The death of Europe.

[BrightShinyGirl]

That would be an interesting test. But the States were stripped of any powers regarding immigration, foreign trade, and control of the Executive Branch of government.

Donald Trump has no recourse if the state governors just ignore him.

 

[Rebel5soul]

Donald Trump has no recourse if the state governors just ignore him.

Oh but he does, very ugly recourse.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Oh but he does, very ugly recourse.

What do you think Donald Trump will do if state governors just ignore his illegal orders?

 

[Rebel5soul]

What do you think Donald Trump will do if state governors just ignore his illegal orders?

First of all you now thrown in the qualifier "illegal." His orders are quite legal under Federal law, Supremacy clause in article VI of the Constitution. There are many things to be sorted out and nothing is over until the SCOTUS speaks.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

First of all you now thrown in the qualifier "illegal." His orders are quite legal under Federal law, Supremacy clause in article VI of the Constitution. There are many things to be sorted out and nothing is over until the SCOTUS speaks.

Donald Trump has no recourse if state governors simply refuse to obey his orders. That's the beauty of the United States being a federal republic. Trump can cry to the Supreme Court all he wants, he's shit out of luck.

 

[Rebel5soul]

Donald Trump has no recourse if state governors simply refuse to obey his orders. That's the beauty of the United States being a federal republic. Trump can cry to the Supreme Court all he wants, he's shit out of luck.

You keep saying that. In the worst case he can declare the State(s) in a state of rebellion, invoke martial law, and do away with the governor(s) and legislator(s). Very high risk politics, but quite doable.

 

[Rebel5soul]

The Fall of Germany.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

You keep saying that. In the worst case he can declare the State(s) in a state of rebellion, invoke martial law, and do away with the governor(s) and legislator(s). Very high risk politics, but quite doable.

The state governors and legislators were elected by the people of the state. The President has no authority to "do away" with them. Donald Trump is powerless to impose his will on a state that resists him. However if he tries, Congress has power to impeach him and remove him from office.

 

[Rebel5soul]

Returning to the Federal Republic issue.

 

[Rebel5soul]

The state governors and legislators were elected by the people of the state. The President has no authority to "do away" with them. Donald Trump is powerless to impose his will on a state that resists him. However if he tries, Congress has power to impeach him and remove him from office.

Not paying attention, are you? You missed the whole "state of rebellion" deal.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Not paying attention, are you? You missed the whole "state of rebellion" deal.

Refusing to follow the orders of a rogue President is not a "state of rebellion". The states are part of a union governed by the Constitution, not subject to the whims of a President operating outside the law. The federal nature of the United States severely curtails Donald Trump's powers.

 

[Rebel5soul]

Refusing to follow the orders of a rogue President is not a "state of rebellion". The states are part of a union governed by the Constitution, not subject to the whims of a President operating outside the law. The federal nature of the United States severely curtails Donald Trump's powers.

See, you're still not paying attention and are marching to the narrative of who ever is feeding you the shit you think is true. Everything is playing out exactly as it was planned and exactly as it should.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Refusing to follow the orders of a rogue President is not a "state of rebellion". The states are part of a union governed by the Constitution, not subject to the whims of a President operating outside the law. The federal nature of the United States severely curtails Donald Trump's powers.

I would love to see the how this would even in theory play out legally. Ultimately I think you have undo trust in the military if you think they are gonna choose a piece of paper over a flesh and blood man.

 

[Rebel5soul]

I would love to see the how this would even in theory play out legally. Ultimately I think you have undo trust in the military if you think they are gonna choose a piece of paper over a flesh and blood man.

The narrative she's pitching here is called "Nullification Theory." It's not new and has always failed when the rubber meets the road.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I get her theory but even under ideal circumstances I don't see this playing out well. Shy of Trump just saying shoot everybody or something I'm not sure how much I trust those young folk to do the right thing even if its obviously the right thing.

 

[Rebel5soul]

I get her theory but even under ideal circumstances I don't see this playing out well. Shy of Trump just saying shoot everybody or something I'm not sure how much I trust those young folk to do the right thing even if its obviously the right thing.

What is the "right thing?" If you have an idea you have to sell it in the court of public opinion. If you can't do that then maybe it's not the "right thing."

 

[Sean Renaud]

What is the "right thing?" If you have an idea you have to sell it in the court of public opinion. If you can't do that then maybe it's not the "right thing."

You have to sell it to the military. Court of public opinion seems likely to to along with it. I would argue, at least in the United States that the right thing is following the Constitution.

 

[PersonalFavors]

The state governors and legislators were elected by the people of the state. The President has no authority to "do away" with them. Donald Trump is powerless to impose his will on a state that resists him. However if he tries, Congress has power to impeach him and remove him from office.

The state governors and legislators were elected by the people of the state. Not my state. Your state does not have power over my state. You best know whose side you are on. Minority will not win. Check with the fat guy in Iowa.

 

[Sean Renaud]

The state governors and legislators were elected by the people of the state. Not my state. Your state does not have power over my state. You best know whose side you are on. Minority will not win. Check with the fat guy in Iowa.

I don't know what state you're from but Bush back in the day was pretty damn sure that California DOES have power over other states and correctly checked us. I'm not a huge fan of states to begin with but economies matter.

 

[PersonalFavors]

What do you think Donald Trump will do if state governors just ignore his illegal orders?

DJT has not done anything illegal. Nor has he given any “orders”. DJT is commander in chief, not a dictator or general.
States have every right to not comply with any type of directive the President may serve. However, their expectation of what comes there way from the federal government may vary. Check Maine out. That ding dong FA’d and FO’d. She won’t be back.

 

[Rebel5soul]

DJT has not done anything illegal. Nor has he given any “orders”. DJT is commander in chief, not a dictator or general.
States have every right to not comply with any type of directive the President may serve. However, their expectation of what comes there way from the federal government may vary. Check Maine out. That ding dong FA’d and FO’d. She won’t be back.

And what made that memorable was that Trump said that to her face, he's not a back stabber.

 

[Lance_Castro]

That is not a "talking point." It is a philosophical concept that goes all the way back to the state forced suicide/murder of Socrates.

Okay, it’s one philosophical concept.

One of many.

I see this thread has finished up talking about Europe’s “death” and has moved on to the death of States.

You’re such an optimist!

Will all forms of government die while Trump’s at the wheel?

Lol

 

[Celand]

They do the things that make Charles Martel puke.

..... and turning in his grave !!

 

[Lance_Castro]

The OECD is saying TrumpTariffs will be bad for US , Can and Mex….and good for China and Europe.

( Reuters)” Summary

OECD lowers global growth forecast due to trade tensions

Tariff hikes to impact US, Canada, Mexico growth and inflation

China's growth forecast raised, euro area seen gaining momentum”

 

[Hel_Books]

Not unstable, just sick of the free riding, holier than thou, Europeans.

I won't disagree with you about the free-riding Europeans. They skimped on defence spending, which could have encouraged Putin to think he could get away with dismembering Ukraine.

And who knows? With President Trump's erratic behaviour, maybe Putin will end up keeping part of the Ukraine. And then, who's next . . . ?

Seriously, though, you have to admit, President Musk and his sock puppet Donald Trump do seem to be rather unstable. For example, doing a "keyword search" to rid the department of defence of anything gay and . . . deleting references to the Enola Gay. Or, confusing "transgenic" with "transgender" when condemning research on transgenic mice. Or getting rid of interior department scientists with experience working on the Colorado River just as the water resources in the area are at risk from drought. Or threatening to annex Canada. Or firing air traffic controllers just as a spate of accidents indicates the system may be overstretched. Or firing the energy department people in charge of watching over the nuclear weapons (and then re-hiring them in embarrassment). Or cutting healthcare to veterans (instead of going after the insurance, pharma and medical fraudsters). Or getting rid of IRS staffers so his rich friends can more easily cheat on their taxes. Or slapping tariffs on allies of the USA, then rescinding them, then rescinding the recission, then saying, yes, this may cause a recession but he (who has a comfortable amount of personal funds left, despite all those bankrupt casinos and other businesses) is OK with the pain that will cause his countrymen. Or cutting off Voice-Of-America (you know, the people that broadcast to China and give them an alternative to the communist party line!).