again, partly as a result of the economic corrections triggered by the crisis.[note 5]
• Even at the height of the collapse, collective effort was often the most effective way for many working-class and former middle-class Argentineans to make a living, as demonstrated by the proliferation of worker-owned cooperatives.
• The rich, rather than being thrown from their lofty perch, got richer during and after the collapse — income inequality rose between 2001 and 2005, and at the height of the collapse the upper classes managed to defend their wealth by hiring armed private security.
• Likewise, the decadent pop culture and lifestyles that should have been swept away (according to American survivalists) were only reinforced. To give just one example, Argentinean TV studios and networks, reeling from the economic collapse, cut costs in any way they could and went for the cheapest programming they could find. Yup — the economic meltdown led to an explosive boom in trashy reality TV, and a similarly sharp decline in educational programming.

In short, total anarchy and a return to rural subsistence living failed to materialize even in the midst of a worst-case economic meltdown scenario.

The key statement is out gunned... you will not find myself or my neighbors "out gunned" against roving gangs.....
The cities all depended on a continuous supply of water, electricity and outside help......oh and an operating sewer system
Read about the seige of Sarajevo........

 

[Fuzzy1975]

The word "grid" in generic, no, all that is needed to deny a nation of electricity is to disrupt the transportation of electricity, ie destruction of power transformers, distribution equipment ect.... as demonstrated in the first Iraqi War. The American airforce targeted the the electrical infrastructure ie.... "substations" switching equipment ect..... for all intents and purpose Iraq was dark.... for the better part of a year.... resulting in thousands of deaths, manly amongst children.....

Iraqi's how many square miles? Iraqi's electrical grid consists of how many Generation plants? How many substations? ...and it took a whole air group of the US Air force, Navy and ground troops.....

you just cherry pick......

I did what now? You said I lived in a compound. I don't I live in a free society. I don't live in a society of fear, unlike you.

 

[Buffalogurl]

Iraqi's how many square miles? Iraqi's electrical grid consists of how many Generation plants? How many substations? ...and it took a whole air group of the US Air force, Navy and ground troops.....

I did what now? You said I lived in a compound. I don't I live in a free society. I don't live in a society of fear, unlike you.

Oh and Ukraine's electrical capacity was 56 gw. Is now at an estimated 9 gw. What's that 10%of original capacity?...
All by destroying just the transmission infrastructure ....

 

[Fuzzy1975]

The key statement is out gunned... you will not find myself or my neighbors "out gunned" against roving gangs.....
The cities all depended on a continuous supply of water, electricity and outside help......oh and an operating sewer system
Read about the seige of Sarajevo........

lol, you have no fucking idea of what will happen. I on the other hand have seen first hand what it's like to live in a country with No effective Government. Where War Lords all have their own little area's of control. Having to be protected by "Government" troops just to move around between government controlled areas.

There will be no bands of roving gangs after the first few months of your US apocalypse. The stronger, better lead groups will band together, secure resources and those outside, will then either join and submit, attack and win/die in the effort, or reach a territorial understanding.

You and neighbours will be killed or absorbed into those groups. Since you don't control anything of value. Land and livestock that's what you have, and after the first six months the livestock will be gone, the land meaningless and useless for you.

Farmers always rate low on the scale in society....just look at past history back to the medieval era.... who were the leaders? where did they live? Farmers, they were those rural serfs, subservient to the Lords and Ladies.....

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Oh and Ukraine's electrical capacity was 56 gw. Is now at an estimated 9 gw. What's that 10%of original capacity?...
All by destroying just the transmission infrastructure ....

Opps, deleted my reply, since I missed the goal post move.....

Yes Ukraine's electrical grid has sustained damage, plants damaged, or outright taken under Russia's control. But the power is still on. That is my point, taking down the grid is extremely difficult, because a "Grid" is very flexible. The US grid is a hundred times stronger, and if Russia can't destroy Ukraines grid, who the fuck is going to take down yours????

That kinda fucks your theory of destroying the US electrical Grid, now doesn't it?

 

[Buffalogurl]

lol, you have no fucking idea of what will happen. I on the other hand have seen first hand what it's like to live in a country with No effective Government. Where War Lords all have their own little area's of control. Having to be protected by "Government" troops just to move around between government controlled areas.

There will be no bands of roving gangs after the first few months of your US apocalypse. The stronger, better lead groups will band together, secure resources and those outside, will then either join and submit, attack and win/die in the effort, or reach a territorial understanding.

You and neighbours will be killed or absorbed into those groups. Since you don't control anything of value. Land and livestock that's what you have, and after the first six months the livestock will be gone, the land meaningless and useless for you.

Farmers always rate low on the scale in society....just look at past history back to the medieval era.... who were the leaders? where did they live? Farmers, they were those rural serfs, subservient to the Lords and Ladies.....

I actually agree with nearly all of what you have stated in this post...
That's what I was trying to convey about a near/complete collapse of the "grid".... the only deference in our thoughts are the level of venerablity of the "grid"..... I believe, as backed up by the evaluation of the FBI that a well coordinated terrorist attack of "sleeper cells" have the ability to disrupt to a very large extent the power "grid" as you well know about the "cascading effects" of a "collapsing grid" as demonstrated by past major power outages...... anyway enjoy your day

 

[LLCox]

The 2A was intended to facilitate a militia-based defense system. The FFs were leery of a large standing army for fear such could be used as an instrument of domestic rule, as armies typically were in Europe. The idea was the U.S. would have a small peacetime army, and in wartime the militia would be called up, and every man would bring his own musket from home. Highly anachronistic thinking now, but it seemed to make sense in the 18th Century, when no army had anything better than single-shot muzzle-loading muskets like civilians had.

But the militia was intended as an arm of the state, not as a countervailing force against it. The original text of the Constitution authorizes the president to command the militia, and the 2A does nothing to change that.

YOU are a liar

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

 

[Fuzzy1975]

I actually agree with nearly all of what you have stated in this post...

It's 100% accurate....

That's what I was trying to convey about a near/complete collapse of the "grid"....

No you're trying to claim the grid will collapse. But Buffy, that won't happen due to an insurgency. It might though through government ineptitude. But for that to happen, there would need to be decades of government neglect.

the only deference in our thoughts are the level of venerablity of the "grid".....

I don't have thoughts, I have knowledge and experience Buffy. What do you have? An article or two written by people who make money off survivalist nuts like yourself.

I believe, as backed up by the evaluation of the FBI

Post the link, anything the FBI has released publicly is available. Otherwise this is just more of your fucked up hatred of Biden. Remember this all started with you blaming Joe for something that will never happen.