Blacked vs. Bleached: Porn Industry Debate

[TheRedChamber]

As the old joke goes: "I don't think porn pays men very much. Whenever I go on PornHub all I see are these thirty-year-old guys still living at home with their step-moms."

But to your example its not easy finding younger male porn stars.

Years ago, I remember seeing an interview with the Great British porn director Ben Dover. His brand of gonzo films were incredibly English - from chavvy barmaids to (almost) posh totty, it was cheeky, usually shot in someone's terraced house's kitchen and completely different from the typical L.A. shoot. He was ask why, for someone whose whole brand was connected with a specific nationality, did he mainly use two foreign male porn stars - one Italian and one Belgian. His answer was that it was incredibly hard (pun still not intended) to find guys who could actually do the job - well-endowed doesn't necessarily mean stamina and while the first is easy enough to test for, how are you going to test for the second? We all know that stamina in the hand is different from stamina in the bush. And if you advertise the position of male porn star openly, how many applicants are you going to get?

 

[Kumquatqueen]

Years ago, I remember seeing an interview with the Great British porn director Ben Dover. His brand of gonzo films were incredibly English - from chavvy barmaids to (almost) posh totty, it was cheeky, usually shot in someone's terraced house's kitchen and completely different from the typical L.A. shoot. He was ask why, for someone whose whole brand was connected with a specific nationality, did he mainly use two male porn stars - one Italian and one British. His answer was that it was incredibly hard (pun still not intended) to find guys who could actually do the job - well-endowed doesn't necessarily mean stamina and while the first is easy enough to test for, how are you going to test for the second? We all know that stamina in the hand is different from stamina in the bush. And if you advertise the position of male porn star openly, how many applicants are you going to get?

I recall chatting with a female porn director who made feminist porn - it was meant to appeal to heterosexual women. And stylistically it was very good. But the only men she could find who were willing to be in a porn film for not much above min wage, and to fuck both women and men, were a pair of very scrawny lads who, bless them, weren't exactly hot, nor good at acting. And this was in Brighton so hardly a shortage of man-loving men!

I suspect she has better luck nowadays with a lot more chaps being happy to be on film, but 20 years ago there really was a shortage of male totty, even when they didn't need to have hard cocks for much of it. (I did ask my partner if he was interested, and I've never seen him so terrified! Even with his face masked! He did help with some scenery though.)

 

[SinclairGroupLLP]

Hmmm. The history of racial issues in the western world plays a role in people's fantasies which in turn affects porn and erotica. White males never had issues getting with black women or Indian women or Chinese women or Arabian women or native American women. The white woman had no say in a white males alliance with women of color. Since the 1990s, white women having sex with black men shocks and proceeded on titillating the masses across genres. The lure of the forbidden. As a bisexual black man, I've had sex with women and men of all races. I cannot forget the angry looks I got from white guys with black girlfriends...while l was holding hands with a white lady. Make of that what you will.

That was just because you’re Canadian, Sam.

 

[Samuelx]

Whatever. It is what it is.

 

[GuiltyCowboy]

An interesting question might be to ask exactly who this type of porn succeeds with? When we ask about success, we’re also asking ‘success with who?’

Is it safe to assume that the large majority of porn revenue is driven by white men? I have no idea. I would guess so. So maybe Blacked might succeed because of that and ‘Bleached’ might succeed (and succeed wildly) with a niche section of the porn audience, the non-white-male audience, but that might not show up in the overall data. No idea.

The historical power dynamics suggests that, where Blacked often has several black men overwhelming a white woman, ‘Bleached’ would succeed more with one white man imposing himself on several black women.

 

[ChloeTzang]

My poor hubby never stood a chance!

LOL. Mine neither, once I had him in my sights. LOL. Poor guy never knew what hit him until after he'd succumbed to temptation and by then it was far too late! He was enthralled. LOL.

......I cannot forget the angry looks I got from white guys with black girlfriends...while l was holding hands with a white lady. Make of that what you will.

On the inverse side of that, himself (who's white as snow) and moi don't get any negative reactions here at all, but when we went thru Singapore a few years ago on our way back from Oz, we did get a few dirty looks from Chinese guys. Funnily enough, not in Hong Kong tho. I guess here especially, but also in Australia, Asian-White interracial marriages are way more common than they were even twenty five years ago and when you go somewhere like San Francisco or Toronto, just about every Chinese family has a white son-in-law. LOL

 

[El Folo]

I've noticed in that when it comes to romance novels in the multicultural & interracial category, BWWM (Black Women-White Men) remains very popular. If you cross over into erotica, however, it's another story.

Give me some time and I'll try to counteract this.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I prefer Black Woman, White Woman, and they live happily ever after.

Give me some time and I'll try to counteract this.

 

[El Folo]

I prefer Black Woman, White Woman, and they live happily ever after.

Random idea: Two classical musicians meet, fall in love, and then their tangled splayed legs can be compared to piano keys. Ebony and ivory.

 

[bilash]

Here's a topic for debate: be it resolved that if the Vixen Group created a race-swapped version of Blacked/BlackedRaw (White male actors fucking Black female actresses in a franchise called "Bleached") that it would be commercially successful: Yes, it likely would / Neutral / No, it likely wouldn't.

For clarity, here are some general points:

• Let's assume that the hypothetical "Bleached" franchise is nearly identical to Blacked/BlackedRaw in all other aspects: same budget, same production values, same marketing efforts, same exotic shooting locations, same sex acts, same everything except for the races of the performers.
• This hypothetical franchise doesn't have to be AS successful as Blacked/BlackedRaw, that's unlikely; it just has to be financially successful in its own right.
• The popularity of interracial porn, specifically between Black men and White women, is undoubtedly a product of America's fraught history of race relations, and so the particular appeal of seeing hypersexual Black men laying hands on milky-skinned White women may or may not translate into demand for a race-swapped version of this dynamic.
• There's also a chicken & egg question here: do the high production values of Blacked/BlackedRaw drive their popularity, or does the popularity of this particular racial pairing justify the high production values? There's probably a virtuous (or vice-filled) cycle here, but if that's true, then the same may (or may not) be true if it were race-swapped.

So, what are your thoughts?

"if the Vixen Group created a race-swapped version of Blacked/BlackedRaw (White male actors fucking Black female actresses in a franchise called "Bleached") that it would be commercially successful"
--
Outside Usa or inside ? Speaking of Japan, its a taboo among jav(japanese adult video) producers to hire white caucasian males to perform with japanese women. Studios like s1, fitch, .....will never hire a man of white ethnicity. Why? ww2, gaijin hate etc. I've talked with some who are in the production industry, what they say is , the studio fears backlash from jav consumers aka the japanese customer base, as jav don't sell much outside japan , people outside japan just torrent it . There was a site named r18 to sell jav outside japan but it failed for issues( banks not allowing porn related .......)
Black-male-japanese-female is popular in japan among consumers. Now , consumers = male japanese , as women don't buy jav nowhere as much as men in japan.
What I say may sound racist , so forgive me, from what the guys involved in production of jav said to me, the black males , in the eyes of japanese consumers are like : foreign gaijin alien who are taller stronger than local japanese men, these bad tall strong aliens destroy purity of local pure kawaii japanese wives. You see most black-male-japanese-female porn are "ntr" aka netorare/cuckold category, very few are neto-rase or neto-ri.

Now, say , from youtube street interview or online available stats, when japanese women were asked about dating preference ( if they want to date foreigner) , white men were in top position. I've yet to see any interview where any random japanese women said she preferred black men.
Hey I am not trying to say anything rude, okay. You see, in japan, there's kawaii culture, they have this , "preference" for cute things.

White men japanese female porn , only Zenra dot com/net site has a few under "homestay" category. If women were among the most jav consumers in japan, wmjf could've been popular.

Nepal, pakistan, myanmar, India ; ex-colonies of British empire, especially in India, white skin tone is fetishized. Skin whitening products are popular among Indian men and women both. Wmaf / wmif porn would be a huge success here as people here in India has huge preference ( fetish) for white skin tone. I am not lying, you can ask any Indian friend if the local indian population make a big deal out of having fair/gouri/white skin tone.
From jobs to business to arrange marriage, just having white skin tone gives a person an extra 10 mile advantage.
So ,
if your target is to make money by making wmaf/wmif/wmxf erotica content, you have to chose target population / your consumers carefully , consider how to promote your content to that population.
Say, for India, it has to be Facebook page , yes facebook doesn't allow nsfw so the promoter of nsfw has to create pic/gif/short length videos where no direct PIV scene is involved, just basic foreplay to titilate the potential consumers. 2nd would be instagram .

 

[SerenaSteeleMonroe]

I cannot believe I just found this thread! Oh, my God! A Nubian God or Goddess with a white girl or boy is the most startling and stirring contrast. Nothing gets me hotter than watch, or better still fucking, a hung black man. A hung white guy with black girls is fine as well, but not the same. No, there aren't more hung black guys than white guys. But honestly, nothing looks bigger than an angry, long, fat black cock. White ones seem lost in the background unless it's dark and the light's on it. Even then, I like black better. Have you noticed how many black cocks are darker than the rest of the skin? Yes, I have or I wouldn't have mentioned it.

Apparently, the Japanese are as prejudiced as white dwebs, geeks, simps, incels, and red-necked religious right are here.

 

[SerenaSteeleMonroe]

So, to sum up my opinion, no on bleached and hells yes on blacked!

 

[calmlikeabomb]

Very bluntly, no, porn videos around the concept of Bleached won't do as well as Blacked.

And it's nothing to do with production values, but market dynamics. The consumers of interracial black man on white women porn are mostly white men with a very particular set of fantasies. In fact, the name itself (blacked) is indicative of the fact that the woman has the transformative act done to her.

In literature, however, the black/coloured woman with white man fantasy is becoming increasingly popular because most consumers are women, once again, with a very particular set of fantasies (which in this particular case, also involves showing the so called civilized white man how his culture isn't so civilized after all). In addition, it is usually the man who goes through the transformative act, while the woman usually has her spirit and nature reaffirmed. (Source: worked in the books industry and had to write a paper on soft erotica and legal compliance).

So the concept of Bleached is commercially in a strange middle ground between Blacked and POC focused female erotic literature. I'm not saying it won't draw any money, just that market forces are against it.

 

[Kasumi_Lee]

In literature, however, the black/coloured woman with white man fantasy is becoming increasingly popular because most consumers are women, once again, with a very particular set of fantasies (which in this particular case, also involves showing the so called civilized white man how his culture isn't so civilized after all). In addition, it is usually the man who goes through the transformative act, while the woman usually has her spirit and nature reaffirmed. (Source: worked in the books industry and had to write a paper on soft erotica and legal compliance).

I've always been puzzled/fascinated by the predominance of BWWM in the Interracial/Multicultural book category, but I've never investigated it too deeply. I did read that the most popular fantasy for women is taming a dangerous handsome man, which fits neatly into the idea of transforming the male love interest. Is this paper you wrote available online or was it an in-house research project?

 

[calmlikeabomb]

I've always been puzzled/fascinated by the predominance of BWWM in the Interracial/Multicultural book category, but I've never investigated it too deeply. I did read that the most popular fantasy for women is taming a dangerous handsome man, which fits neatly into the idea of transforming the male love interest. Is this paper you wrote available online or was it an in-house research project?

In house, for the consumption of legal counsels (external and internal) and global leadership, so under heavy NDAs. Which is sad, because I was actually quite proud of that paper.

Regarding BWWM, well, through the ages, the ideal fantasy interest for women has been a mix of dangerous and vulnerable (a man with a scar who struggles with telling you how much he can't bear to be without you). Modern BWWM and it's ilk have however, taken it one step further as a commentary on the idea of the Civilized White Man, and how he isn't actually as civilized as it seems, and it's the women's strength, femininity, inherent wisdom and roots that actually transform the Uncivilized, Civilized White Man.

Of course, there is another twist on this which has picked up steam, where the woman is the rogue and the man is the ingenue, and in these cases, writers re-emphasize the woman's "rebellious" qualities as what brings the man out of his shell. In essence, glorifying her "feminine wildness and energy" without objectifying it, and transforming the man.

 

[SinclairGroupLLP]

Of course, there is another twist on this which has picked up steam, where the woman is the rogue and the man is the ingenue, and in these cases, writers re-emphasize the woman's "rebellious" qualities as what brings the man out of his shell. In essence, glorifying her "feminine wildness and energy" without objectifying it, and transforming the man.

Just like in Napoleon Dynamite, where Lafawnduh turns Kip into a cool dude by the end of the movie.

 

[Kasumi_Lee]

In house, for the consumption of legal counsels (external and internal) and global leadership, so under heavy NDAs. Which is sad, because I was actually quite proud of that paper.

That's a shame.

Regarding BWWM, well, through the ages, the ideal fantasy interest for women has been a mix of dangerous and vulnerable (a man with a scar who struggles with telling you how much he can't bear to be without you). Modern BWWM and it's ilk have however, taken it one step further as a commentary on the idea of the Civilized White Man, and how he isn't actually as civilized as it seems, and it's the women's strength, femininity, inherent wisdom and roots that actually transform the Uncivilized, Civilized White Man.

I love that idea! It kind of reminds me of parts of the Epic of Gilgamesh. Gilgamesh is a tyrannical king who preys on his people, and in particular practices prima noctis on the women of the city he rules over, so the gods send a wild man called Enkidu to bring Gilgamesh to heel. Enkidu is Human, but he lives like a wild animal and all his companions are animals, he's even fast enough to keep up with the gazelles across the plains. So the gods send a divine harlot (that's what the translation says) to tame him. She finds him by the watering hole and disrobes in front of him, seducing him into seven days and seven nights of sex, and thereby "civilizing" him.

It's kind of an ambivalent transformation, because suddenly Enkidu's animal companions are afraid of him and he's no longer able to keep up with them on foot, so he's lost his connection to nature. But at the same time, he's learnt the arts of speech and culture, turning him into an actual Human being. That's when he's told about Gilgamesh and goes to the city to confront him.

 

[calmlikeabomb]

That's a shame.

I love that idea! It kind of reminds me of parts of the Epic of Gilgamesh. Gilgamesh is a tyrannical king who preys on his people, and in particular practices prima noctis on the women of the city he rules over, so the gods send a wild man called Enkidu to bring Gilgamesh to heel. Enkidu is Human, but he lives like a wild animal and all his companions are animals, he's even fast enough to keep up with the gazelles across the plains. So the gods send a divine harlot (that's what the translation says) to tame him. She finds him by the watering hole and disrobes in front of him, seducing him into seven days and seven nights of sex, and thereby "civilizing" him.

It's kind of an ambivalent transformation, because suddenly Enkidu's animal companions are afraid of him and he's no longer able to keep up with them on foot, so he's lost his connection to nature. But at the same time, he's learnt the arts of speech and culture, turning him into an actual Human being. That's when he's told about Gilgamesh and goes to the city to confront him.

OMG ANOTHER LITERARY NERD! YAY!

And yeah, exactly like that. You will find traces of this in many mythological stories and literature, both from the POV of the male gaze and the female gaze.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Men, men, men, what about us lesbians? Come on, give a girl a break from all the disgusting cock talk!

 

[Britva415]

Men, men, men, what about us lesbians? Come on, give a girl a break from all the disgusting cock talk!

Is interracial porn much in demand by lesbians?

If so, is “black top/white bottom” any more or less popular than “white top/black bottom?”

And is either of those more or less popular than “everybody switches?”

 

[CyranoJ]

Here's a topic for debate: be it resolved that if the Vixen Group created a race-swapped version of Blacked/BlackedRaw (White male actors fucking Black female actresses in a franchise called "Bleached") that it would be commercially successful: Yes, it likely would / Neutral / No, it likely wouldn't.

Nope. There's no real sense of taboo in white dudes getting it on with other races (for example, when Trump's regime reintroduces anti-miscegenation laws in year three, they are certain to punish the woman in any such pairing, not the man). The profitability of I/R is based on the senses of the taboo that go with a specific racial caste system.

 

[calmlikeabomb]

Men, men, men, what about us lesbians? Come on, give a girl a break from all the disgusting cock talk!

I remember Blacked had a lesbian scene (can't remember the name of the performers) and it was hot as hell.

 

[calmlikeabomb]

Nope. There's no real sense of taboo in white dudes getting it on with other races (for example, when Trump's regime reintroduces anti-miscegenation laws in year three, they are certain to punish the woman in any such pairing, not the man). The profitability of I/R is based on the senses of the taboo that go with a specific racial caste system.

There is when you look at it from the POV of someone else. @bilash for instance raised some very good points about JAV. Even in India, desi girls who are expected to marry a nice desi boy (because foreigners are impure) have taboo fantasies about white dudes.

 

[TheRedChamber]

The weirdest Japanese porn video I've ever seen (and obviously thats saying something) was of an obviously Japanese male performer perving on the stereotypical kawaii schoolgirl and all the time he was wearing a blonde wig and big false nose and speaking in both broken English and Japanese. Basically pretending to be the worst possible 'gaijin' but with the acting and production values the industry is known for. Utterly bizarre but possibly there was a humour in it that as an outsider I missed.

Anyway fair enough, it makes up for that Bond film where Sean Connery had surgery so he could pass as Japanese...

 

[CyranoJ]

There is when you look at it from the POV of someone else. @bilash for instance raised some very good points about JAV. Even in India, desi girls who are expected to marry a nice desi boy (because foreigners are impure) have taboo fantasies about white dudes.

I mean, okay, I could see it being profitable in India on those grounds, maybe? Depending on how prevalent that really is. Not in the North American market, though.